Madden Series: Things that just don't add up

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I didn't directly respond to that, admittedly. However, I did allow at the outset that the gameplay mechanic of coaches in Madden NFL 13 is not necessarily the most realistic. IMO it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem; does a coach enter the league predisposed to work with certain position groups and unable to change over time, or does the coach work his way up the ladder, starting as a positions coach, acquiring skill sets over time before working his way up to the head coaching position? IMO it's a bit of both, but to say coaches should never be allowed to add skills and must have strengths and weaknesses where they originate seems too absolutist to me, from a video game perspective. As an aside, coordinators and position coaches aren't represented in Madden 13 and absolutely should be a presence in the game going forward. Maybe going forward we have position coaches who start with various boosts already purchased; this would probably require tiers to each boost, a la Head Coach 09, in order to be truly meaningful, however. Again, I don't see what currently exists as a bad thing; I see it rather as consistent with the rest of the mode.

Nobody is saying that coaches abilities should be static. Coaches should have potentials as well as players.

The bold is the part that unrealistic in both coach development and player development. What makes coaches get better? XP points and BUYING PACKAGES? or through experience? Mentoring from other coaches? Film study? etc? Mike McCarthy isn't going to get better at the Zone Blocking by purchasing some package. I don't think McCarthy is ever going to get any better at the Zone Blocking. I shouldn't be able to force him to get better with some unrealistic Zone Blocking package.

If I want better Zone Blocking, I should hire better Zone Blocking Coaches.

[SloeyEZ]

LOL, I love and hate threads like this. And yes, everyone that has read at least any two of my other posts already know where I'm going

In fact, forget my post, I'll just ask this and I really am chuckling to myself right now, but isn't it funny that a majority of the things asked for in threads like this were/or are related to concepts already in Head Coach 09?

I'm not the only one seeing this right? I'm going to assume it isn't a matter of EA not seeing what any of us that have played HC see when reading these threads and ask, is it a Licensing issue? I mean I know it is their own game, but maybe it was a "sub" division that they no longer can use the concepts in Head Coach?

Again, I don't know why, and I'm not saying "remake" Head Coach instead of Madden, I'm just saying why can't the concepts in Head Coach that are the foundation of this thread and many others like it are not/can not be integrated into the Madden Franchise.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by SloeyEZ

In fact, forget my post, I'll just ask this and I really am chuckling to myself right now, but isn't it funny that a majority of the things asked for in threads like this were/or are related to concepts already in Head Coach 09?

I'd like to think we're only now starting to get there and I argue that Madden NFL 13 took steps in a meaningful direction to that end. I think most of those steps this year were focused towards the draft, however; player story lines, dynamic draft classes, revamped scouting, and the ability to trade next year's draft picks, for example. There were specific steps taken to give individual teams personality, such as player and team schemes, and also to make the league feel more alive, such as the Twitter feed.

There's obviously is a way's to go; I posted a list of about a dozen potential additions and/or changes to CCM that I'd like to see in a different thread. However, I don't think Tiburon / EA Austin is blind to the continued demand for increased depth and immersion in career mode.

[cuttingteeth]

"Immersion" is another thing/word they need to figure out, too. Being immersed in football does not mean I need to read/know what Skip A-hole Bayless thinks...haha. The immersion we all mostly crave is for what's on the field, not what's off the field. I agree that off the field issues have effects, but in general, they rarely ever determine my love of the actual gameplay or even the end result of actual gameplay. The only thing I can think of is a wild, sudden death like with Jovan Belcher. But, please, for my sake and for the sake of human decency, don't go putting that into the game, either. Twitter BS is bad enough.

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by cuttingteeth

"Immersion" is another thing/word they need to figure out, too. Being immersed in football does not mean I need to read/know what Skip A-hole Bayless thinks...haha. The immersion we all mostly crave is for what's on the field, not what's off the field. I agree that off the field issues have effects, but in general, they rarely ever determine my love of the actual gameplay or even the end result of actual gameplay. The only thing I can think of is a wild, sudden death like with Jovan Belcher. But, please, for my sake and for the sake of human decency, don't go putting that into the game, either. Twitter BS is bad enough.

