Madden 25 should re-imagine how the series handles roster management

[CM Hooe]

I think that Madden - and NCAA too, for that matter, but this is the Madden forum - needs to become more accessible to the user with regard to roster management. Let me start with a screenshot of the Madden 13 roster interface.



I'll start immediately with the example above - I have no idea who is good at what skills based on what information is immediately presented on this screen, and further I have a tough time deciding starters at DT1 and DT2. I see that Linval Joseph probably should start, as he has the highest OVR rating and has youth on his side, but I have no idea what he's good at, why he should be playing over anyone else beyond the OVR rating, or any particular strategies I should employ should I choose to control him. The picture becomes even more muddy when attempting to pick the second starting defensive tackle; what's the biggest difference between me starting Marcus Thomas, Shaun Rogers, or Rocky Bernard? It's entirely unclear on this screen alone as to how any of these players fit into my defense, what each player's strengths and weaknesses are, or what high-level defensive strategies I should employ or eliminate based on just what I see immediately; I have to go dig for that information by trawling through the massive spreadsheet for specific number comparisons. I shouldn't have to do that much work just to figure out which guy is a better pass rusher, if I decide that's what I want from my DT2, for example.

A second example: assume for a moment that I just started a Career mode as the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys (a stretch, I know ). Imagine also that I am brand-new to the game of football and the NFL and that Madden 13 is my first NFL game; I know a few general concepts, such as that teams tend to move the football via running and passing, I know that defenders want to stop the passing game by sacking the quarterback or by intercepting passes. Along those lines, I know generally what the positions are - I know there's a quarterback who throws, running backs who run, wide receivers who catch, offensive linemen who block, defensive linemen who try to break blocks, and defensive backs who try to intercept passes, though I'm not clear on their exact responsibilities. Assume further that I have no specific knowledge about any player about the Cowboys' roster or in the NFL, and that I'm not well-versed on the particulars of the Madden player ratings system (honestly, who is?). A lot of assumptions, but hear me out.

I find myself at the View Roster screen looking at my team, and I'm presented with a massive spreadsheet of player ratings, overwhelming me foremost, but I decide to explore it a little bit. I see some of my top players belong on my defense - we'll cull it down to linebackers DeMarcus Ware and Anthony Spencer. The default scheme-specific overall ratings give me an idea that Ware and Spencer are both good players for my defense; assume I changed no defensive options because I don't know what they do. However, I have no idea exactly what my defense is or how to call my defense to put my players in a good position to win. I can't figure anything out about my players without a deep exploration of the roster interface. I could inadvertently set myself up for a lot of failure by dropping Ware and Spencer into zone coverage more often than not; the information about what they excel at is buried deep in the interface, and unless I go looking for it, I'm not going to find it.

A third example: let's say I'm playing as the Saints, and assume similar conditions to my previous example that I have only general knowledge. I find have a few good running backs on my roster - Darren Sproles, Pierre Thomas, Chris Ivory, and Mark Ingram. Again, without a deep exploration of the roster interface, I am not going to know how to deploy my players to put my team in the best position to win. I have no immediate idea that Sproles is not going to excel between the tackles but that he's going to be a weapon in the passing game. I have no idea that Ingram is going to be a better option as a between-the-tackles runner.

A thought unrelated to any specific example - nowhere on the Madden roster screen is it acknowledged that Dynamic Player Performance even exists. In order to see any DPP trait information, I must select one player and one player only. Comparisons between two players with different traits is unnecessarily difficult, since I can't view more than one player's traits at a time. The various traits further are not incorporated into the OVR rating whatsoever, and I argue they should be; for example, a receiver with "Drops Open Passes: Yes" should absolutely see an OVR penalty compared to a receiver without that trait, IMO.

