Rethinking Blitzing and Show Blitz in Madden NFL/NCAA Football

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I think I get what you are suggesting but I keep picturing it as every blitzer being synchronized headed towards the LOS, if that makes sense. It seems to be in that ilk of what I mention before about things happening far too uniform. What about if it was a User mechanic, like you suggest but each defender approached/attacked the LOS differently paced? That way, depending on the number of blitzers, some would inherently have better timing then others and the User mechanic is more ranged control then direct pinpoint control. Something to avoid every blitzer hitting the LOS at the same time, making it playout more organic.

Big let me see if I can explain it using an example. Let's just use Nickel 2-4-5 Buck Slant 3



On this one there are five rushers, two of which we might label "blitzers" the WILB and the NB. Let's say the offense is in a single back slot formation like so:



Just taking these two plays and matching them against one another we would have the match up we are looking for.

.................................................W ILB.......SILB..............SS.................... .....

.........CB.............NB...........OLB......DE.. ......DE........OLB.............................CB
..........................WR............OT.......G .....C.....G......OT...TE........................W R
.........WR

Alignment might be off a little bit but you get the picture. When you are on offense it looks like this is straight man to man coverage with the NB on the slot WR and the outside corners man up on the perimeter WR's. It also appears that the SS is in man on the TE. Going back to that Buck Slant 3 play. Let's say that's our call with this look. What I'm advocating is when I as the user hit show blitz, the NB creeps off the slot at an angle. His aiming point is the backfield. The WILB should begin a looping animation since the OLB and DE will be crashing down inside on the snap. Ideally what should happen on the snap is the WILB is on his way and the CB is already coming across the line. The OLB should attack the Guard which would leave the LT on an island to either pick up the NB, in which case the WILB turns up the B gap and attacks the QB. If there is no blocker (HB) he should get the sack. Refer the Lewis sacking Big Ben in real life video. If the LT follows the OLB inside then the NB should come off the edge untouched. Refer to Ravens vs Jets Sunday Night Football last season. First play of the game for the Ravens Defense Ed Reed did exactly that. Suggs crash down inside, Ed Reed pre-aligned on the slot and timed it perfectly off the edge and strip sacked Sanchez.

Make sense?

If I had the following call against the same offensive play:



I would expect when I hit show blitz the SILB to pop out of his stance and start to charge the RG. I would expect the safety to creep at first then get a full head of steam and charge the B gap so that on the snap his movement is unimpeded as he crosses the line; unless the line picks it up or a back picks him up that is. Some guys are going to charge faster because of where they are coming from others might skip step rather than charger because they do not have far to go. Sometimes they creep.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Big let me see if I can explain it using an example. Let's just use Nickel 2-4-5 Buck Slant 3 On this one there are five rushers, two of which we might label "blitzers" the WILB and the NB. Let's say the offense is in a single back slot formation like so: Just taking these two plays and matching them against one another we would have the match up we are looking for. .................................................W ILB.......SILB..............SS.................... ..... .........CB.............NB...........OLB......DE.. ......DE........OLB.............................CB ..........................WR............OT.......G .....C.....G......OT...TE........................W R .........WR Alignment might be off a little bit but you get the picture. When you are on offense it looks like this is straight man to man coverage with the NB on the slot WR and the outside corners man up on the perimeter WR's. It also appears that the SS is in man on the TE. Going back to that Buck Slant 3 play. Let's say that's our call with this look. What I'm advocating is when I as the user hit show blitz, the NB creeps off the slot at an angle. His aiming point is the backfield. The WILB should begin a looping animation since the OLB and DE will be crashing down inside on the snap. Ideally what should happen on the snap is the WILB is on his way and the CB is already coming across the line. The OLB should attack the Guard which would leave the LT on an island to either pick up the NB, in which case the WILB turns up the B gap and attacks the QB. If there is no blocker (HB) he should get the sack. Refer the Lewis sacking Big Ben in real life video. If the LT follows the OLB inside then the NB should come off the edge untouched. Refer to Ravens vs Jets Sunday Night Football last season. First play of the game for the Ravens Defense Ed Reed did exactly that. Suggs crash down inside, Ed Reed pre-aligned on the slot and timed it perfectly off the edge and strip sacked Sanchez. Make sense? If I had the following call against the same offensive play: I would expect when I hit show blitz the SILB to pop out of his stance and start to charge the RG. I would expect the safety to creep at first then get a full head of steam and charge the B gap so that one the snap his movement is impeded as he crosses the line; unless the line picks it up or a back picks him up that is. Some guys are going to charge faster because of where they are coming from others might skip step rather than charger because they do not have far to go. Sometimes they creep.

It might didn't seem like it but I understood most of that from the get go. It was the bold I was having an issue picturing as if when someone decided to hit "timed blitz", the Safety would come running up and the LB would wait until the Safety was even, then they both head for the LOS, lol.

I know that sounds crazy but that seems like how Madden would ordinarily do it, the way defenders sync up with each other currently. Anyway, I see what you are saying now completely with "Show Blitz" being a manual timing mechanic instead of how it works now.

I like it!

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

It might didn't seem like it but I understood most of that from the get go. It was the bold I was having an issue picturing as if when someone decided to hit "timed blitz", the Safety would come running up and the LB would wait until the Safety was even, then they both head for the LOS, lol. I know that sounds crazy but that seems like how Madden would ordinarily do it, the way defenders sync up with each other currently. Anyway, I see what you are saying now completely with "Show Blitz" being a manual timing mechanic instead of how it works now. I like it!

