Madden hate PC

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by strive

You can port a game in a month of dev time (mainly ironing out bugs and remapping the interface). If the PC market only sold 1% of what the consoles did (2.5 million IIRC) it would pay for its self and then some.

From my own personal experience, it took a team I was working with longer than a month to port a game designed for mobile phones from iOS to Android, and this using a technology specifically designed to make conversion of such nature easier. The game we were working on also doesn't begin to approach the graphical and computational complexity of Madden; undoubtedly Tiburon would be working on a port of Madden for a much longer period of time.

On PCs, not only do you have to deal with the traditional debugging and interface remapping, but you also have to consider that the hardware is not standardized. That's a whole 'nother level of frustrating bugs right there, making sure that the game works with the most commonly-used hardware types and ironing out weird conflicts. One also has to develop different levels of graphical detail which cater to players of the game on various hardware configurations; not everyone is playing on a state-of-the-art gaming rig, and undoubtedly a game such as Madden EA is going to want on as many PCs as possible if they chose to port it. That has costs on both the code and art side, and again is another round of things to run quality assurance on.

There's a lot more upfront cost than you realize, probably more than what I've even mentioned here. Because of this, I don't see Madden PC happening in the foreseeable future whatsoever.

[strive]

A month was hyperbole. However Mass Effect was ported from 360 to PC in four to five months, and it is a far more complex game than Madden with 100s of plot flags and it also had pc specific features added in the port.

Quote:

One also has to develop different levels of graphical detail which cater to players of the game on various hardware configurations; not everyone is playing on a state-of-the-art gaming rig, and undoubtedly a game such as Madden EA is going to want on as many PCs as possible if they chose to port it.

A 'port' is assuming the minimal graphics (console). Usually most ports don't have AA or any special eye candy outside of V-SYNC. A Toshiba laptop from Wal-Mart has as much 'power' as a 360 now adays. They aren't going to add HD textures and Physx support for a port, if they did then it is no longer a 'port'.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by strive

A month was hyperbole. However Mass Effect was ported from 360 to PC in four to five months, and it is a far more complex game than Madden with 100s of plot flags and it also had pc specific features added in the port.

I'd venture to guess that that Madden and Mass Effect are on similar levels of technical complexity, though in different ways.

Quote:

A 'port' is assuming the minimal graphics (console). Usually most ports don't have AA or any special eye candy outside of V-SYNC. A Toshiba laptop from Wal-Mart has as much 'power' as a 360 now adays. They aren't going to add HD textures and Physx support for a port, if they did then it is no longer a 'port'.

I agree that EA probably wouldn't go out of their way to make a port fancy, but there's a certain baseline of things that have to be met. Making the game work on Intel chipsets and AMD chipsets; making the game work with AMD video cards, nVidia video cards, and other integrated graphics cards on notebooks; making the game play nicely with EA's Origin service, and maybe also Steam; etc. etc.

My main point to all this is that it's a complex enough issue to heavily discourage EA from investing the resources necessary to do the port.

Tangential to this discussion, does Madden on the 360 even have anti-aliasing? I don't recall it being there.

[strive]

Quote:

My main point to all this is that it's a complex enough issue to heavily discourage EA from investing the resources necessary to do the port.

I'm not saying it isn't complex, but if you can port Mass Effect in 4-5 months between an ownership change (Microsoft to EA) in 2007. I don't see how it would be a colossal undertaking in 2012 where porting has became a norm with consoles being so popular.

Also when you have a smaller company like Take Two Interactive (2K) porting sports games left and right it makes me scratch my head why a popular game like Madden wouldn't be cost efficient for an industry giant like EA. I mean they port Madden onto the Wii and PSP which I assume sell less than the PC market.

The only thing I can think of is they're afraid of modding diminishing sales. Piracy isn't even as nasty as an issue now. It still exists, but it is a shell of its former self.

How are they going to nickel and dime folks with uniforms, recruiting boosters, etc. When you can go into an ini file and edit it in yourself on PC. Another Mass Effect example, but in Mass Effect 3 some of the DLC is already on the disc/download, so you simply just go into the files and set a flag to 'true' and voila you got your sweet N7 armor and weapons, and you can do the same for other dlc items.

[Nza]

Quote: Originally Posted by strive

As the NFL begins to "globalize" it oughta look at the PC market. PC gaming is much more popular internationally than console gaming, especially in Europe which they seem to be targeting pretty heavily.

I think this points to the NFL being out of touch a tad. I can't believe they would have ever agreed to sell an exclusive license to a game company who planned on abandoning the world's largest gaming platform (at the time, iOS or Android is probably closing in) while they are in the middle of trying to expand outwards into the world, slowly but surely. I suspect this deal was signed by old dudes who probably had no idea what it meant.

Here's an example for you - the NFL can directly thank EA for Madden PC during the 90's converting me to an NFL fan. I had been a casual player on the Genesis but once CD media came out with the PSX etc, it was hard to get PAL copies of NFL games in Australia, so I reverted to PC - a regionless platform. Without that, I probably don't become the fan I am, who now spends hundreds a year on Gamepass subscriptions and views NFL.com's advertisements etc. If the NFL had any clue, they would have ensured Madden PC remained for marketing reasons alone - who gives a **** if all of China pirates it, that's exposure for the NFL few other mediums can match and perhaps they should have factored it into the exclusive license cost as a subsidy.

Hell, throw EA a few million and get them to make a PC version that is deliberately easy to pirate. Besides the fact if it's a good game it will still sell well (Sins of a Solar Empire is my favorite example here being a 100% protection free game that sold great), if you get a whole bunch of people worldwide downloading it for free, that's effective marketing right there. Throw in a benchmark mode which returns frames per second stats for hardcore PC fans to gawk at, and you now have a few hundred tech websites using your game to review video cards and other PC hardware. Combined, millions more people in the world would know more about the NFL because of that. Now I know it's a little extreme to suggest supporting piracy, but as a thought exercise I think I've made my point - there is a lot of potential going to waste here, and all it takes is a bit of real world thinking and marketing.