I can't stand Skip Bayless, but I think the Twitter and news feeds were really good, legit moves toward creating a more immersive CCM environment.

I like hearing what the rising draft class members are doing throughout the season with the punditry and all, and I like hearing how other teams are doing, especially the stuff about renewing or not renewing contracts. That always helps me start thinking about the off-season if I know a desirable player or two has decided to hit the market.

I don't think the NFLPA would allow NFL players to be linked to off-field story lines involving indiscretions of any sort, and the NFL brand would probably keep the draft classes clean as well just because of the association between the league and the game.

I don't know what they could do to add to on-the-field immersion, but I think more should be done. The effort at team intros is a start but isn't enough, and there should be more shots of the stadium, crowd, players between plays, and perhaps more on-field sounds like player dialogue or something.

[43M]

Alot of good points made, but I dont want to address everyone, so Ill just add a few things...

1) Someone said about "editing causes stuff to break". Okay....for Madden 13 I might buy that due to Connected Careers....but customization ability has been stripped away over the years....its not just a one year thing. EA continues to take control out of our hands and this goes back along time.

And the fact that so many other games allow you to edit players fully....the bugs issue only makes them look worse, and I dont buy it.

2) Someone also said that RPG stylings arent the way to go for Madden. I dont disagree....my point about the RPGs was mainly about feeling their strengths and weaknesses. If I was a low level character and ventured into an area with level 80 monsters, I would get whooped. Thats somewhat how it should feel with dominant player taking on crappy players. And using players in a certain way adds to the strategy.

Use RPG stylings? Not really...but that doesnt mean there arent things to learn of them in terms of how players feel in the game in terms of giving them unique skillsets.. .especially the elite players.

3) Maybe coaches do matter more in 13, but lets face it, its not realistic at all and they still dont have a huge effect.

My point about coaches is actually geared more towards CPU controlled teams. I want to feel like they affect the franchises Im going against in many ways. Maybe a team fires a coach who doesnt like to trade players for a coach who loves to trade.

It would be more of a coach/GM type thing.

4) Loving alot of the feedback Im seeing. Keep it coming!

[cuttingteeth]

It finally hit me why I really don't like the XP or boost packages systems in place...and this is probably just me (maybe). This is just my personal feeling towards it all. The way they are implemented comes across like your player suddenly "juices up" instead of having a break out performance one game and then still having some ups and downs the rest of the season/career.

Then this hit me: Whatever a player's skill set is coming out of college should likely not ever increase so much (I'm talking natural talent abilities), rather their awareness and play reaction/recognition should only increase or decrease. I mean, if I can catch the ball really well because I just can, then that specific rating shouldn't change unless my hands get bigger or I break multiple fingers or have some fingers cut off. I will always be able to catch per that same exact rating. My awareness and play recognition going up, though - that will increase my seeing the ball or expecting it coming to me, and likely I'll get thrown to more = catching more = YAC's more. The only other thing per a WR that would make sense going up is route running rating. That naturally can increase or decrease in real life.

Per OL and DL guys - I'd say awareness, play rec, strength and footwork are all that should increase or decrease.

Strength is something else that came to mind. I'll go along with players increasing or decreasing in strength, definitely...but...it should probably be tied specifically to their weight coming into the league exactly. If whoever is whatever strength at whatever weight, then from that exact point, their weight increases or decreases per strength rating.

Anyway...yeah...this is what I dreamed about last night. Crazy, huh? Madden freaking controls my dreams, now. Awesome. Haha.

[ajra21]

Quote: Originally Posted by jaymee13

1) EA showed us the reason for not having edits in the game. They tried to give us 100% control and it just broke something else. Now we have limited edit abilities while they attempt a fix for madden 25. 2) I swear this is already in the game. With the schemes, players play differently depending on the coaching scheme your coach has. This is now something editable with the latest patch, but I'm still on a CCM that was started before the patch and I can't edit it. I think what you are trying to say that you want OC and DC back in game and have special schemes or stat boosts depending on who it is.

Could you expand and explain both points, especially the first?