To my point as to how Madden should change going forward: compare Madden's roster interface to a different sports game, NBA 2K13:



In less than ten seconds of study and exploration of this roster management interface with the selected team, in this case the Houston Rockets, I have an idea as to how I'd play with this team, despite that I only have a high-level knowledge of NBA basketball. I'd use Jeremy Lin as my primary ball handler, since he has the best Handle rating on my team. I'd use James Harden as my primary scorer and defender; he has the best combination of ratings at inside and outside scoring, and he's also my best inside - outside defender (obviously he's not going to be a force on the defensive block, but nevertheless overall he is my best defender on this page). I see that many players on my team are threats on offense from the outside, so I'd consider making a strong effort to set up more open looks from long distance. I see my team has reasonably high basketball IQ across the board, so I consider calling more dedicated plays rather than simply calling isolations all the time. I see my team is weak on interior defense and rebounding, so maybe I try to make a personnel move to bring in a stopper and cleanup guy down low.

There is no comparable accessibility in the roster interface in Madden. I am proposing that that needs to change.

Given that there are so many different positions with unique responsibilities in Madden, I first propose repurposing the "All" tab of the View Roster screen to not display ratings (arguably except OVR); there's no clear way to prioritize ratings for every position in the NFL when considering all players at the same time, regardless of position. The screen could then be used to display information commonly important to all players: total salary, years left on contract, age, accumulated XP, and Legacy Score are some ideas as to other useful information that could be placed here, which would make that information more accessible to the user and allow the team to remove some redundant screens from the CCM interface.

I then propose that the first four ratings I see for a position (i.e. if I scroll to Quarterbacks, I'm no longer viewing all players) vary based on what position. I would do this instead of prioritizing whatever ratings are important to that position (for example, I think for QB, the first few ratings that show up are THP, TAS, TAM, TAD, PAC, TOR, and AWR), since those ratings which can be weighted differently based on my scheme settings. The information I'd display instead in the first four columns would be some specific sub-overall ratings, which I propose as follows (the specific ratings checked could be up for debate, but the general idea is what I'm arguing for here):

