Does the ratings team even watch the NFL?

[StrawHat Patriot]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

Quit being such a jerk, we not bashing or anything of the sort man, we wish that guys like you would actually speak up in you sessions with the develop instead of acting like some star struck female who just seen Denzel Washington! This has been an issue for years and goes to show (for now) that the chosen who get to go to these community events don't really give a darn. Honestly I'm getting too old for this and its nerve racking. So sit back and take your blinders off and see the world as we see it instead of you're "its better than nothing" outlook on this. Remember, you knew about lack of online franchise features 2yrs ago and became somewhat of a savior at the time for EA's neglecting a feature we begged for to be updated. You were happy with that remember? Someone quote this post so dude can understand we not here on Some hate on EA crusade, no DB in the NFL should be able to pancake or out block Olinemen and shed them as gracefully as they do in madden, that mis-match should cleay be favored for the.offense.hands down forcing the defense to call a timeout or something other than letting that crap happen time and time again.

This, I mean, I don't know if I would've said that way just to avoid any argument, but, you said it spot on. I agree.

[DCEBB2001]

Personally, I feel that the ratings team needs a more solid methodology with great primary source material. Since Madden measures a player's abilities, they should utilize data that measures ability as well.

Scouting data from real scouting services can do this. Look at scout.inc for example. They give ratings and grades every preseason for all the players on NFL teams each year. If you have ESPN Insider, you can see them. All of their ratings are based on the grades of individual skills.

The big thing I think people get confused on is stats. They think that stats, not skills should determine ratings. The EA crew is no different in this falacy. Sure, they may utilize profootballfocus every once in a while, but they don't stick too well to what real data would determine.

To illustrate this point, let's say you have two QBs. QB A averages 10 YPA and QB B only averages 9 YPA. So by looking at this stat, you would say that QB A must have a bigger arm because he averaged more yards per attempt. What you may not know, however, is that QB A has a stacked set of WRs who excel in YAC (yards after catch). Perhaps the team runs a ton of screen passes where the QB is not required to throw very hard or very far, but the gain could be massive if the defense is caught out of position. Therefore, simply "watching the game" doesn't always yield the correct analysis of a skill set either. Trends are the same way. Just because there is a trend does not infer causality.

To me, this whole ratings thing should either be up to professional scouts who have trained their eyes to measure such skill sets, or up to those who can properly quantify/qualify data gathered by said scouts. Each NFL team has a professional scouting department in addition to it's college scouting department, in order to scout other pros from other teams. Since they collect data, why not bring in their expertise into the ratings process?

Even better would be if they outsourced the ratings process to an indipendent, unbiased group to undertake it. Everyone wants their favorite team to be stacked, but that is not realistic. I would love for my Packers to be the best at every position, but that isn't fun to me. It is not a simulation of real life as I feel Madden should be. That is why I cannot stand the voting on these ratings. Where is the objectivity in that? Where is the verifiable data? Where is the proper interpolation? Polls like that are useless because they are limited and are not mutually exclusive.

The other thing that muddies this is that darn OVR rating. When I spoke via phone conference with Moore, Looman, and 3 others last August I was amazed to find that there is a TON of pressure from the marketing departments to inflate player ratings because of popularity. Donny Moore straight-out asked me how I would handle pressure from "above" to change a player's ratings even if you don't believe it is warranted. Needless to say, in order to keep your job, you would have to comply. So, this discovery also points to the problems that the business marketing models impose upon the development of the game.

To me that shows that the only way to really inact any change is to do it with your walets. Keep your hard-earned cash and refuse to buy the product until it changes. The only issue is that many out there will find this proposal unacceptable and will stay content with an inferior and flawed product. If you want to send a message, you will have to hit them where it hurts the most.

[roadman]

Aha, there is those two words I despise, Marketing and Department.

[Stampede_94]

Quote: Originally Posted by StrawHat Patriot

This, I mean, I don't know if I would've said that way just to avoid any argument, but, you said it spot on. I agree.

100% agree.

[cuttingteeth]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

When I spoke via phone conference with Moore, Looman, and 3 others last August I was amazed to find that there is a TON of pressure from the marketing departments to inflate player ratings because of popularity. Donny Moore straight-out asked me how I would handle pressure from "above" to change a player's ratings even if you don't believe it is warranted. Needless to say, in order to keep your job, you would have to comply.

Not sure if you've read it on here, but this is exactly why I'm proposing they shift the focus of their jobs to make a Teambuilder style website for Madden finally. Donny and the ratings team can make their template rosters (or just one to start out with), and like with NCAA, all the rest will be up to us. Donny and co. will still have solid, continuous job security keeping up with the website. I think it's the best solution, as no one loses their job, plus it allows for extreme user customization, which equals via DIY, there should be no complaints anymore about ratings/equipment/height/weight/hair style/etc.

[Stampede_94]

Quote: Originally Posted by cuttingteeth

Not sure if you've read it on here, but this is exactly why I'm proposing they shift the focus of their jobs to make a Teambuilder style website for Madden finally. Donny and the ratings team can make their template rosters (or just one to start out with), and like with NCAA, all the rest will be up to us. Donny and co. will still have solid, continuous job security keeping up with the website. I think it's the best solution, as no one loses their job, plus it allows for extreme user customization, which equals via DIY, there should be no complaints anymore about ratings/equipment/height/weight/hair style/etc.

Well said CT. I think they are very comfortable in their jobs right now, and NO ONE in that type of position should ever feel comfortable in a job. It's a constant rush all season to make sure they keep taking their system to the next level, and these guys are still quite a few years back. Well thought out idea.

[moneal2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by SA1NT401

There are plenty of guys here on OS including myself who could do me moores job 100x better.... Fact. no its your Opinion? we get it you dont like his ratings. but not everyone feels like you. I edited just about every player in M12 ( sad I know) where the highest rated player in the entire game was Rodgers at a 94..... Average starter was a 74. With great sliders, players actually played and felt completely different. With Donny's ratings, every single player just feels the same more or less where a 60 OVR WR played just like ....( insert any WR). now this is just bs. So a 60 Ovr played like Fitzgerald or Megatron under Donny's, yet under yours a 74 Qb felt different than Rodgers. We need editing back. Don't see how donny editing ratings is any different than us editing rosters for use in CC. They just DON'T want us doing it cuz they want us to play madden THEIR way. Where did you hear that they just dont want us to get editing back? they have never said it anywhere. you are just pissed that you can't do it and are accusing them of something when you have no proof. they have said that they want to get features in that we lost. by the logic of madden 12, Josh Looman gave us full editing within Franchise so that shows otherwise. People don't take into account that the mode was built from scratch and didn't have the time to test out some of the features to make sure that those things worked. Making sure that editing works correctly is a big task. Heck NFL2k5 had editing and when you did the game froze alot when you edited players. but i guess you guys would rather have editing and only be able to play one season in CC than to have it working right next year.

my comments in bold.

[Stampede_94]

Quote: Originally Posted by moneal2001

my comments in bold.

They have had YEARS to work most of these things out, and instead of improvements, we get excuses. You can't blame the guy for being fed up at this point.

You want to be the only NFL game in town, then come correct on all levels.