Remember where we came from?

[Bumi]

Also, just to add my two cents.

My grandmother remembers the Model T. She's told many a tales of the glorious times she had speeding down unpaved roads at 15mph. That doesn't sate her disappointment in the unreliable trash that is her brand new, seldom driven, 2012 Dodge Charger RT. I believe it's at the dealership now. And no, "you don't know how hard it is to build a reliable vehicle" isn't an acceptable excuse.

In other words, my expectations of a particular product are in line with the available technology of the present.

Madden is so bad, uninspired, primitive, and stale that it hardly passes as a simulation of NFL football. I'm tired of the excuses. The limits of my indulgence have long been reached. I've seen enough from other genres, including genres within the EA family(Fifa 12, Battlefield 3) that I know more is and would be possible from an innovative, hungry, and inspired development team.

And no, I'm not convinced Madden/football is more difficult to develop than say... Battlefield 3/War simulators. Which contains a larger play area, more characters in a game/match(24 on consoles. 64 on PC), has far more happenings on screens at once, and possesses superior visuals(That are destructible) and sounds. The real difference is? Battlefield has competition, and competition breeds excellence.

It is the year 2012; we have cars that can drive themselves, drones that fly themselves, bombs that can level cities, phones that are hand held computers, we have the ability to clone people and animals, and send people beyond the heavens, yet I still can't throw a touch pass in the soft spot of a zone between the LB and safety.

[Bumi]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

Why on earth would anyone buy a game with rudimentary gameplay?

For the same reason some people eat roman noodles as opposed to steak. Because there are times when you are hungry, and though steak is obviously the more appealing option, roman noodles is all you have. And so you endure.

[Bumi]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Can't say we completely agree or disagree - but that might just be the hyperbole. LOL I've loved Madden since the first time I played and had to give up the sticks at 21-0. But Madden '06 didn't feel like Madden on any system. QB Vision, innovative as it was, just felt wrong for Madden on PS2 and NG Madden didn't feel like Madden at all. I often describe it with an analogy about a wife of many years coming home one day with a gender reassignment surprise. You might still care deeply for her well being, but you might not want to 'play' anymore. LOL I won't say the devs are lazy or incompetent because I've met some of them. Most of them are passionate, hard working, and concerned about delivering a product each of us can be proud to buy, play, and enjoy. But there are about 5-million of us. Satisfying 5-millon eaches is hard. Add that to the programming challenges inate to representing 11 intelligent football realistic collisions is virtually impossible. In fact, it's NEVER BEEN DONE. There have been games that pleased their clients, but their volume wasn't nearly as large. It's like Mac's vs PC's before Macs advertised. 5% of the market isn't going to complain like 95% will considering the 5% buy for specific reasons. I've played both Head Coach games briefly and thought they were good games. Not my cup of tea, but they seemed great for people who aren't interested in controlling the on field action directly... IMO, Madden has too much on the disc. Too broad a market to satisfy with only one game. Franchise used to be an Add-on mode, now it's graduated but a coach-only game isn't going to compete with Madden as long as a similar mode is on Madden with game-play included. I'd love to see HC with a rudimentary 'gameplay' mode where players can control the action (coach mode is default) - with Madden's Franchise features getting the attention only a separate title can get. Add a play editor that can import custom plays to Madden for online play and I'd buy BOTH. Madden on the other hand should be user-control heavy - with an optional coach mode. But as long as Madden has a Franchise mode, HC will have dismal sales numbers. Maybe they should Market them as "Madden NFL" and "Madden Franchise" and "Madden Blitz" It would be a far better use of the exclusive license on the NFL and the use of Madden's name... EA has tried to give us choices - their just too scared to upset the name recognition. Later

It's not hard to appease 5 million NFL fans/gamers. You give them a game that is a realistic simulation of NFL football, and not a glorified arcade game that disguises itself as such. The market isn't "broad" at all.

[Bumi]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Ever heard that "a jack of all trades is a master of none." The reasons the modes aren't as good as we think - regardless of which mode it is - is because there's too much going on. I'm sure that if EA's Madden team had 6 years to develop any single aspect of the game, it would be incredible. But they can't - so they aren't. Later

Why don't the Fifa, NBA2k, MLB The Show, or even the EA NHL development teams require such excuses? Why are the current iterations of each heralded as the best their respective genres have ever seen?

Note that each of the above titles weren't always considered the best offerings of their genres. Fifa was driven by Pro Evolution. NBA2k By NBA Live. MLB the Show... Well, I guess they weren't content with delivering a porous product, and EA NHL hockey battled against their 2k counterpart.

[pegout]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bumi

Why don't the Fifa, NBA2k, MLB The Show, or even the EA NHL development teams require such excuses? Why are the current iterations of each heralded as the best their respective genres have ever seen? Note that each of the above titles weren't always considered the best offerings of their genres. Fifa was driven by Pro Evolution. NBA2k By NBA Live. MLB the Show... Well, I guess they weren't content with delivering a porous product, and EA NHL hockey battled against their 2k counterpart.

right on most of these but didnt live fails like 3 years ago? since then nba2k has gotten better(added my player)and ever year said mode's gotten better,i just dont buy that having 2k make a football game will push madden over the top(imo 2k wasnt that great) but i guess im just a madden fanboy

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bumi

The market isn't "broad" at all.

Really?

I've studied online football gaming communities for as long as I've been on the internet (1995) with a concentration on the Madden communities since November 2002. I can't speak for any other sports gaming community, but there more than 35 Madden websites, each with it's own Madden flavor. And these are just the ones I know about.

Later

[Bumi]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Really? I've studied online football gaming communities for as long as I've been on the internet (1995) with a concentration on the Madden communities since November 2002. I can't speak for any other sports gaming community, but there more than 35 Madden websites, each with it's own Madden flavor. And these are just the ones I know about. Later

Madden is a sports simulator. It attempts to mimic the realities of NFL football. Keep it as close to the source material as possible and people with interest in the game will be pleased. Give them trash and they'll treat it as such.

The demographics may be, but the market isn't broad. Give us a realistic NFL experience or call the game something else.

[pegout]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bumi

Madden is a sports simulator. It attempts to mimic the realities of NFL football. Keep it as close to the source material as possible and people with interest in the game will be pleased. Give them trash and they'll treat it as such. The demographics may be, but the market isn't broad. Give us a realistic NFL experience or call the game something else.

Maybe im wrong but madden is a football video game. I never heard them say it was a"sim"