"All-Madden'ing" still exists

[Jarodd21]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Sounds like what happened to the Bengals this past week... If it was the other way around, that is if the user was down at halftime and made an improbable comeback I'm willing to be that it would not be a complaint. Instead the user would post in another thread detailing the "epic game" they just finished. I am at week 8 of year two and have not seen anything resembling all madden cheat mode. If anything the AI tends to roll over and fail to provide a challenge. Its funny. Many posters are demanding more of an adaptive AI while other posters scream about the 2nd half super AI as is.

Haha! Yeah man if the USER pulls off a comeback like that you definitely would be seeing threads about an epic comeback.. Some guys simply can't take losing man..

If EA ever made Madden with an adaptive AI you'll definitely hear more complaints about USERs being cheated because the CPU knew all of there plays.. It's real shocking to see that some guys still feel cheated with how weak the AI is in CCM..

[Jarodd21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nunyerbiz

I'm not mad about it at all really, just that I notice it happens... And it swings both ways. Earlier in the year, I devastated the Steelers. They could do absolutely nothing right at all... It was seriously like I was playing on Pro or Rookie difficulty. I don't think I threw more than 5 or 6 passes the entire 2nd half and still killed them by over 4 TDs... By the fourth quarter I was purposely running Benjarvis into linebackers to bring up three and out situations so I could punt. I would just like some more consistency... and less wild swings to either extreme.

I wasn't directing that at you I was speaking in general how some gamers are when the CPU pulls off a nice comeback..

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jarodd21

My thing is does it always have to be considered that you got cheated by the AI on All-Madden just because a team gets hot in the second half and dominate on both sides of the ball? Stuff like this happens in real life. I especially wouldn't be mad about if it only happens once in a while. It seems like some guys get upset everything the CPU gets hot and make a run and claim they got cheated.. It's hard for me to sit back and think of a time when I had a big lead on the CPU and they came back and won on any of the last few Maddens.. I believe some guys like to try and pad the stats instead of playing smart when there up big and it back fires on them..

I don't have the game, but it sounds like it's similar to last year's "tale of two halves", where the game actually makes it happen instead of it just being my players "getting lucky" on their rolls on the first half and then it coming back to normal in the second, and vice versa.

I have seen the CPU play completely different (again, in M12) and I check ratings and it's not as though I was holding down a top team and they broke out. Likewise when it works in my team's favor. I check ratings and the other team didn't suck (or I know my QB isn't that good, yet he looks like Montana and I don't play any different - the players are just suddenly being perfect).

I agree that things like that SOMETIMES happen in real life, and it would be nice if it was more than just randomness (and if it's tied to skill level, i.e. on All-Madden but not All-Pro, well that's already overly artificial since it only occurs on one setting) - like a trait where players are fine as long as things go their way, but if the other team does mount a rally, they panic, especially on the road. They get too aggressive, exposing themselves to more mistakes, etc. Then it would be more realistic. I feel that skills don't change - but stamina and decision-making (especially) does and maybe should go hand-in-hand (player feels like he's losing a step so he may over-commit to compensate, etc).

If I have a well-coached, highly-skilled and disciplined (good AWR and such) defense, why would they ever fall apart if my playcalling stays on point? If they do get broken down and come back on, it shouldn't be because it's a "tale of two halves" game. It should be because the other offense continued to work, my offense doesn't do what they need to do to get 1st downs (maybe I got TOO conservative like Redskins did with RG3) or commits turnovers, and even then, it shouldn't always happen (like it didn't with the Redskins - they still won because Brees failed the comeback).

I agree that sometimes people might not be handling the situation right. I know there's been times where I didn't in M12. I either got too aggressive in my playcalling, taking guys out of position and not just letting them go to work (especially defensively). But I don't think it means there's nothing that could be improved within the game in this regard, especially if that stuff about the "game types" is/was/still is true. That stuff needs to go. The "game type" should happen organically based on the flow of the game. Not like a "global modifier" to all players.

[colonialbob]

I tend to agree with you. Big lead should turn into a possession game. Play field position, work clock and play soft and or base defenses. I have definitely experienced the CPU getting "hot" late in games. In a recent 15 min campaign game, I gave up 20 points in a hurry to the CPU but managed to grind it out in the end. But I have certainly lost quite a few over the years when the CPU gets unstoppable. If it NEVER happened I dont think it would be quite as enjoyable for me

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Sounds like what happened to the Bengals this past week... If it was the other way around, that is if the user was down at halftime and made an improbable comeback I'm willing to be that it would not be a complaint. Instead the user would post in another thread detailing the "epic game" they just finished. I am at week 8 of year two and have not seen anything resembling all madden cheat mode. If anything the AI tends to roll over and fail to provide a challenge. Its funny. Many posters are demanding more of an adaptive AI while other posters scream about the 2nd half super AI as is.

To me, the AI can be/should be adaptive without any boosting or such (beyond sliders).

I know I always wanted more challenge from the AI, but the challenge I got too often was from just what was described, not that the AI EVER adapted to what I was doing to it. It was also too much on the stopping the offense and not enough cracking its defense. Only occasionally did the AI truly play lock down "what the heck can I do?" defense. When it happened, those games were intense, hard-hitting (since I had a similar defense), pressure-filled, and fun as heck.

I would LOVE for the AI to see that if I'm running the ball down its throat - it adapts and puts 8 in the box without totally selling out (like Engage Eight if that play still exists). I would LOVE to see that AI see that I am favoring one target in the passing game and double/bracket/zone rotate to that side. Or that the AI sees that I'm like 1 for 10 against the blitz, so I see lots of various kinds of blitz, especially in long yardage.

