In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

[Broncos86]

The only time I've ever seen a PI call was because I switched to a DB and ran into the WR.

[PGaither84]

When talking about penalties, we aren't JUST talking about what is on the slider list and how they are balanced when called, but the tons of penalties that are in the NFL and are called that just aren't in Madden.

A receiver can run out of bounds and be the first one to touch the ball in Madden. A pass can hit an offensive linemen before touching any other player in Madden and not get called for illegal touching of a forward pass. There are no penalties for ineligible man down field, which is most often called on screens where linemen get too much depth. On top of problems with Offensive/defensive PI, there also isn' any illegal contact or defensive holding.

OH, while rare in the NFL and it isn't in 2k8 either but would be nice, is defensive holding in the run game. In real life, defensive linemen sometimes try to hold an offensive linemen... especially in a double team to prevent him from blocking at the second level.

There are more, but those would make a difference, and we haven't even touched unsportsmanlike conduct, which the NFL doesn't want EA to have in the game. I want it, but it won't happen until the NFL allows it.

While rare, there also aren't muffed handoffs, botched snaps, or poor holds on kicks. You will never have a snap go over the QB's head in Madden. not even a 1/1,000 chance. Those will never happen.

Part 1 of 7, watch them all if you have the time:

[Broncos86]

Penalties like that I'm willing to let slide because I know tracking all of that could be a real nightmare for the current console. The next console generation is another matter.

[mrprice33]

Bill Simmons of ESPN has been talking about the "no effing way" game in Madden since he's been writing for them (2002?), and often talks about how it's been there since the genesis days. So this is not a new problem. It's also not a Madden problem. This happens all the time in the NBA 2K series. For years it was the last few minutes of the first quarter/first few of the second quarter for the user, and now it seems the CPU makes big second half runs in pretty much every game I play.

[FreAk47]

Quote: Originally Posted by ratedmoney

Tackling is one of the worst parts of the game, and has been this entire console generation.

Agreed 100%

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Penalties like that I'm willing to let slide because I know tracking all of that could be a real nightmare for the current console. The next console generation is another matter.

Why would it a nightmare to track?

The game is already aware of when players go out of bounds, I'm sure it could grab the information of the first player the ball's hit box contacts and check to see if he's an eligible receiver on that play or if he went out of bounds at all during the play since the game already tracks contact with the football to catch, deflect, kick, etc.

If a player goes out of bounds or is ineligible, set a flag. If that player is the first player to contact a pass, call a penalty.

Illegal contact/defensive holding (both in pass or run) would just need animations just like offensive holding. The game even has penalties in there are no sliders for (you can get called for late hit out of bounds and the CPU can somehow trigger an illegal forward pass, which has no referee audio for whatever reason).

[rymflaherty]

To me one of the problems is after a couple years of Franchise the game tends to get "stale"......and I'm not sure what EA can do, because the problems are really inherit to attempting to "simulate" a football game.

I love MLB the show, because it gives me a truly varied experience.....I never know what to expect game to game, season to season. Guys can get hot, guys will be cold, etc.
I was thinking about this (and why it's not the case for Madden) and it was obvious, baseball really lends itself to such a simulation. Baseball being at it's heart a 1:1 battle between pitcher and batter, where a potential result can be assigned to a dice role.
How do you accomplish that with Madden? Football the ultimate team sport. 22 players on the field all with unique responsibilities that can make or break the play?

What I've noticed, and a major problem, is in Madden the player has too much control over success, and that leads to it being "stale".
For ex. - After a couple years I have the playbook down. I know my first read, second read and third. I know where I'm going vs. Man, vs. Zone.
It gets to the point where I could replicate the results with virtually any QB rated over 75 or so........
It becomes more dependent on my ability and football knowledge then the virtual players on the field.

Another area this becomes a problem is with the ratings. Certain ratings (like speed) can be too great an indicator of success and mask the players falls.
In the NFL a fast back my stink, because he lacks things like vision. He doesn't see the hole, dances, etc. But in Madden if you give me a pure speed back more often than not I have success, regardless of rating.
Because again, the things that are what separates the haves from have not's in real life, are controlled by the USER. I'm controlling the back, where he goes, how he hits the hole.......Things like vision and awareness now mean little.


So beyond the usual stuff we all see (like crappy animations, horrible logic when it comes to DB/WR interactions, etc.) this is another big problem to me, and one that does not have an easy answer.
The only solution I can think of would be to have more "out of the players control".......That would come closer to realism that I personally desire. I.E. - A QB without a great rating just flat out missing throws. A fast, but low overall back slipping, or slowing up as he gets to the hole.
That would help facilitate "realism" and variance in games, and actually make results more dependent on having a skilled team, rather than the user becoming good at the game.
But that creates a new problem, because I'm sure that would just make people angry that things are being taken out of their control.

I actually have had fun with this year's Madden (as opposed to 11' which literally was infuriating and unplayable to me).....but more often then not it still feels like a game, rather than a true simulation (like playing the Show or NBA2K).

[Cardot]

Quote: Originally Posted by rymflaherty

What I've noticed, and a major problem, is in Madden the player has too much control over success, and that leads to it being "stale".

For me, it is the opposite reason. (we likely have different settings, play styles, and you are probably much better). But for me, the game feels stale because I don't feel I have much to do with the outcome. As mentioned in earlier posts, just way too often I will be gifted a big play when I didn't do anything to earn it....and vice versa. I am not suggesting that there shouldn't be things out of my control...there should. But in my experience they just feel feel exagerated and artificial.

Quote: Originally Posted by rymflaherty

Another area this becomes a problem is with the ratings. Certain ratings (like speed) can be too great an indicator of success and mask the players falls........Things like vision and awareness now mean little.

I agree with you here, but not sure how the game should be designed to handle it? Especially things like "Vision". The vision is on the user whether he is Adrian Peterson or a practice squad RB.