[GhostFacedOLB]

Quote: Originally Posted by strive

Yes but the 512mb RAM and archaic CPU in consoles would be problematic. The console GPU would struggle pretty hard too to project 40+ players on a 1080p screen. Long story short, consoles in their current state could run an MMO such as Mabinogi, Maple Story, etc basically 2D f2p ones. However it would get crushed by WoW, RIFT, etc.

You cant be serious...WoW can run a toaster. Thats why it holds so many subs, its accesible to people running 10 year old factory bought Compaqs. To imply that consoles couldnt run it is laughable to say the least.

Age of Conan is one of the most graphically demanding MMO's available on the market, much more than Aion or Rift. This was one MMO they talked seriously about bringing to consoles, they just simply decided not to do it for the reasons I listed, mainly the inconvienence of keeping two seperate development teams. So again, the idea that consoles couldnt handle them because of hardware issues is completely fabricated and entirely unfounded.

[GhostFacedOLB]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nza

Pathetic compared to what? Consoles? That's a silly comparison (that I'm guessing probably didn't include online sales or outside USA sales anyway). Two entirely different markets. For something to 'die', it has to have its life force taken away from it. PC gaming has grown year in year out. Just because one random market doesn't compare well with another random market doesn't mean that the first market is on the verge of dieing - it is still sustainable in its own right. PC gaming doesn't need console level sales to exist - just like the DSLR camera market doesn't need smart phone level sales to exist. You're looking at this from a confused point of view. It has little to do with trends. Consoles created a new market space, it didn't steal consumers from PC gaming en mass. It may now dwarf PC gaming (in most comparisons not involving WOW or The Sims etc), but then so do Nicki Minaj sales over most other recording artists. EDIT: Oh and BTW, the "rise" in the past 2-3 years for PC sales is almost definitely because market collection techniques have finally caught up with digital distribution channels.

Again, PC gaming has only been in a growth phase for a few years. Every year before that committed to memory it was in a steep and gradual decline. Im not confused at all, its PC gamers who want to grossly overestimate the viability of the PC gaming market based on mostly Dec 2011 sales who are confused. Those were the only numbers that showed any real promise. And its much too small of a sample size to get any real indication of a trend, and yes trends have everything to do with it, Im afraid. Its trends that lead to companies like EA deciding not to develop Madden for PC anymore. They dont just wake up one morning and make a knee jerk reaction and decide to pull the plug, the decision is backed up by years of market research into the matter.

Hardcore gamers more often than not own more than one platform. To make some inane comparison to the gaming market and the pop music industry as if its some direct correlation is completely ridiculous. You're basically comparing buying a $15 CD or buying a couple of songs from Itunes to the investment of a $300-$1200 gaming rig just to get accessibility to different games which cost anywhere from $25-$60..much more here in Australia. Theres no logical link between the two. However there is a logical link between console and PC gaming, which for some reason you completely discount before making up such a strange analogy.

In any event, I think the original point stands, Im claiming that EA will not bring Madden back to PC anytime in the next 10 years. Im pretty confident in that. We'll see.

[Nza]

Quote: Originally Posted by GhostFacedOLB

Again, PC gaming has only been in a growth phase for a few years. Every year before that committed to memory it was in a steep and gradual decline. Im not confused at all, its PC gamers who want to grossly overestimate the viability of the PC gaming market based on mostly Dec 2011 sales who are confused. Those were the only numbers that showed any real promise. And its much too small of a sample size to get any real indication of a trend, and yes trends have everything to do with it, Im afraid. Its trends that lead to companies like EA deciding not to develop Madden for PC anymore. They dont just wake up one morning and make a knee jerk reaction and decide to pull the plug, the decision is backed up by years of market research into the matter. Hardcore gamers more often than not own more than one platform. To make some inane comparison to the gaming market and the pop music industry as if its some direct correlation is completely ridiculous. You're basically comparing buying a $15 CD or buying a couple of songs from Itunes to the investment of a $300-$1200 gaming rig just to get accessibility to different games which cost anywhere from $25-$60..much more here in Australia. Theres no logical link between the two. However there is a logical link between console and PC gaming, which for some reason you completely discount before making up such a strange analogy. In any event, I think the original point stands, Im claiming that EA will not bring Madden back to PC anytime in the next 10 years. Im pretty confident in that. We'll see.

What are your sources for saying PC has only been in growth for a few years? Again, I think you'll find PC gaming statistics have been notoriously poor indicators because they ignored digital sales and continue to struggle properly counting them. There is no freaking way PC gaming 'regressed' since the launch of Steam, and that was a while ago now.

Umm, it was an analogy (as you later said), not a direct comparison. The point is just because one artists sells a crap ton of CDs doesn't mean other lower selling artists can't exist. The point is directly translatable to basically any industry, including gaming. And you definitely are confused - you suggested because PC doesn't stack up to console it is dieing. That is a pointless comparison because the health of the PC market has little to do with the status of the console market.

Trends matter, just not the one you cite. The suggestion that increases in PC gaming is due to consoles aging is ridiculous. Not only do I highly doubt the console data backs up any such claims (you know, people going away from console to PC because of this), but any sensible analyst would suggest multiple other reasons before even considering that (like, as I said, better stat keeping for PC sales, or the growth of China perhaps?). Perhaps if there was an actual trend spanning across past console release cycles, but I'm guessing you don't have data there to back it up.