Adaptive AI would allow setting up plays and attacks, allow you/the AI to play deception, etc.

But I didn't see that (maybe in M13 it happens). I just saw the sudden 'perfect' execution of the same plays in the same situations. Not that it found a weakness in my defense and is now attacking that, and so on.

[Franchise408]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jarodd21

My thing is does it always have to be considered that you got cheated by the AI on All-Madden just because a team gets hot in the second half and dominate on both sides of the ball? Stuff like this happens in real life. I especially wouldn't be mad about if it only happens once in a while. It seems like some guys get upset everything the CPU gets hot and make a run and claim they got cheated.. It's hard for me to sit back and think of a time when I had a big lead on the CPU and they came back and won on any of the last few Maddens.. I believe some guys like to try and pad the stats instead of playing smart when there up big and it back fires on them..

My problem wasn't that the CPU was making a comeback, I was happy about that, or even that it was a 38-7 comeback, but rather the fact that the comeback was due to the CPU intercepting nearly every pass that I threw, and if somehow I did complete the pass, the receiver would fumble the ball when he got hit. I think I had a run where 4 or 5 consecutive tackles against me resulted in fumbles. My QB was literally throwing the ball to the wrong receiver (it wasn't a case of me pushing the wrong button), instead of throwing a bullet to an open receiver downfield, my QB threw a lob to a covered receiver underneath, right into the hands of the CPU defender. That's blatant CPU cheating. That's not just a case of making a comeback.

[Jarodd21]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

I don't have the game, but it sounds like it's similar to last year's "tale of two halves", where the game actually makes it happen instead of it just being my players "getting lucky" on their rolls on the first half and then it coming back to normal in the second, and vice versa. I have seen the CPU play completely different (again, in M12) and I check ratings and it's not as though I was holding down a top team and they broke out. Likewise when it works in my team's favor. I check ratings and the other team didn't suck (or I know my QB isn't that good, yet he looks like Montana and I don't play any different - the players are just suddenly being perfect). I agree that things like that SOMETIMES happen in real life, and it would be nice if it was more than just randomness (and if it's tied to skill level, i.e. on All-Madden but not All-Pro, well that's already overly artificial since it only occurs on one setting) - like a trait where players are fine as long as things go their way, but if the other team does mount a rally, they panic, especially on the road. They get too aggressive, exposing themselves to more mistakes, etc. Then it would be more realistic. I feel that skills don't change - but stamina and decision-making (especially) does and maybe should go hand-in-hand (player feels like he's losing a step so he may over-commit to compensate, etc). If I have a well-coached, highly-skilled and disciplined (good AWR and such) defense, why would they ever fall apart if my playcalling stays on point? If they do get broken down and come back on, it shouldn't be because it's a "tale of two halves" game. It should be because the other offense continued to work, my offense doesn't do what they need to do to get 1st downs (maybe I got TOO conservative like Redskins did with RG3) or commits turnovers, and even then, it shouldn't always happen (like it didn't with the Redskins - they still won because Brees failed the comeback). I agree that sometimes people might not be handling the situation right. I know there's been times where I didn't in M12. I either got too aggressive in my playcalling, taking guys out of position and not just letting them go to work (especially defensively). But I don't think it means there's nothing that could be improved within the game in this regard, especially if that stuff about the "game types" is/was/still is true. That stuff needs to go. The "game type" should happen organically based on the flow of the game. Not like a "global modifier" to all players.

It's nothing like 12 KB. The AI is so weak in CCM that you would probably beg for them to make some kind of run like that just to get a good game. Trust me when I tell you that. Just read around the forum on in the slider section. CCM is broken. The DEVs already acknowledged that it's a big because the sliders don't work the same in CCM as they do in play now.

[Jarodd21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Franchise408

My problem wasn't that the CPU was making a comeback, I was happy about that, or even that it was a 38-7 comeback, but rather the fact that the comeback was due to the CPU intercepting nearly every pass that I threw, and if somehow I did complete the pass, the receiver would fumble the ball when he got hit. I think I had a run where 4 or 5 consecutive tackles against me resulted in fumbles. My QB was literally throwing the ball to the wrong receiver (it wasn't a case of me pushing the wrong button), instead of throwing a bullet to an open receiver downfield, my QB threw a lob to a covered receiver underneath, right into the hands of the CPU defender. That's blatant CPU cheating. That's not just a case of making a comeback.

I can sympathize with the fumbles even though I haven't experienced anything as crazy as you are describing but I simply blame the USER for most INTs especially USERs who don't utilize the left stick. One of the best features they added to the game this year was all the new passing trajectories with the left stick but it's still guys who don't like to take advantage of it and still depend on the AI to place passes for them by just pressing the button.. If you work on using the left stick for almost all of your throws you will not throw INTs like that unless you have a bad QB or you place the pass wrong. If you continue to leave it up to the AI you'll get games like that sometimes unless your raise the USER accuracy some more.. It usually my fault when I throw INTs like that but once you built a lead like that you shouldn't of been throwing that much anyway..

Even if they are stuffing your run and playing tight coverage on your WRs you have to continue to play smart. Take the sack or throw the ball away.. Alot of guys don't like to throw the ball away. They rather force the pass and get mad with the results. I throw the ball away alot in my games if the coverage looks tight. Punt the ball and continue playing good defense..