What is a fair trade?

[mjhyankees]

Quote: Originally Posted by petersondagreat

I just traded Cortland finnagan and jason jones to the texans for JJ Watt and Jason allen thoughts?

I'm tainted here by real life. Finnegan was a free agent and the TExans traded Mario Williams...why would they give up their other DE? in real life this never ever happens...teams don't do 4 player trades in the NFl...baseball maybe. IMO Texans don't give up either of these guys for anyone other than a superstar at the same position.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by mjhyankees

Obviously you'd have to give up your 30 and probably a 2nd and or 3rd rounder as well since you are in th 30 spot. It would help if you had an early 2nd rounder...i can't imagine why a team would give up a 12 so they could draft at the end of the round 2 or 3 times. I would try to send them a player they need (say they are weak at DT and you a guy who's 80+....give him and your first and second round..then in real life a team may say...gee we filled a need that we'd have to draft for anyway and get some extra picks.

Funny you mention a DT.

I have a good, young, 4-3 type DT but am looking to convert to the 3-4. I know in Madden, it doesn't really matter, but this guy is more in the Tommy Harris type mold, but I need a Ngata type for the NT spot. I have a young kid in mind on the team (23 with 98 STR), and might grab one in the draft, so I could afford to deal.

This kid is 93/A already with 93 AWR and is only 23 years old. Would he be the kind of guy to pair with a 1 and 2 to move up? It might not be #12 (I think the Falcons have that pick and I'm the Bucs so they are in my division), but somewhere in the middle of the order.

[petersondagreat]

Quote: Originally Posted by mjhyankees

I'm tainted here by real life. Finnegan was a free agent and the TExans traded Mario Williams...why would they give up their other DE? in real life this never ever happens...teams don't do 4 player trades in the NFl...baseball maybe. IMO Texans don't give up either of these guys for anyone other than a superstar at the same position.

I really dont trade at all i try to build through Free agency and the draft. Outside the fact of it being a 4 player deal seemed pretty fair to me he still has mario williams at LB and he also has Osi from the NYG at his other DE position I needed a pass rush in Tenn. finnegan gives him 2 93 rated corners paired with Joseph. Jason Jones is a decent end at 82 ovr

[dirtguru]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Funny you mention a DT. I have a good, young, 4-3 type DT but am looking to convert to the 3-4. I know in Madden, it doesn't really matter, but this guy is more in the Tommy Harris type mold, but I need a Ngata type for the NT spot. I have a young kid in mind on the team (23 with 98 STR), and might grab one in the draft, so I could afford to deal. This kid is 93/A already with 93 AWR and is only 23 years old. Would he be the kind of guy to pair with a 1 and 2 to move up? It might not be #12 (I think the Falcons have that pick and I'm the Bucs so they are in my division), but somewhere in the middle of the order.

To me, a more realistic scenario would be to trade even further up to the 4th pick or sooner. I would include at least a 2nd and probably an additional mid or late round pick from next years draft as well. Obviously, since your Bucs have pick 30 they made it to the conf championship game so all but the weakest NFC teams would consider you a threat to do it again, no favors are likely unless the Bucs give up a lot!!

If your 93 OVR 4-3 DT is over 285lbs would probably make a great Justin Smith type of 34 end as well as a 3 technique 43 DE??

I to am a linebacker happy Madden player and enjoy the challenge of using the 34 D but I am curious, Why a system change? What is the virtual scenario within your Bucs franchise after a deep run into the playoffs?

[mjhyankees]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Funny you mention a DT. I have a good, young, 4-3 type DT but am looking to convert to the 3-4. I know in Madden, it doesn't really matter, but this guy is more in the Tommy Harris type mold, but I need a Ngata type for the NT spot. I have a young kid in mind on the team (23 with 98 STR), and might grab one in the draft, so I could afford to deal. This kid is 93/A already with 93 AWR and is only 23 years old. Would he be the kind of guy to pair with a 1 and 2 to move up? It might not be #12 (I think the Falcons have that pick and I'm the Bucs so they are in my division), but somewhere in the middle of the order.

yeah, well I'm a nut for realism...I run a 32 team chise and play as all teams.....when i trade I try to see it from both points of view....why would I give up a high draft choice to another team? Certainly not for lesser picks...BUT if they gave me a guy that filled a need (after all rookies....you never know) AND a later pick so I can still draft someone decent that'd work for me. The only other time teams give up high choices is if they don't have a huge need anywhere...OR...they don't want to pay big bucks for a player when they can fill two or three needs with later draft choice...pats do this all the time.

