TSS @ Madden 13 Community Day

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by AzureEffect

I say this all the time in most of my critiquing videos. In the video that was posted at the beginning of this thread people in the TSS Community (and some probably just random commenters) are acting as if I got on the video and said "OMG THIS IS IT YOU GUYS, THE BEST MADDEN EVER WILL BE M13". I was very melancholy and just gave my impressions and people took that inch and ran a mile.

Yes sir.

I continue to emphasize that most (if not all) of the impression-like posts I've seen on OS have been well balanced. TNT gave two sides to the coin, as has Casey (CMLeague) and others. I've dropped a couple one-liners, but those have mostly been directed at posters I'm really familiar with (Bronco86, Roadman, etc).

Regardless, it's still taken as hyping up the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Imo it's no longer a huge accomplishment for the game to improve on it's previous year - that should've long been an expectation.

From this perspective, what do they need to accomplish to get right in your eyes? If improvement isn't enough year to year, what is?

All games w/ sequels are expected to improve upon their predecessors. That's what NBA2K does, and it's what The Show does. Why isn't this acceptable for Madden?

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I thought Phobia and Roadman put it well in terms of where expectations should be, regardless if there are a few CD guys out there showing a little more giddiness.

I think this is a falsehood my man. Again, I think the impressions have overall been balanced. For every post that's said, "You'll be pleased," there's another post that says, "Not everything each of us wanted is going to get in." Even those that PMd me should have seen evidence of that balance. No one has been sold a dream...

[Phobia]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

From this perspective, what do they need to accomplish to get right in your eyes? If improvement isn't enough year to year, what is? All games w/ sequels are expected to improve upon their predecessors. That's what NBA2K does, and it's what The Show does. Why isn't this acceptable for Madden?

Yea this is true, but the fact remains is the improvements enough to warrant another 60 dollars a year later.

Another words lets for example say Madden 12 did the presentation and improved tackling. Then Madden 13 comes out has the updated roster and adds new commentary and refined the tackling engine slightly more.

Does these changes warrant a 60 dollar purchase? While it is a improvement over the year before, does it supply enough.

This has been the issue with Madden for many years and where the whole "Updated roster & 1 new back of box feature" came from. People started stating this back in like 07. So while the franchise has continue to improve on the 06 created engine and next gen madden. It has been a slow and long road to get where we are.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

...All games w/ sequels are expected to improve upon their predecessors. That's what NBA2K does, and it's what The Show does. Why isn't this acceptable for Madden?

Many, including myself, feel those other 2 games are much closer simulations of their respective sports. Personally, I'm happy with year to year improvements from those games. Not the case with Madden.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phobia

Yea this is true, but the fact remains is the improvements enough to warrant another 60 dollars a year later.

I understand where you're coming from, but Spank's thoughts come from a different place .

His position has been that the game isn't judged fairly, and gets a lot of breaks.

I'm simply questioning why are general improvements acceptable for other sports games, but not for Madden? The idea that they're 7 or so years behind is tired at this point, no? It's not like 7 years can be made up in one cycle, so what's the expectation?

[Phobia]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I understand where you're coming from, but Spank's thoughts come from a different place . His position has been that the game isn't judged fairly, and gets a lot of breaks. I'm simply questioning why are general improvements acceptable for other sports games, but not for Madden? The idea that they're 7 or so years behind is tired at this point, no? It's not like 7 years can be made up in one cycle, so what's the expectation?

The expectation is simple, make something that has better presentation than 2k5(known excellent presentation with halftime shows, draft reports, etc), deeper franchise than ever before, and the most realistic recreation of the game we watch on Sunday. Honestly that is what the expectation is and why people are never happy each and every year. People who love baseball or basketball as their first sport love have excellent choices for their sports gaming. Where football lovers are left with a mediocre experience that has numerous lack luster things. Bottom line is people finally wanna be WOWED by EA Football.

