Madden More Than Just a Game?

[WildFan22]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gotmadskillzson

Madden use to be a game I loved in the early 90s. But now it has transformed into something that I don't care for like I did back in 92 and 93. It is a hell of a lot less about knowing the X's and O's and more about people exploiting the cracks in the game. Plus all this AUTO stuff they have in the game just turns me off. Auto strafe Auto pass Tackle Assist Catch Assist Auto Sprint Auto play calling Auto drop back Lit up icons to let you know when to throw the ball Those things annoy me greatly and IMO is the babying of Madden. Dare I say it is way too user friendly ? To me it is. It use to be if you didn't know football, you got your butt handed to you for doing the wrong things. Now......the game auto corrects itself, so if you do something stupid, you can just press a button or in some cases don't press a button and the game corrects your mistake for you. To me, that is like giving a trophy to everybody just because they were there..........Sports and life in general is about risk and rewards. Nowadays in Madden there is no risk what so ever. Let me know when they start making Madden for adults again......because this whole generation they been making it so easy that a caveman can play it.

I agree. Since they have the exclusive license they have to appeal to everyone instead of making an NFL sim experience. I think a more sim like Madden would create a greater opportunity for a successful arcade NFL game because they lines wouldn't be as blurred.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

What are your thoughts? Is Madden just a game? or has it transcended to something else?

I had to go way back down memory lane to pull my thoughts together on this one:



I really don't even remember playing much Madden as a kid. I was more into NCAA, and back then it was very much just a game, something to be enjoyed in leisure, another way to compete against friends. I never lost a game in my house. Ever. Then I remember when they added a mode that allowed you to play a single season and during Christmas break I'd take Florida State and win the National Title with Danny Kanell, then the next year I'd take Colorado and throw for 5000 yards with Kordell Stewart.

Somewhere along the way, after high school my gaming stopped all together. I guess I could say it died when my SEGA Gensis died and as a poor college student I didn't have the time or the money for a new system.

Then around 2004 a friend of mine's son was getting bad grades in school so she took his PS2. I don't remember exactly how the conversation went, but she let me hold onto it, and on a whim one night before work, I popped Madden in just to get a look at it because a few guys I knew were playing in the NFL at the time. For me it was breathtaking to see dudes I went to school with actually IN the game. It was one thing to see them play on Sundays, but to control them, it was a whole other world, and it had me hooked from the get-go. I went from not giving a flip about any video game to suddenly finding myself daydreaming during work about my next franchise opponent, what I did wrong in the last game, how I needed to mimic real life playcalling. Sometimes, I couldn't even get out of my work clothes before I had to fire a game up.

At that point it became an obsession, but I fun a obsession. There was no angst attached to it. The game was pure joy for me. It became how I decompressed at the end of a day.

I often look back and I ask myself what was so different about those days? Could it have been that I was younger and didn't have a care in the world, could it be that the game was better then, deeper, and allowed me to create my own universe? I mean these were the Maddens where we had newspaper storylines both national and local, Tony Bruno radio show with Jeff Fisher, Bill Cowher, Ray Lewis, etc. calling in and discussing weekly topics. So, was the game really better, or was I just more content and willing to overlook its flaws?

Well, life is lived in the grey area, so it's probably both. I never got into the competitive scene. All the depth I needed was right there offline and at the time I wasn't so good that I was above getting beaten by the CPU, so I stayed stimulated. I never went online and checked websites for any advanced info. My only pre-release interest consisted of who was going to be on the cover. But I didn't need to be concerned because every year I played on PS2 from 2004 promised a better game with some new wrinkle to dig into.

Then it happened. I decided one day that it was time for me to get a next gen console before the next Madden and the bottom completely dropped out for me. That's actually how I stumbled onto O.S.; I was looking for comparison vids. I saw the bad wrap Next Gen '07 got. I saw all the developer interviews leading into 2008 acknowledging the previous game's shortcomings and enthusiastically touting the new gameplay. Keep in mind this was the first time I had ever looked at any such vids online, so I was all in. When I got hold of Madden 08 that year, I felt like I had been kicked in the nuts. I mean I was coming off of PS2 Maddens from 04-07, I was stunned at how much wasn't there in Madden 08. I couldn't believe this was the same game that I had become obsessed with.

