How Madden can be made a simulator viably

[StrawHat Patriot]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigeastbumrush

I never once said sim is not fun. I just said that some of the things that you would want incorporated in Madden can be done outside of the game. That's what software developers are for. I've seen basketball coaches drawing up plays on the sideline with an iPad. That doesn't mean that 2K needs to implement some Playbook mode within their game. The videogames...no matter how sim they are...simply cannot lose the fun factor and start turning games into tasks.

It doesn't have to be so complicated and limited. Have slider/gameplay sets to choose.

Being a coach doesn't have to be hard either. Just look at film, and select plays you need to use.

[PioneerRaptor]

I have no problem with the game play becoming more and more sim, as that wouldn't have a negative effect on the fun factor.

However, when I'm playing my franchise mode (only mode I play), I don't want to simulate real coaching, as in it takes a week to prepare for a game. I don't need hundreds of tasks before I ever get to play a game. You could make that stuff optional, but that is still a lot of resources going into something I don't believe many people would use. Heck, as much as I like the presentation improvements, I'm not going to watch that stuff. I don't have enough time to sit through and watch every single replay, intro, outro, quarter break, half-time.

Edit: And being a coach is extremely hard. I've coached Flag Football (which isn't even close to the same complexity as the NFL), and even that can be difficult. Coaching isn't about just watching film, there is a lot more. If it was so easy, then coaching wouldn't matter so much in the NFL (which is obviously does).

[ozzy57]

To address one statement EA knows what I want more then I do.

I disagree with this and don't like this statement. Like it or not tourney players are a big part of Madden. EA is going to make sure that the game isn't to complex or have a large number of complex things in this game. EA isn't telling you what you want EA is telling you what sells. Yes I would like some more realism in the game. No I don't think EA tells me how I want to play the game I think they are telling me that our way continues to sell.

I also agree that most people won't use all the "sim" options that they would put in. A lot of people I know play Madden and love the fact its not sim. They love having 103 to 98 scores. They don't want the complexity of the game to change. I'm not saying I don't want it to but to make it a true "Sim" it would have to be more complex. If you don't agree with me think about the thought process behind defensive and offensive play calling. People who don't understand that coverages and line stunts are tied together would get burned by stupid play calling and quit playing. EA doesn't want to lose these consumers.

If someone made a "True Sim" game especially on consoles I wonder how well it would really sale.

[Flamehead]

Quote: Originally Posted by ozzy57

Like it or not tourney players are a big part of Madden. EA is going to make sure that the game isn't to complex or have a large number of complex things in this game.

And while the tourney crowd and their mentality has seemingly been a point of emphasis for EA this gen, Madden has also, in kind, garnered the reputation as being the most underwhelming, underdeveloped sports title throughout this gen's cycle. I don't believe this is merely coincidence.

Sells? Perhaps. I wouldn't claim to be an expert on their sales as a) I'm not really interested in their sales, and b) for every article that says Madden's sales are slipping, there seems to be another article claiming it's on par or better, and vice-versa. I'd argue part of what "sells" here is the fact that it's the only NFL game available.

That said, I don't see why the "realism" crowd has to work around the tourney emphasis. I submit that EA has nothing to lose by making the tourney crowd work around a realism emphasis by having them switch off sliders and other options, like penalties or whatever they think gets in their way. Again, they won't go anywhere if the game becomes more realistic. Options.

[StrawHat Patriot]

Quote: Originally Posted by PioneerRaptor

I have no problem with the game play becoming more and more sim, as that wouldn't have a negative effect on the fun factor. However, when I'm playing my franchise mode (only mode I play), I don't want to simulate real coaching, as in it takes a week to prepare for a game. I don't need hundreds of tasks before I ever get to play a game. You could make that stuff optional, but that is still a lot of resources going into something I don't believe many people would use. Heck, as much as I like the presentation improvements, I'm not going to watch that stuff. I don't have enough time to sit through and watch every single replay, intro, outro, quarter break, half-time. Edit: And being a coach is extremely hard. I've coached Flag Football (which isn't even close to the same complexity as the NFL), and even that can be difficult. Coaching isn't about just watching film, there is a lot more. If it was so easy, then coaching wouldn't matter so much in the NFL (which is obviously does).

