New thought for locomotion (long read)

[UMhester04]

First of all I would like to apologize to my parents for daydreaming about this while in class and basically not learning anything for a few days.


I will start this out by saying that I am pretty frustrated with the locomotion system in EA sports football games. I will not touch on this very much, but pretty much everybody that watches football can see there are problems with the way people move in these games.

After I bought 13, I was satisfied, but was yearning for more. I feel that I have thought of a pretty unique way to move around in the EA Sports Football games and would like to share this with everyone. I really think that this addition would bring a great deal of excitement into the game that has been absent for years. Obviously I would want this idea to be read by the developers, but I am no idiot and am sure this wont be – however if any of you are frustrated with the locomotion system, I encourage you to dream on with me and look over the rest of this write up. Thank you to everyone that does.


The system I have in mind is nothing like we have now. Before I even start describing it, I would like everyone to think of how titles like skate work for EA. There are tons of tricks in that game that you can find out on your own. All of those tricks are based upon a few things:

1. The right analog stick controls ollies/flip tricks
2. The L2 and R2 buttons control your left and right hand respectively
3. Circle and X control your right and left foot (pushing off)

Mixing and matching these buttons, you can come up with some really creative tricks. The key thing here is that unlike the Tony Hawk games which mapped flip tricks to one button, the skate team focused on the analog sticks and triggers – then encouraged you to find out different tricks on your own. The system I thought of goes with some of these concepts.


In a nut shell, what you would do to run is methodically move the left and right analog sticks down separately, mimicking the way your legs would move to run. The basic idea (running straight) would be moving the left stick down while the right analog stick is neutral, then let go of the left stick and move the right one down, then left, then right, etc. The principle here is that you will move them down to “drive” into the ground like you are running (this thought will be important in a few minutes).

Now I know some of you may be thinking a lot of things such as how this will work, how you will do special moves, how you will do other basic moves if the stick that is normally used to move all over is now the stick that controls the left leg, etc. Believe me when I say I have thought long and hard about this and have come up with ways for this to work. I will break them down into categories.

A. Route running (player mode)
B. Catching
C. Ball Carrier movement
D. Defensive players

My initial idea had me thinking of the CCM player mode as a Wide Receiver because playing as a WR is very dull and boring. All you do is follow your route and that’s it - YAWN. In my perfect world I would have this with a first person camera and this is the way I dreamt it up, so to get the full effect please picture the next parts happening from inside a helmet. However one way that a camera could work is being in third person mode directly behind the head and raised a little bit.


Route running (player mode)


YOUR ROUTE: 10 yard out route, lined up wide right.

You begin your play on the line and your first choice is which foot you want to have up front and what one to have in the back. To do this - and get in position to run - all you will do is pull whatever stick you want to go back (LS=left leg, RS=right leg) straight down. When this happens your head automatically turns toward the line to see when the QB hikes the ball.

**To lay out what we are trying to do here, in order, we will – run, break down, cut to the right (because its an out route; camera turns once the cut is performed), turn head, catch.**


Lets say we started with our right leg back since we are lined up on the right side of the ball. Once the ball is hiked (the right stick is still held straight down) we let go of the right stick and push down the left to start running. The sequence will go like this (and we will incorporate new things):

1. Left stick down, Right stick down, Left stick down, Right stick down, etc until we get 10 yards deep.
2. Once we get ten yards deep, we will simultaneously push both sticks straight down to go into a “break down” animation.
3. Since our route is a 10 yard out route, we will push the LS to the LEFT (remember every step you make is “driving” your foot into a particular direction to move the opposite way, picture looking down at your feet and making a cut to the right – you end up planting and “driving” your left foot into the ground, which looks like this: your foot sticks into the ground for a second and then you drive (or push) your weight to the left, which in turn forces your body to move to the right) So the action to complete the cut coming from the break down animation would be:

LS Left, RS Left.

Once this action is complete the camera (remember you are in the First Person View) will turn to the direction you just turned your player to. In our case the camera will turn with our player running towards the right sideline.


4. Now to snap your head to the ball, all you will do is press R1. Once you do this, your running will be put into “Auto-Pilot”.
5. To catch (this is new) you will control your right hand with R2 and left hand with L2. Simply time it right and push both of these buttons down to catch the ball.
6. Now to run after the catch all you do is let go of either L2 or R2, and the one you kept held down is the arm that you bring the ball into.


I tried to explain that first because that got a ton of things out of the way at one time. Now if you are still reading, lets move to Ball Carrier Movement.



Ball Carrier Movement


The way you move is by “driving” your feet into the ground (with the sticks of course). This will hold true for every type of movement I will explain next. I will paint out a picture of a basic run. First I will explain what actually happens and second I will explain the controller input to make that movement happen.

The RB takes the handoff and runs straight through the line of scrimmage un-touched (I know its unlikely, have an imagination for me). He has blockers in front of him and sees an open lane to the right, cuts that way, then cuts back up-field to get passed the black on his right and then runs straight into the end zone.


To do this you will start off running straight (LS down, RS down, etc), once you see the lane to the right you will put the LS DOWN AND TO THE LEFT (about 7 o clock) because we want to cut with our left foot first, then the RS in the same direction (again picture yourself looking down at your feet, once you begin the cut to the right your left foot goes into the ground first, followed by the right foot, driving in the same direction that you just pushed the sticks). Once you complete the cut (LS down+left, RS down+left) the camera turns into the direction your facing so you continue to run with LS down, RS down, LS down, RS down, etc until you have to cut back up-field. When you want to cut back up field - remember you are facing (running towards) 2 o clock - you point the RS (you are planting with your right foot first on this cut) down and to the right, at about 5 o clock), then the LS in the same direction to complete the cut, then run straight to pay-dirt.