Since that day it's been a yearly wish to see Madden once again enrapture me with that level of magic. Since that day I felt frustration at my once favorite pastime.

So, to addressing LBz original question:

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

What are your thoughts? Is Madden just a game? or has it transcended to something else?

The answer is yes. In the broadest of contexts, it has always been just a game, with no lasting impact on my demeanor when the console goes off. But when those green lights swirl on the front of my 360 and the disc goes in, it is absolutely something else. My competitive juices do start bubbling up. As CR pointed out, I do bring my own level of ethics to bare whether I'm competing against the CPU or a human opponent. And every once in a while -- not as often as it used to be, but every once in a while when I'm playing -- when I'm not taken out of the game by something wonky, I do find myself totally immersed again and buzzing like I was oh so long ago when I popped Madden 04 into that PS2 for the first time.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by N51_rob

I think that is where a strong community like OS can help. There are a lot of guys who play the game the right way and can take a loss like a man. Hell, I went 4-12 one year of the OS Vets, and there was another owner who in two seasons was 2-30 and he never bitched and didn't quit any games. There are people out there that know how to play the game and play it to match wits with other people over a CPU and win or lose they enjoy that part of online. Finding those people is the hard part for some it seems.

I second this N51, good post. I've co-founded and founded an ongoing league and both were very successful. Last year in NNFL we had 32 guys for the long haul. The only reason why we played 4 seasons and not more was because guys got burned out on the game itself. It was the gameplay that wore people out. Everyone started playing the exact same way, which is the blue print for success. The rules we had were great and everyone obeyed them well for the most part, but it's the styles. Blitz, blitz and more blitz. Roam the middle with fast MLBs manually and intercept passes - wash, rinse, repeat. Stud defensive ends don't get pressure, defensive tackles were racking up 22 sacks per season, players were warping through other players for interceptions, one handed picks by linebackers. Despite the great enjoyment we had out of the league and the camaraderie it provided, the gameplay itself wears you out. It got to the point that playing the Giants or the Browns or the Vikings, it was essentially the same game. This is not by design, but how Madden is constructed and how the game plays on the field.

I've always felt that madden had some amazing features off the field, but the actual football, which at the end of the day is what we care mostly about, was terribly unrealistic. I didn't always feel that way, it just hasn't advanced like all of the other sports games have. Madden never "grew up" I guess.

[GiantBlue76]

Great thread guys - enjoying the comments immensly and it's raising my spirits in regards to some of the type of sports gamers that are out there.

Quote:

With these distinctions in mind, once we take hold of the mind set of winner and loser Madden is no longer a mere game. Now if we are simply fooling around like just trying to get the ambulance out, yeah, merely a game. Our demand for simulation with implied intellectual skill at work IMO is clamoring for it to be sport. Add to that communities already competing for money and I definitely think it has transcended into something else. This seems to no longer be about fun. That element is still there. Our penchant for competition and either rewriting our own story or being the one pushing the buttons behind our favorite teams brings out the competitor in all of us. I think there is a weaving of these elements together as we play. Depending on who we are one dynamic dominates over the other one.

In response to this right here LB - No doubt we are all competitive at some level, after all, that's what sports is all about. Over the years, the games have improved and have become more realistic. In 2004 we reached the pinnacle of football gaming. 2k5 and Madden 05 were both unbelievable games. Both pushed each other and both created heaven for football fans wanting a realistic experience. Me personally, I've played sports my whole life at lots of different levels. One thing that I know is that I can't stand to lose. However, as much as I hate to lose, I have the same burning desire to want to EARN the win. As Silver said, I would only buy Madden to play in a league. I'll be honest here again, I also only would buy Madden because it's the only NFL game. I can't stand the madden gameplay, because it's not realistic (IMHO) and others can disagree, of course. However, how I've come to realize that is because I've had the luxury of playing other football and sports games that have shown me that it is entirely possible to generate a realistic experience. Both EA AND 2k have shown me that. When you put Madden side by side next to NBA 2k, MLB the Show, Fifa and NHL (to name a few), it's not even remotely close - Madden looks and plays like the red-headed step child. It's embarrassingly bad at times. It is the natural progression of the other genres and what we once had in football that has created this feeling and generated this expectation of a more realistic, competitive game.

