So what's the point of defense in this game?

[Big FN Deal]

@Franchise408, I feel for most part and the only thing I will ad is I have heard with regard to "pressing" the button, that in M13 you have to hold it down. Not saying your are doing it wrong, I am just clarifying that people have stated there is a difference this year, due to the ball hawk feature and whatnot, with pressing the button to jump or attempt an int in M12 opposed to needing to hold it earlier in M13. It's like the jump/int has become more of an auto assist.

[Franchise408]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

@Franchise408, I feel for most part and the only thing I will ad is I have heard with regard to "pressing" the button, that in M13 you have to hold it down. Not saying your are doing it wrong, I am just clarifying that people have stated there is a difference this year, due to the ball hawk feature and whatnot, with pressing the button to jump or attempt an int in M12 opposed to needing to hold it earlier in M13. It's like the jump/int has become more of an auto assist.

But sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's wholly inconsistent.

[Trick13]

Quote: Originally Posted by Franchise408

But sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's wholly inconsistent.

This is a problem throughout the entirety of the game. And in response to those who say the player is out of position - what should that matter in terms of response from user input. If the game is judging the player to be out of position then fine have the attempt be terrible, but at least show the attempt, at least have the player respond in some way to the input even if you are out of position.

It should be no different than when I accidentally hit the tackle/dive button with a defender who is 7 yards away from the ball carrier - in that case the player dives and takes himself out of the play. So if I am controlling a player and miss time something, or he is not "positioned" to make the play, have him make an attempt of some sort - even if it is completely ineffective.

There are times when you switch to a DB and get an INT despite the DB having no idea where the ball is. I am willing to allow for DBs "guessing" right or "reacting" to the WRs catch attempt in those cases, but these instances should almost never result in INTs. Pass breakups - sure, dropped INTs - fine with that, "tip drill scenarios" - would be awesome, but not cool when any player, offense or defense catches a ball they had no way of seeing...

[Nav]

Quote: Originally Posted by BTownSlinger

I stand completely by what I said. For evidence, scroll up to this post: Not to pick on you PacMan, but my DB's always jump when they're in position to do so. Now, when you smash the jump button and they don't jump, it's because they're body is not in the position to do so, and/or they are too far away from the ball to make a play. Again, go back and read my other post. Most Madden players expect their players in-game to do unhumanly things. You cannot expect your player to launch himself over the moon for a catch or an interception every time you ask him to.

Tell that to the guy I played yesterday. If this is true for the defense it should be true of the offense. The guy I played chose the Bears and kept ROCKET catching vs DOUBLE COVERAGE. He completed 80% of the jumpball animations with my CORNER and SAFETY all OVER him. Somehow he could magically contort his BODY through and over my safety to catch the ball.

[XXL78]

The defense in madden has gotten progressivly worse and less fun once we could no longer see where the quatrerback was looking. Good pass defense is about anticipation not reaction. If you see the quarterback throw the ball, its too late to make a play on it most of the time. Defensive backs anticipate where the ball is gooing by reading the quarterbacks eyes. That facet of football is completely missing from this game and defense will never be done correctly until defenders can anticipate instead of react.

[Big FN Deal]

I had to find somewhere to post this and this thread seems like a good place.

All I will say is, Madden on new consoles is going to have to bring it with game play depth because what I just saw in the first minute of that video, pissed me off.

I have been mentioning about the receiver "becoming the defender" to break up potential interceptions in Madden and I am sure I am not the first one to do so, with the response that it would be difficult to implement. Well to my surprise, that's exactly what the receiver did in that video, in a next-gen video game from 2007.

EDIT- Mods I am posting this gif not to compare games or start some silly bickering but to show what I mean be a receiver "becoming the defender" in a video game.

Spoiler

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I have been mentioning about the receiver "becoming the defender" to break up potential interceptions in Madden and I am sure I am not the first one to do so, with the response that it would be difficult to implement.

It probably is considering the insistence of the game to have that "Matrix moment" to turn the field around and halting all action. They would have to pick a point after "checking" for WR breaking up the pass.

If it was just continuous action like with offensive players catching, they could pretty much copy/paste the same system - just have WR aware of that opportunity and then access "DB logic" to have them make the attempt.

That would bring up the question of what to do to make it continual action.

-Don't turn the screen around? (Defensive user would need to adjust to running "backwards" and seeing upfield on the return)

-Whip the screen around in one motion? (Might seem disorienting).

-Devise a "side football" view that would work for gameplay? (Might upset users who prefer the vertical views)

So I can see why they said it might be hard to implement if only because of issues aside from the player behavior itself (which shouldn't be hard at all).

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

It probably is considering the insistence of the game to have that "Matrix moment" to turn the field around and halting all action. They would have to pick a point after "checking" for WR breaking up the pass. If it was just continuous action like with offensive players catching, they could pretty much copy/paste the same system - just have WR aware of that opportunity and then access "DB logic" to have them make the attempt. That would bring up the question of what to do to make it continual action. -Don't turn the screen around? (Defensive user would need to adjust to running "backwards" and seeing upfield on the return) -Whip the screen around in one motion? (Might seem disorienting). -Devise a "side football" view that would work for gameplay? (Might upset users who prefer the vertical views) So I can see why they said it might be hard to implement if only because of issues aside from the player behavior itself (which shouldn't be hard at all).

I agree with you and the simple fix would seem to be allow for a brief period before the turn around occurs, to allow for the ball to be secured. Meaning in that clip, the only difference in that and Madden, is that in the clip the INT was not already decided. Receivers in Madden will tackle defenders just like in that clip, after it's decided to be an INT and the screen turns around but they can't jar the ball loose to break up the play, that would be a fumble by the defender in Madden.

That's what caught my eye about the play in this clip because it seems like a small subtle change, that would make all the difference. There are plays in Madden where the defender is bobbling the ball, trying to make an INT, while the receiver stands there and watches, waiting until the ball is INT before "becoming the defender". I think that animation or play is ok for low AWR receivers but players with any decent/average AWR should be "becoming the defender" the moment a defender touches a pass/ball.

So maybe that's an even better defensive animation key/trigger that should be implemented in Madden, the moment a defender touches a pass, at least the intended receiver or maybe even all offensive players within a certain parameter of the ball, become defenders, to try to break up or catch/INT the ball themselves.