A Reality Check About Game Development

[Soprano00]

Quote: Originally Posted by SalutationsNJ

We can't make excuses for Madden/NCAA forever. When you have games like The Show, NBA 2k, and Fifa

I don't know the other games but I know very well FIFA (more than 3000 online games in the last three years) and I assure you that EA is spoiling FIFA as well, if not more than Madden. In Madden at least the better player usually wins, that's not the case in FIFA.

EA's market is for casual gamers, let's face it.

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Soprano00

I don't know the other games but I know very well FIFA (more than 3000 online games in the last three years) and I assure you that EA is spoiling FIFA as well, if not more than Madden. In Madden at least the better player usually wins, that's not the case in FIFA. EA's market is for casual gamers, let's face it.

Whats so frustrating is that this is how madden started off in the online realm and got worse after about 3 years. From that point on its been an uphill battle and seem like an internal struggle instead of outright going into 1 direction.

With all the fuss and negativity going on with this game over the last 7 years, what could be so bad about them taking a chance at realism when almost each version ends up being a waste of WTF!

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

Basically I felt like that podcast offered up the same tired excuses for the developers that we always hear. They have a hard job, they are under time contstraints, they are making a game to sell the most copies and not necessarily the game I want them to make.

These sound like realities to me.

Or do you think game development is easy, they can take all the time they want, and are making the game personally for every gamer?

I wish I lived in a world where awesome games could be developed easily, quickly, and every game could be easily modded/tailored for my own personal tastes.

Sure, I don't like every game or every aspect of every game. I can find something wrong with every game I've ever bought. That doesn't mean I think it was easy for them to put out what they did and could have taken forever but decided just rush it.

There's some games I'm playing where the developer is blocked from doing ANYTHING without the publisher putting their hands in or saying "eh, we've moved on" - including bug fixes. So is that also an excuse? Should they break their agreements with the publisher?

Again, I wish those things weren't realities, but, to me, they are.

[Big FN Deal]

From reading some posts, I have to wonder if some people actually listened to the entire discussion on the show. When I see it stated about "excuses" referring to the show, it gives me the impression a person just skimmed it and they believe they got the jest of it. However, the discussion wasn't about giving developers a pass or gamers needing to accept the status quo, it just touched on some realities of game development, imo. I think those are something we all might not consider sometimes when we get understandably frustrated with where next-gen Madden is.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

These sound like realities to me. Or do you think game development is easy, they can take all the time they want, and are making the game personally for every gamer? I wish I lived in a world where awesome games could be developed easily, quickly, and every game could be easily modded/tailored for my own personal tastes. Sure, I don't like every game or every aspect of every game. I can find something wrong with every game I've ever bought. That doesn't mean I think it was easy for them to put out what they did and could have taken forever but decided just rush it. There's some games I'm playing where the developer is blocked from doing ANYTHING without the publisher putting their hands in or saying "eh, we've moved on" - including bug fixes. So is that also an excuse? Should they break their agreements with the publisher? Again, I wish those things weren't realities, but, to me, they are.

You're missing the point. All those things are realities but no one cares. I am not going to force myself to play a mediocre Madden if I don't like it because the developers worked hard on the game.

I do ultrasounds at a hospital for a living. I deal with overweight patients the ultrasound can't penetrate. With wheelchair or bed ridden patients that can't get into the positions I need them to. I can get 4 requests for exams from the ER in an hour with each exam normally taking an hour to do on their own. I have had shifts that lasted 30+ hours.

I know full well what it is like to have a difficult job. Guess what, no one cares about my difficulties either. The radiologists I scan for expect me to get the quality images they need and patients expect me to find what is causing their problems. When these people feel I failed at my job, they let me know it.

Back to madden. I'd love to have a new football game I enjoy. I'm happy to point out what I loved about the ps2 football games, or why I think NBA2k, the Show, COD and Skyrim are better games to spend my money on. I'm not going to buy a Madden I don't like just because the developers are working really hard on it.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

From reading some posts, I have to wonder if some people actually listened to the entire discussion on the show. When I see it stated about "excuses" referring to the show, it gives me the impression a person just skimmed it and they believe they got the jest of it. However, the discussion wasn't about giving developers a pass or gamers needing to accept the status quo, it just touched on some realities of game development, imo. I think those are something we all might not consider sometimes when we get understandably frustrated with where next-gen Madden is.

Agree, Big, when I heard the audio and saw excuses in the thread, I got the same impression. DaCzar didn't say one iota about excuses in the audio.

DaCzar has been in the development cycle with developers on a few different games and people seem to want to brush off his experiences and still form their own outside opinions.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

You're missing the point. All those things are realities but no one cares. I am not going to force myself to play a mediocre Madden if I don't like it because the developers worked hard on the game.

I don't remember anyone saying "you should buy/force yourself to play Madden because the developers worked hard on it." Obviously, if you don't like a game, don't buy it/trade it in/etc.

That doesn't mean those things are just "excuses".

And as to your job, I'm willing to be someone is very grateful you take on the challenge that you do. Your colleagues and other teams you work with may not, just like of one soldier griped to another how hard being a solider is (likely because all of you/everyone in that specific field of expertise have a hard job, it would be like the AI programmer complaining to the art programmer how hard it is make a game - of course that art guy isn't going to shed a proverbial tear for the AI guy because his job is hard too), but I'd wager that someone outside the circle, so to speak, is very grateful people with your skills exist, even if you may not be 100% flawless as no human is.

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

From reading some posts, I have to wonder if some people actually listened to the entire discussion on the show. When I see it stated about "excuses" referring to the show, it gives me the impression a person just skimmed it and they believe they got the jest of it. However, the discussion wasn't about giving developers a pass or gamers needing to accept the status quo, it just touched on some realities of game development, imo. I think those are something we all might not consider sometimes when we get understandably frustrated with where next-gen Madden is.

No need to listen BIG F, im a "gamer"!

When I pop in other titles sports or non sports or listen to their podcasts, you clearly get the feeling that the dedication is not their with the madden team. How can most of all these other devs be so "excited" when discussing the details of their next game and the "ambitions" they have behind it and we see it when we play it. I dont get that feeling or notion from madden at all, and this is where madden just becomes a "game" to me.

No story line or arc, to the offline mode, theirs that samey-ness to it thats been there since we only had "Exhibition" mode back in the 8 bit days. Im not a programmer but going off what I have played and whats out there, I just feel the team is not where it should be mentally and we seen that with all the departures these past few years from them.

If you wanna listen to podcasts and see how its done, then I suggests listening to a few of them from different genre's, lets not forget that the same guys (studio) who made "gameday" are the same ones responsible for MLB 2K the SHOW. Game has its flaws aswell, but rest assured that team does its best to make sure they get addressed.

Madden has too much red tape to be the only game in town, heck, all the system specs for nex gen consoles are already leaking a year or so before we even here anything about a new madden release as if hearing about it now is gonna stall sales.