Things need to open up and more companies need to be brought into the fold. Not so we can say "screw Madden, I'm buying this game". Instead so we see that same push that drives towards excellence. As much as I love 2k's brand of realistic football, who is to say that with the push of a real competitor, Madden doesn't come to be the better game? I'm buying it if it does. Just look at the NBA Elite debacle. Does anyone here really believe EA would NOT have released that game had they had an exclusive deal with the NBA?

Madden has always been a big part of sports gaming, but it is even more so because it is the only option. The poor quality and sub par product this generation has turned off a lot of long time fans and alienated folks who were once big time football gamers. Many have given up and walked away for good, others just buy it because they love the NFL so much they can't live without it, then others buy it because they love all things Madden regardless.

Wouldn't it be great if we all just bought it because it was the benchmark for all great sports games instead?

[Big FN Deal]

@LBz, to your point about the competitive intensity of Madden, I think the monetary competitive circuit, is the best one to build online gaming around because it is naturally the most competitive. Similar to my thought process on if EA/Tiburon were to create Madden to be an optimal representation of NFL football, it would easily be capable of being modified to accommodate arcade play but the reverse doesn't apply. Likewise creating games to regulate at the competitive level found in monetary contests would easily encompass gaming as whole.

Very few people play Madden just to mark time anymore imo, they have some preset agenda when loading the game. I think the majority of Madden gamers "agenda" is to experience a reasonable NFL caliber challenge and see how they measure up, whether that's online or offline, Franchise or Play now, versus CPU or HUM. For me in Madden, the wins feel so hollow and the loses are so unacceptable because that reasonable NFL caliber challenge I want, is NOT a part of the process. Wins and losses are results but it's the competitive process that's the most important. Unfortunately in Madden that process is still tailored more for that "bring out the ambulance" game, instead of the contest NFL gaming and contestants most Madden gamers have transcended into.

[Wilson24]

I dont think that its because we are older.... The next gen has all the bells and whistles, amazing graphics but the gameplay is just crap. No control or feel. There is no chess match anymore. Everything just seems so scripted and lifeless. Pre reads now become quirks in the game play/tendencies of who does what pre snap and not the actual defense they are in or what was done the previous time.

On defense I feel like I have to make so many adjustments just to stop a 5 yard pass to a te over the middle when the opponet has ran the play 5 times already and the play I called is designed to stop it..

I stuck with ps2 until madden 10 cause that was the first one where the locomotion was somewhat resemblent of past gen. But they have not improved any aspect of that and doesnt look like they plan to this year either.

.

[cuttingteeth]

I think some may have taken my posts earlier the wrong way. When I mention customization along with this game, I mean it allowing me to make the game harder to play. I never set sliders or ratings to be crap. Again, with Madden being my only source of NFL football competition I can get into, I embraced when able to make it absolutely challenging. I, too, enjoyed losing a tough game as much as pulling one out at the last second.

[TTD71]

Madden and NCAA have been THE staple of my gaming life for decades. I date back to the original Madden Football for Sega Genesis and Bill Walsh College Football. Like many others here, I remember the late night gaming sessions with my brother and a few friends that would center around the "king of the couch" and the inevitable hazing that came with losing, knowing that it could be up to an hour and a half before you'd get another shot. Back then, when 4 of us would play from 10 PM until 7 AM without even realizing it, it was all about the game and proving who was better in the room.

After High School and College, I had all but quit gaming entirely...I would rent NFL Gameday for PS1 (but the CPU was no challenge by that point...it was a ridiculously easy thing to win every game and break any record and it held to fun factor for me); or I would pick up NCAA Gamebreaker if I was going to be home for a holiday and knew the old gang would be back together. Hell, I remember the year that there was a UCLA guy (Cade McNown?) on the cover and my friends and I spent 2 solid days playing the game, talking smack and reliving the "old days" (which were only 4 or 5 years earlier back then...lol...instead of the 15 or 20 years earlier it is now).