Yeah, see on a play like that SS Overload 3 that backer has to hit the line first to set the lane for the SS. The one thing I do not like about plays like this in Madden is ideally I would have the WILB lined up on the line of scrimmage opposite B gap from the blitz. Have him showing bluff. The NB should also show bluff off the left side. I hit show blitz the WILB and NB stay showing bluff the SILB and SS come charge the right side of the line, on the snap I get a blitz on the right and the WILB and NB dropping out into coverage.

[jyoung]

Man, I remember playing 2K and 2K1 on the Dreamcast for the first time and seeing AI defenders sprint up to the line right before a blitz. That was mind-blowing back in 1999 - 2000.

Also, the defensive linemen in those games would sometimes try to get an extra step on the offensive linemen by jumping through the neutral zone a little ahead of the snap.

All of that stuff was AI controlled. The developers just wrote extra behavior scripts for the defenders to follow on blitz plays.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Yeah, see on a play like that SS Overload 3 that backer has to hit the line first to set the lane for the SS. The one thing I do not like about plays like this in Madden is ideally I would have the WILB lined up on the line of scrimmage opposite B gap from the blitz. Have him showing bluff. The NB should also show bluff off the left side. I hit show blitz the WILB and NB stay showing bluff the SILB and SS come charge the right side of the line, on the snap I get a blitz on the right and the WILB and NB dropping out into coverage.

That second blitz isn't something you're going to see too much of. I'm not saying it couldn't ever be run, it's sound in the sense that it is 3 under 3 deep, but it is asking way too much out of the LILB. How is he supposed to get to flats on the other side of the formation? If it's 2x2, it's an easy completion.

Just to play devil's advocate with the first blitz, when the offense sees the LILB creeping outside (using your manual show blitz idea), they should zone that off and pick up all the rushers. This is how this stuff gets picked up on saturdays and sundays. Little tip-offs like that, especially DL tightening their techniques, is what leads to fire-zones being blocked. In reality, most fire-zones get blocked. It is more common that there is no free rusher than when there is one.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

That second blitz isn't something you're going to see too much of. I'm not saying it couldn't ever be run, it's sound in the sense that it is 3 under 3 deep, but it is asking way too much out of the LILB. How is he supposed to get to flats on the other side of the formation? If it's 2x2, it's an easy completion. Just to play devil's advocate with the first blitz, when the offense sees the LILB creeping outside (using your manual show blitz idea), they should zone that off and pick up all the rushers. This is how this stuff gets picked up on saturdays and sundays. Little tip-offs like that, especially DL tightening their techniques, is what leads to fire-zones being blocked. In reality, most fire-zones get blocked. It is more common that there is no free rusher than when there is one.

Yeah that second one you won't see much of. I just used that one as an example. To be truthful I don't like a lot of the zone blitzes in Madden because most of them = easy completion.

[bukktown]

Dice this game is designed for the 8 year old sim gamer, we should be lucky to get a show blitz left-center-right.

[PSUEagle]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

That second blitz isn't something you're going to see too much of. I'm not saying it couldn't ever be run, it's sound in the sense that it is 3 under 3 deep, but it is asking way too much out of the LILB. How is he supposed to get to flats on the other side of the formation? If it's 2x2, it's an easy completion. Just to play devil's advocate with the first blitz, when the offense sees the LILB creeping outside (using your manual show blitz idea), they should zone that off and pick up all the rushers. This is how this stuff gets picked up on saturdays and sundays. Little tip-offs like that, especially DL tightening their techniques, is what leads to fire-zones being blocked. In reality, most fire-zones get blocked. It is more common that there is no free rusher than when there is one.

I agree with this: that's a blitz that really can only be run against 3X1. And even then, you would need to have the backside corner locked up in man coverage. The backer playing Seam/Curl/Flat (SCIF) would then relate to the first crosser or to the back if he releases weak. But since the offense is usually going to slide weak in turn protection (half-slide), the back will probably go to the other side (since the back and center almost never go to the same side in Pass Pro unless the QB makes a TOM [Tailback On Mike] call).

It also illustrates my earlier points about how blitzes need to be adaptable based on offensive formations: certain stock pressures can't be run against certain formations and still be "sound." Different guys will pressure based on the offensive set. For example, against 2X2 with two detached slot receivers, a 3-4 team playing Quarters really can't pressure an OLB in the Base defense because they need them both to walk out and at least apex (split the difference) between the receivers and offensive tackles to their respective sides. If the formation were 2X2 with a TE in the box, though, you can pressure with the SOLB.

Little details like the above is the difference between playing successful team defense: if you're unsound in alignment you're beaten from the start.

Back on topic: I would set up the show blitz mechanic so that guys would start milling around like the Steelers do in their "Chaos" package. Once you hit the button, you're stuck with it: you can't change back unless you audible the entire defense (to prevent the shake blitz).

I also want an option to pick what kind of pre-snap shell I want on defense: I don't necessarily always want to start my alignment in 2 High every snap and roll late. However, either way I want my backers to pre-align where they need to be: i.e, If I'm in an Under front and I have my safety rolling weak the WILL and MIKE better ****ing BOSS (Bump Out Strong).

Good post.