Spoiler

• QB
  • Range - THP, TAD
  • Precision - TAS, TAM, TAD, TOR, Consistency DPP Trait
  • Intangibles - AWR, PAC, CAR, Senses Pressure DPP Trait, Throw Away DPP Trait, Brace For Hits DPP Trait, Clutch DPP Trait
  • Scrambling - SPD, ACC, BCV, CAR, TRK, ELU, SFA, SPM, JKM, TOR
• RB
  • Power - STR, TRK, SFA, ACC, Fight For Yards DPP Trait
  • Evasion - ELU, SPM, JKM, ACC, SPD, AGI
  • Receiver - CTH, RRT, CIT, SPC, RLS, Drops Open Passes DPP Trait, Feet In Bounds DPP Trait
  • Reliability - AWR, STA, INJ, TGH, CAR, Consistency DPP Trait, Brace For Hits DPP Trait, Clutch DPP Trait
• FB
  • Lead Blocker - RBK, IBL, AWR, STR, Consistency DPP Trait
  • Runner - BCV, TRK, SFA, SPM, JKM, ELU, CAR, Brace For Hits DPP Trait
  • Receiver - CTH, RRT, CIT, SPC, RLS, Drops Open Passes DPP Trait, Feet In Bounds DPP Trait
  • Athleticism - SPD, STR, AGI, ACC, JMP
• WR
  • Playmaker - SPC, CTH, CIT, JMP, Drops Open Passes DPP Trait, Fight For Yards DPP Trait, Clutch DPP Trait
  • Route Runner - RRT, RLS, ACC, AGI, CTH, Feet In Bounds DPP Trait, Consistency DPP Trait
  • Deep Threat - SPD, ACC, RLS, CTH, SPC, Drops Open Passes DPP Trait
  • Yards After Catch - ELU, TRK, SFA, SPM, JKM, CAR, BCV, Fight For Yards DPP Trait, Brace For Hits DPP Trait
• TE
  • Blocker - PBK, RBK, IBL, PBS, PBF, RBS, RBF
  • Receiver - CTH, CIT, RRT, SPC, RLS, Feet In Bounds DPP Trait, Drops Open Passes DPP Trait
  • Athleticism - SPD, STR, AGI, ACC, JMP
  • Yards After Catch - ELU, TRK, SFA, SPM, JKM, Fight For Yards DPP Trait, Brace For Hits DPP Trait
• OL
  • Pass Blocker - PBK, PBS, PBF, ACC, AGI
  • Run Blocker - RBK, RBS, RBF, IBL, STR
  • Technique - PBF, RBF, ACC, AGI, AWR
  • Dominance - PBS, RBS, STR, IBL, ACC, High Motor DPP Trait
• DL
  • Run Support - BSH, PRC, PUR, TKL, AWR
  • Pass Rush - PMV, FSM, ACC, PUR, PRC, Swim Move DPP Trait, Bull Rush DPP Trait, Spin Move DPP Trait
  • Explosion - SPD, STR, AGI, ACC, POW, High Motor DPP Trait, Big Hitter DPP Trait
  • Technique - PMV, FSM, BSH, TKL, AWR, Consistency DPP Trait
• LB
  • Run Support - BSH, PRC, PUR, TKL, AWR
  • Pass Rush - PMV, FSM, ACC, PUR, PRC, Swim Move DPP Trait, Bull Rush DPP Trait, Spin Move DPP Trait
  • Coverage - MCV, ZCV, PRS, PRC, AGI
  • Athleticism - SPD, STR, AGI, ACC, JMP, POW, High Motor DPP Trait, Big Hitter DPP Trait
• CB
  • Man - MCV, PRS, AGI, Play Ball In Air DPP Trait
  • Zone - ZCV, AWR, PRC, Play Ball In Air DPP Trait
  • Run Support - PUR, BSH, TKL, POW, Big Hitter DPP Trait
  • Athleticism - SPD, STR, AGI, ACC, High Motor DPP Trait
• S
  • Coverage - MCV, ZCV, PRS
  • Run Support - PUR, PRC, BSH, TKL, POW, Big Hitter DPP Trait
  • Pass Rush - PMV, FSM, ACC, PUR, PRC, Swim Move DPP Trait, Bull Rush DPP Trait, Spin Move DPP Trait
  • Athleticism - SPD, STR, AGI, ACC, High Motor DPP Trait
• K/P
  • Power - KPW
  • Accuracy - KAC, Consistency DPP Trait, Clutch DPP Trait
  • Athleticism - STR, STR, AGI, ACC
  • Run Support - PUR, PRC, BSH, TKL, POW, Big Hitter DPP Trait

Immediately with these at-a-glance ratings, I would have a good idea as to the strengths and weaknesses of my personnel, just like I have in the NBA 2K games. I get a better idea of how my roster is built to start with, from which point I can more easily decide how I want to improve it going forward. It would open up the game a lot more to new players and allow them to field competitive teams more quickly, as they'd more immediately be able to figure out how best to use given personnel on their team. It would help even veterans of the series access information about players more quickly, particularly with regard to drafted players from any of the game's draft classes who have no real-life counterpart from which expectations may be drawn. It would more easily allow a user to see if he's building his team correctly for a given scheme and defensive front and also help the user keep tabs on the types of players his opposition is acquiring during the roster-building stages of the game.

An immediate comment about schemes, this won't make player scheme settings or the scheme-specific OVR ratings irrelevant, IMO; it's simply making player performance information more readily available. The player scheme settings are still paramount for team-building logic performed by the AI. A possible alternative to idea, but to the same end, would be displaying all scheme-specific OVRs for a given position group of players simultaneously; for example, when viewing QBs I'd see his Strong Arm, West Coast, Balanced, Field General, and Pocket Passer OVR ratings. I'd argue those aren't as descriptive as what I laid out above, but it'd be a happy medium and certainly a step forward with regard to quick and effective personnel evaluation.

Any thoughts, suggestions to, or constructive criticism for this idea? Feel free, I'm all ears.