After that, I started losing interest rapidly. I had become a father and I had moved far away from my young adult friends and hometown. By the time the PS2 was released I was barely hanging on at all as a gamer, and sports gaming had been reduced to a once-a-year weekend rental at the start of the season. But then everything changed with the advent of online play in Madden NFL 2003.

Myself and several of my best friends reconnected and started playing online. It was not quite the same as being together on the couch back when we were teens, but it breathed life into the game for me in a way it did not for everyone else in my social circle. A few guys played throughout the season and even into Madden NFL 2004, but because they did not love the online play or get the same high off of playing it that I did, they rapidly became less skilled and started losing regularly to me by larger and larger scores. It was not that I was "cheesing" them or cheating or even doing much at all that abused the AI, it was just that I would play 20 or 30 games a week online against all comers and they would play 4 or 5 a weekend.

This was also about the same time that my family was rapidly expanding and my evening social hours outside the home were curtailed. I had been a competitive pool player, making it as far as the local US Open qualifying tourney with my league team, but I was no longer able to keep a full sized table up in the house (the kids play room took the space) and I was no longer able to go out and shoot 4 nights a week (the wife was no having that with kids at home), so I really took to online gaming with a vengeance! I started playing in online leagues (some of which I remain in to this day) and then I started noticing something else popping up - a powerful disdain for people who would "win" without the slightest bit of strategy or football knowledge.

It started in Madden NFL 2004 with the Vick QB sneak offenses and the madness of seeing a guy like Brain Finneran become someone who I knew about at all! But over the years, while I enjoyed the competition online and found that I could no longer enjoy playing the CPU at all for any reason outside of practice mode, I also started to develop a real need to play video game FOOTBALL instead of video GAME football. I could not stand playing a guy (win, lose or draw) that used purely videogame tactics to "win". I honestly would get upset that they could even have success doing the things like the 30-yd QB dropbacks and throws across the entire length of the field...maybe it was because I only played Tecmo Bowl on NES and skipped most of Super Tecmo Super Bowl...or maybe it was that I was just older and no longer as easily amazed that I was controlling one of my favorite players on a game.

In the end, I think that what really happened for me is that I became numb to the "fun factor" after having already "been-there-done-that" thousands of times before. I have a theory that much like a RB having a finite but cummulative total number of hits in their body, that for some of us in the Madden community, we have a finite number of things we are able to overlook in the name of just having fun with the game. We all start off that way...wide-eyed and just LOVING the game...I noticed this most recently with my 9-year old son who is learning to play on the older Maddens ('04/'05/'06) and PS2; but he was just awed when I let him play his brother on the PS3 on Madden '12.

To the uninitiated, to the new players and the next-generation of video gamers, Madden does NOT suck. The flaws that drive me berserk because I have been howling about them for half a decade, simply do not even register on their radar. And then I got to thinking about it a little deeper and realized that it ain't the years that have sapped my enjoyment of Madden in its basic form of lightly-sim, mostly-arcade football...its the mileage.

I have played too long and too many games and too many years to any longer be really "happy" with the game the way my young sons are happy with it. To me, I notice every blown defensive assignment, every stupid blocking decision, every impossible pass or psychic DB or super LB...to my sons though, they love the fact that THEY threw a TD to their favorite player or the fact that they are experiencing the game the way I first experienced Tecmo Bowl. And then I realized that while I am in my 40's and still playing online, that the other guy on the game could more easily be my son than someone my own age playing the game (not to say that "young" equates to anything any more than "old" does, just saying that there is a gulf of experiences and expectations now in online head-to-head gaming that has been building and widening for almost a decade.

What started off (for me anyway) as a new way to experience and rekindle some of my passion and love for playing Madden and video game FOOTBALL, has become in many ways my own private slog through more and more video GAME football experiences between what I really want and what I either choose to suffer through or quit and try again....