Like I said, they can making the real coaching aspect be more simple, like this:

Watch film. (Replays of your opponent's last game)
Prepare a gameplan. (Select plays to use in the game which is optional, or let the cpu decide depending on if you choose air it out, run the ball, balanced, play action and run, blitz, cover 1, zone blitz, etc.)
Simulate your players practice. (or do it yourself to manage players behavior/ego/attitude/etc. (optional)

[PioneerRaptor]

Quote: Originally Posted by StrawHat Patriot

Like I said, they can making the real coaching aspect be more simple, like this: Watch film. (Replays of your opponent's last game) Prepare a gameplan. (Select plays to use in the game which is optional, or let the cpu decide depending on if you choose air it out, run the ball, balanced, play action and run, blitz, cover 1, zone blitz, etc.) Simulate your players practice. (or do it yourself to manage players behavior/ego/attitude/etc. (optional)

Why would I need to choose plays ahead of time? I can do all of that in-game. Going into the game, I already can see their yearly stats and how they've been doing. So I fire up the game and I already have a gameplan, I don't need to select individual plays. I'm going to know if I want to run or pass or whatever it is I want to do. I don't see why we would need extra steps to simulate that.

Also, that isn't even close to all a head coach does. You either want full simulation, or you don't. If you don't, that's okay. It sounds to me, you want a little more depth, but not too much more. Which is perfectly fine, because if they went full simulation, the game would no longer be fun, it would become a chore.

EDIT: I am only referring to the out-of-game aspects. The gameplay can be fully sim, as I believe that we actually make the game more fun.

[StrawHat Patriot]

Quote: Originally Posted by PioneerRaptor

Why would I need to choose plays ahead of time? I can do all of that in-game. Going into the game, I already can see their yearly stats and how they've been doing. So I fire up the game and I already have a gameplan, I don't need to select individual plays. I'm going to know if I want to run or pass or whatever it is I want to do. I don't see why we would need extra steps to simulate that. Also, that isn't even close to all a head coach does. You either want full simulation, or you don't. If you don't, that's okay. It sounds to me, you want a little more depth, but not too much more. Which is perfectly fine, because if they went full simulation, the game would no longer be fun, it would become a chore. EDIT: I am only referring to the out-of-game aspects. The gameplay can be fully sim, as I believe that we actually make the game more fun.

I'm not saying that I want in between I'm just saying it should be more sim than it is, and that more sim wouldn't necessarily mean too much of a shore if implemented less um less fully so that even hardcore nfl fans don't have to do a task.

[MissionMaximus]

Quote: Originally Posted by ozzy57

To address one statement EA knows what I want more then I do. I disagree with this and don't like this statement. Like it or not tourney players are a big part of Madden. EA is going to make sure that the game isn't to complex or have a large number of complex things in this game. EA isn't telling you what you want EA is telling you what sells. Yes I would like some more realism in the game. No I don't think EA tells me how I want to play the game I think they are telling me that our way continues to sell. I also agree that most people won't use all the "sim" options that they would put in. A lot of people I know play Madden and love the fact its not sim. They love having 103 to 98 scores. They don't want the complexity of the game to change. I'm not saying I don't want it to but to make it a true "Sim" it would have to be more complex. If you don't agree with me think about the thought process behind defensive and offensive play calling. People who don't understand that coverages and line stunts are tied together would get burned by stupid play calling and quit playing. EA doesn't want to lose these consumers. If someone made a "True Sim" game especially on consoles I wonder how well it would really sale.

Compare Madden to other games the Show, NBA2k, Fifa in terms of gameplay and presentation. Do you think Madden is on par with those games? To me Madden has become stagnant in every aspect compared to those games.
I wonder where we would be in videogame football without the exclusive licenses? Would it be like what we have now in NBA videogames? If 2k could do what they did in 2k5 what would we have now in 2012? Compare what we have now with the NBA2k series and NBA Live, that's been a 1st round knockout.