Just try to see it from both teams angles. And use this theory....a team never trades a guy that will create a need. They only fill needs...not create them. You do trade from depth (although with injuries i'm not sure teams do that anymore...if I have two really good backs....I think I'll keep them.).

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by dirtguru

To me, a more realistic scenario would be to trade even further up to the 4th pick or sooner. I would include at least a 2nd and probably an additional mid or late round pick from next years draft as well. Obviously, since your Bucs have pick 30 they made it to the conf championship game so all but the weakest NFC teams would consider you a threat to do it again, no favors are likely unless the Bucs give up a lot!!

Another limitation gets in the way. I would have no qualms about trading the 93 prospect, 1-30 this year, 2-30 this year and a 1 and 4 next year. But that's 4 pieces, and you can only have 3.

Quote: Originally Posted by dirtguru

If your 93 OVR 4-3 DT is over 285lbs would probably make a great Justin Smith type of 34 end as well as a 3 technique 43 DE??

He is big, 330 lb I think, but only has 79 STR...that seems like it would be too low for a 3-4 lineman. He pretty much plays 3 technique in our 4-3, but at DT as the DEs are great outside rushers. The kid I'm eyeing for NT is on our team, and has 98 STR and is also big. THAT sounds more like a NT to me.

Quote: Originally Posted by dirtguru

I to am a linebacker happy Madden player and enjoy the challenge of using the 34 D but I am curious, Why a system change? What is the virtual scenario within your Bucs franchise after a deep run into the playoffs?

Mainly trying to unlock more player value.

Right now, the defense is anchored on the LBs. They are the run stoppers, significant pass defenders, and pass rushers. My MLB had nearly as many INTs and the DBs and in dabbling/experimenting with the 3-4 in the final couple games, the JLB got an INT and one of the OLBs-turned-DEs got an INT on a good screen read.

We stay in base package against most offensive formations, barring something like 4-WR or 3-WR in obvious passing situations. More specifically, most of the team's defensive value is in the MLB, FS, and WLB with the pass rushing coming from a DEs who were once OLBs. We, basically, have 5 LBs playing in the 4-3 - 2 just have their hands on the ground and we call them "DEs" because that's where they play on the field. And that leaves at least 1 more excellent LB on the bench.

DTs have done next to nothing for the team for years. While they don't rack up tackles and sacks, they don't even do the minimum for whatever reason. I've had DTs get 20 tackles a year. 20. The DEs do more, so some good block shedding, powerful DEs would help stop the run, since they would need to do more than just pass rush.

If we could leverage those OLBs back on the outside as pass rushers as well as be more free to be pursuit against the run and use a good JLB to go with our MLB, and get 3 big, BSH type DTs to man the defensive line, we could have a great front 7 with contributions from all sides.

That's my thinking with the switch. With the 3-4, all six of those LBs can play in some combination, especially if we use more 2-4-5 or 1-5-5, depending on who makes the starting 4, who plays DE (maybe we got with 2 "NT" types and one quicker/Justin Smith type that remains a converted LB.) Plus, we need offense. Big time. Our QB is struggling, or line is a joke on pass protection, so dealing this good prospect, making a switch to allow us to deal him without hurting the team and potentially finding a human wall for the front line is very attractive.

[mpeterso]

Quote: Originally Posted by petersondagreat

I just traded Cortland finnagan and jason jones to the texans for JJ Watt and Jason allen thoughts?

Trades like this rarely happen in the NFL. Most trades involve draft picks and there are rarely any multi- player for multi-player deals.

[mpeterso]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

So I was wondering what a fair trade might be to move up from, say, 30 to 12 or so.

Moving from 30 to 12 is pretty huge, so it would probably cost your first plus multiple other picks. For reference think about what the Jets and Falcons had to trade to move up from mid 20's to get into the top 5 - a boat load of assets each time. Now I know moving from 30 to 12 isn't as big of a leap, but it's still pretty big. Check the nfl draft pick trade value chart for ideas.