[hanzsomehanz]

Pardon me here but why is your concept so verbose? It seems simple enough. Can you describe the concept in one sentence? What are the target points to fulfill the goal?

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by hanzsomehanz

Pardon me here but why is your concept so verbose? It seems simple enough. Can you describe the concept in one sentence? What are the target points to fulfill the goal? Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2

Sure.

tl;dr - I want better information about players in the league presented more quickly and conveniently to the user so that the user can make more informed roster decisions for his team.

[Big FN Deal]

I think the idea makes perfect sense and seeing the example for how another game currently accomplishes this, makes it easy to understand what you are suggesting.

That said, how is it that you can see something like this in another sports video game and think "it would be good if Madden utilized something like this" yet seemingly give other posters a hard time sometimes when they do the same thing with various other aspects of the game?

[PGaither84]

Pretty much what I talked to Looman about for the Madden 11 community event. Short answer: They are aware of many of Madden's problems and know some good answers/solutions but they claim they don't have time. When they make their "to-do" list, things like this keep getting pushed further and further down the list of priorities. A reasonable excuse, but an excuse none-the-less.

I will stop here because I don't want to get too frustrated. Between meeting the people who make the game and AJ's melt down a little while back, I have no hope for Madden's immediate future. I just try to enjoy 12 and rotate between that and 2k8. I also mix in a little NCAA 11 from time to time.

[BleedGreen710]

I think Re-Imagine is a little too strong of a word. Hell I think of little improvements like this everyday when im sitting on the toilet. I dont think the problem is EA not coming up the idea, its them deciding not to impliment it.

[daniel77733]

Before EA does anything, they should eliminate the horrible depth chart setup. Make the slots match the players at every position and eliminate the possibility that players from other positions can be on the depth chart at other positions. For example, just now, literally, just now, WR Ted Ginn suffers an injury and I place him on IR. I have Crabtree, Moss, Williams and Jenkins 1-4 on the depth chart. Manningham is 6th because he's also injured. At 5, its an empty slot.

In-game against the Cardinals. Last game of the season and all of a sudden, my entire depth chart is screwed up. I have Davis as the 6th WR. He's NOT a ******* WR!!! I hate this crap. I have OL all in different positions and my entire depth chart has been filled which I hate. I dont want it this way. I want it like 2K5, 2K3, etc. because thats the way that it SHOULD be.

I have already deleted my CCM file and this game is going straight to best buy because its not worth playing anymore. I'm sick of all this garbage. Also, in the Cardinals game, James was the RB (forgot his first name) with a rating of 65 while Ryan Williams was the backup despite being rated 75. Either eliminate the schemes and all this other fake unrealistic crap or im not buying M25 period. Tiburon doesnt know how to develop a football game and thats the truth whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

Bye bye Crapadden. RIP.

[rootofalleli]

I'd really like to see this happen. I realize there are different teams working on Madden, but it seems like the UI gets a complete overhaul every year. Instead of cosmetic changes and moving things around, we need this kind of change. All it would take is for someone to work out some ways to aggregate the numbers appropriately.

This could also tie in well with other improvements like more advanced sub packages and less information overload when it comes to scouting draft classes. For example, a sub package useful for 3rd and long could put your best deep threat receivers on the outside, even if they are 3rd and 5th on the depth chart. Scouting could reveal some of these aggregated ratings with increasing certainty - maybe that OLB seems like a C- pass rusher at first glance, but becomes a B if you scout him again, and a B- if you do so a third time. This would also make it possible to differentiate between scouting departments in interesting ways: a better scout would have a more accurate estimate more often, for example.

I'd enjoy this game a lot more if this kind of thinking were a higher priority every year. And developing a quality management experience would make it much easier for EA to grow interest in CCM. I didn't think about it until I read this thread, but I'd be really put off by the UI if I hadn't been playing this game for years. A lot of successful games have a steep learning curve, so they do their best to draw players in and teach them what's going on. Play Now is great for people who just want to pick up a controller and go. That's absolutely not the whole market though.