[bigsmallwood]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I understand where you're coming from, but Spank's thoughts come from a different place . His position has been that the game isn't judged fairly, and gets a lot of breaks. I'm simply questioning why are general improvements acceptable for other sports games, but not for Madden? The idea that they're 7 or so years behind is tired at this point, no? It's not like 7 years can be made up in one cycle, so what's the expectation?

I believe that someof their issues can easily be fixed in one cycle. Issues such as presentation, commentary, player weight, etc. Everything does not warrant a 3 year wait. (dev cycle)

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

From this perspective, what do they need to accomplish to get right in your eyes? If improvement isn't enough year to year, what is? All games w/ sequels are expected to improve upon their predecessors. That's what NBA2K does, and it's what The Show does. Why isn't this acceptable for Madden?

Because Madden is so much further behind those titles. That's a personal opinion, but I think most people feel Madden has to improve in a LOT of areas to get where those games are. If we took a poll right now and said "Would you take the NBA2K or The Show NFL-equivalent over Madden?", they'd win in a landslide imo. So if all the games improve in the same increments over their predecessors, Madden would continue to lag behind in terms of perceived overall quality. Since M09 the series has consistently improved, but because it actually devolved in '06-'08, incremental improvements aren't saying much. I could sit here and easily make the argument that something as basic as the system of movement Madden has now is inferior to what was being done back in the PS2 years. I looked at that vid someone posted about the mirroring of routes in current Madden; it's not a hard case to make. Imo you really can't make that type of argument with most other sports games.

This isn't to slam Madden/Tiburon in any way. I'm just stating my opinion of where I think the title is; don't want the conversation to deteriorate to garbage

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I think this is a falsehood my man. Again, I think the impressions have overall been balanced. For every post that's said, "You'll be pleased," there's another post that says, "Not everything each of us wanted is going to get in." Even those that PMd me should have seen evidence of that balance. No one has been sold a dream...

I said I hadn't read every thread from the CD guys. But in this very thread:

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

6 months from now I encourage you to come back and ask me why I'm cautiously smiling. Like I said previously in other threads, if they get it right... The roof blows off the sports gaming community. If they don't, I will be the first to say it and I won't be happy.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but saying "the roof blows off the sports community" IF they get it right is pretty highbar. Of course the caveats of IFs and BUTs and SUITS are always thrown out there, but still that's a pretty big statement for anyone to make imo. But because I know some of the guys didn't have many problems with Madden to begin with, I'll take what's said with a kool-aid spoon of salt

[AzureEffect]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Off-topic, I'd love to have the debate on this view that Total Customization ANYTHING would work in this day, other than the maybe 500 people that'd take advantage of it. I don't think it's wise to base the success of a product off of how well it can mimic something else. Ultimately once that something else is right, there's no need for the product. It's a very selfish view. There's a reason there isn't a good GENERIC basketball game, or a good GENERIC baseball game, a good GENERIC soccer game, etc. People want the licensed game. OS had a column where the writer questioned NBA2K's initial lack of interest on the quality of the game. NBA lockout ends (coupled with great team play and Jeremy Lin interest) and sales rise. The view that most people would jump on a great playing unlicensed game is a falsehood. But a debate for another time /off topic

So lets just say you are at a party and you are talking to the finest woman in the club; in walks a celebrity who takes the attention of the young woman...Do you just walk away and say "Ah forget it; Im going home" or do you find the "NEXT" finest woman in the club who isnt "smitten" by the celebrity? Probably a terrible analogy but try to catch my drift as I think this is just a problem in America with it being "all about the money" not realizing that if you have a great product, ideas, etc the rest will take care of itself. In this particular case, if you have a great game no matter if it is branded by the NFL or not; there's a niche for you.

Backbreaker is a BAD example because no matter how innovative Real Time Physics was...the game was missing some key elements that wouldve really helped it succeed but see the general public judged NaturalMotion in the same boat with EA and that wasn't fair at all seeing as NM just appeared and EA has been around for 20+ years making Football titles.

I think one of the only companies that could really give EA a run for its money in producing a Football game is 2K and I think because of the history between the two companies that EA knows that and so does 2K.

No guts, no glory....in this case, no license = No game.