Why Madden NEEDS a defensive commit

[justud]

great article on the sportsgaming blog. funny too.

http://spgmg.blogspot.com/2012/03/wh...ve-commit.html

[Broncos86]

Kinda like how NCAA has a defensive commit already?

[LBzrule]

No it does not need another micromanage component that should be tied to player behavior. They need to write the A.I so that players READ AND REACT, which is something that NCAA is touting.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

No it does not need another micromanage component that should be tied to player behavior. They need to write the A.I so that players READ AND REACT, which is something that NCAA is touting.

Wasup buddy Im kind of on the fence on what your stating. I see to a point where your coming from, but at the same time. We both played football and we know there are times where the defense decides what to look for, and if guessing wrong can make the defense look bad or good if guessed correctly.

I'm 100% cool with the option of letting your defense know what to look for as long as it is done in a way that it is not a automatic stop of the play, but something more of the defense's 1st action towards the play. After that it should all come down to match ups, and play calling.

I always felt it should have been setup where you can tell your defense the following.

Run
Pass
Screen play
Draw

This still leaves the whole read and react system into play.

[BezO]

Tyrant, I think they need to get the basics right before adding on options. Madden still doesn't have run fits. LBs still step towards their zone assignment prior to reacting to the run. There's no upfield rush from the DEs. Then let's get some individual tendencies. And so on...

Let EA get the basic assignments & animations in before reintroducing run/pass commits.

[Big FN Deal]

To piggyback on what Bezo and LBz are saying, I think it's easy for any of us to have the tendency to base what we want in Madden off of the limited football parameters Madden has ever offered. I even suggested this same premise for Madden some time back due to the fact that it was in past Maddens and it would be an improvement over now. However, something like this would be yet another band-aid and addressing a symptom, not the problem, imo.

What Bezo and LBz are addressing is the root problem which is individual players not diagnosing plays based on ratings and the overall lacking defensive adaptive AI. If these are addressed then defensive commit or some artificial "shortcut" for representing what defenses should key on, are no longer necessary because it will be inherent in the program.

For example, it's not very often that the entire defensive "sniffs" out a screen pass or draw, even if it's just completely been abused and telegraphed, so it should be individual players "keying" in on those reads, when applicable.

In the cases where a player is just completely telegraphing or abusing a single play, like a draw or screen pass, the adaptive AI should cause those specific players that are assigned to contain or adjust, to do so, according to their ratings. This inherently allows the chance for not only individual AI/CPU controlled defenders to potentially "blow up" the play but also for them to be setup. Likewise, part of the risk/reward of User control should be the gamer able to gamble with that ONE player, based on what they think they see, not the whole team.

To be technical, the shading, individual blitzing adjustment, etc are mostly just band-aids/shortcuts to compensate for those lacking areas too, imo. Madden is a byproduct of the domino effect of substituting realism for "fun" in one area and having to repeat that process in another area to compensate.

I don't want to type out some long diatribe about how this one key area, read and reaction, can lead to so much more inherent realism in Madden but suffice to say it's affects can touch the offensive/defensive play calling, gameplanning, personnel moves, penalties and other general risk/reward gameplay parameters, way beyond that of defensive commit.

[Senator Palmer]

I see both sides of this argument. There's nothing realistic about mashing 10 different button combos to create a defense. You should never have to tell your defensive line to pass rush on 3rd and 18. You should never have to tell your corners to sit down at the sticks on 3rd and 6 instead of dropping 10 yards into a zone and just watch the receiver stop in front of them. As Big pointed out, individual shading, etc. is just band aide solutions. Ideally, those things should be built into the call, and it seems that's where Ian wanted to go from what he hinted in his posts, but there was a lot of push back from the "Madden ballers."

BUT, I do like having control on the fly when I see something, and I would like a more comprehensive way to communicate with my defense that goes beyond changing playart, like when a game gets out of hand, I'd like a "sideline coaching feature", the way 2k basketball has the clip board and be able to tell my line to pin their ears back and rush, or keep their lanes and contain rush if I'm playing against a Vick or Newton.

Ideally, what I'd like to do is a lot more complex and would involve creating a real gameplan tailored to each opponent that would have real keys, disguised coverages, etc. but I'd settle for something along the lines of what NCAA Football does.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Senator Palmer

BUT, I do like having control on the fly when I see something, and I would like a more comprehensive way to communicate with my defense that goes beyond changing playart, like when a game gets out of hand, I'd like a "sideline coaching feature", the way 2k basketball has the clip board and be able to tell my line to pin their ears back and rush, or keep their lanes and contain rush if I'm playing against a Vick or Newton.

Yeah, I like your more complex/involved/tactical version instead of just everyone run D or everyone pass D.

Tyrant's idea is a good idea to at least flesh it out to more a couple of the "deception" plays on offense.

But this post - I'd love this. Much more like true coaching and in-game adjustments that happens every Sunday based on tempo, flow, and overall game situation. This is what I want more of in Madden.