So to put it into simple terms, you run with LS down, RS down – and to complete a cut (turn) you pull the stick in the same way your foot will drive into the ground. However far you want to turn will depend on the angle you pull the stick down and to whatever direction you want. So if you are running straight and want to cut 90 degrees to the left sideline, you would put the RS (right foot) to the right, followed by the LS (left foot, because you have to finish the cut) in the same direction.




If anyone actually reads this and wants me to write up how more advanced jukes, spin moves, defensive players, and punt returners would work then please let me know. I am not sure if anyone is actually going to read this since it is so long, but if anyone wants to hear it then I would be happy to type it up.

[Big FN Deal]

OP I admittedly didn't read the entire op, it's kind of late at night, but I agree with your general premise that User control should be far more interactive. I have been saying for a while that there should be actual "skill" added to "stick skill". It really makes no sense, imo, to give the User the option of letting the AI player perform an action or taking control as the User, when the User control usually has the highest rate of success. This disconnect persists in many areas of Madden, like in regard to field goals. Again, I don't understand why there isn't a more challenging process for performing User kicks/punts and an option for allowing the AI player to handle it but that's another discussion.

I believe for User control, the main focus should be similar to that in NBA2k, utilizing a combination of controls and specific animation access. In the case of solely controlling a player, like in CCM, I think the focus should be on improving that player by gaining access to better and different animations, as well as learning how to utilize them with the controls.

[NateDogPack12]

Excellent write up. Two concerns I have:

(1) - this concept would completely alienate the casual gamer because of its complexity and learning curve.

(2) - This is the first year of real physics with a whole new generation of systems only a few years away that will improve the physics mapping potential. I see no need for this drastic a reform at this stage.

[TMJOHNS18]

Quote: Originally Posted by NateDogPack12

Excellent write up. Two concerns I have: (1) - this concept would completely alienate the casual gamer because of its complexity and learning curve. (2) - This is the first year of real physics with a whole new generation of systems only a few years away that will improve the physics mapping potential. I see no need for this drastic a reform at this stage.

Bold is all you need to know. Madden is all about picking up the controller and playing. Madden had more challenging concepts in the past (vision cone) and even the running type of input you mentioned OP (40 yard dash/bench press), but in the end stuff like that just disappears.

And with Madden's philosophy, Play the game the way WE want you to play it (even though they say otherwise), it's very unlikely that they will add anything new that isn't something you HAVE to use. They don't like giving the consumer the ability to turn features on or off, so I highly doubt we'd ever see a feature added that would greatly increase the difficulty of the core gameplay.

Fight for the fumble was a dumb feature, but it had a really good pile up sequence during fumbles (surprised they let us toggle it off). What do we get now? Guys play kickball, dive 5 yards past the ball, and even they manage to scoop it half the time the play is blown dead.

[justtxyank]

Quote: Originally Posted by NateDogPack12

(2) - This is the first year of real physics with a whole new generation of systems only a few years away that will improve the physics mapping potential. I see no need for this drastic a reform at this stage.

So exciting!

Can't wait for the next gen systems and all the improvements they will bring to Madden! If we are lucky, by the time the XBOX 1440 comes out they will have implemented a physics engine that takes advantage of XBOX 720. I won't be greedy and expect it to work properly though.

I'm getting so excited! Come 2025 with the release of XBOX 1440 Madden will be introducing their new InfinityPlus engine that won't work!

[UMhester04]

Quote: Originally Posted by TMJOHNS18

Bold is all you need to know. Madden is all about picking up the controller and playing. Madden had more challenging concepts in the past (vision cone) and even the running type of input you mentioned OP (40 yard dash/bench press), but in the end stuff like that just disappears. And with Madden's philosophy, Play the game the way WE want you to play it (even though they say otherwise), it's very unlikely that they will add anything new that isn't something you HAVE to use. They don't like giving the consumer the ability to turn features on or off, so I highly doubt we'd ever see a feature added that would greatly increase the difficulty of the core gameplay. Fight for the fumble was a dumb feature, but it had a really good pile up sequence during fumbles (surprised they let us toggle it off). What do we get now? Guys play kickball, dive 5 yards past the ball, and even they manage to scoop it half the time the play is blown dead.

I hear you on this one. I was honestly going to say a very easy option would be to just keep the option of normal movement in the settings for one to choose between the two, but you bring up a valid point. I only say this because if they were going to actually use this system then they would have to implement a new locomotion engine anyways, so the people that wanted to use normal controls would still have something new to look forward to either way.


I just wish something like this could be put in because it is a whole new way of playing. I know 2K changes controls a lot and it makes the game feel fresh each year (not saying Madden should change every single year, but a new way to play wouldn't hurt either; we have been playing the same way since football games first came out). I have plenty of other plans for punting/kicking and other stuff too that sound pretty cool (at least to me, i'm biased). If people want me to share them then please let me know.

[NateDogPack12]

Quote: Originally Posted by justtxyank

So exciting! Can't wait for the next gen systems and all the improvements they will bring to Madden! If we are lucky, by the time the XBOX 1440 comes out they will have implemented a physics engine that takes advantage of XBOX 720. I won't be greedy and expect it to work properly though. I'm getting so excited! Come 2025 with the release of XBOX 1440 Madden will be introducing their new InfinityPlus engine that won't work!

You mad bro?

[oo40oztofreedum]

I like the idea alot just maybe not for madden. if nfl endorsed another football game or maybe just another football game used ur method. i would def buy it and put alot of time into learning the controls cuz i read ur hole post and it sounds very intriging. its obvious u did put alot of time into thinkin how stuff would work and all that, dont give up on it and keep expanding it and who knows maybe you can pitch ur idea to someone who is actually able to create such a game... either way good stuff dude