No Huddle revamp for Madden NFL 25?

[KOTC Wayne]

Yea, would be real absurd to think tourney player's don't know real football when the fact is a lot of what some players generically create in a game of Madden is aimed at creating some type of realism b/c of the lack of EA to have it in the game. For example, the interaction between the offensive and defensive line has been a epic fail by EA and trying to run a Tampa 2 defense in this game is asking for someone to put up a lot of points on you every game. Even the default blitzes doesn't work like they should and the ones that do work, you have to send so many people that the one free man won't stand a chance sacking the QB b/c of a player easily recognizing where the open man is on the play. So............. instead of literally begging EA to fix the problem with it falling on deaf ears year after year after year............ I will practice on way's to create generic pressure by moving a couple of guys around and re blitzing one or two guys. My blitzes aren't 100% full proof as most, if not all aren't and there you have it fellas.

Like I always tell anyone on the Sim vs Tourney style debate....... for the most part the two labels are the same up to the point that Tourney players will create generic things on their own to make the game more real b/c of the lack of EA. We have complaints too...... the same as the Sim community but we won't just sit back and deal with it so to speak. ( My Wr with 98 jump like Moss for instance and EA hasn't found a way to factor the height and the jump factor in, fine, I will user catch passes myself to trigger the spec catch animation to factor the height and jump in )

[ZAN]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

@ZAN, let me start with I appreciate you taking the time to respond and even though I disagree with much of what you have stated, I respect your opinion. The "looking for a fight" reference meant I feel strongly about it being contradictory to me for there to be anyone affiliated with creating a NFL football simulation video game that doesn't believe applicable realism is priority one. I get nothing out of trying to insult anyone's intelligence or football acumen in person or on the internet, so that's definitely not my intent. Also I have no "hatred" toward any person over a video game and I want to be clear that I have an issue with the message, not the messenger. My issue is with the type of POV expressed in this statement. "And I honestly see no reason add adaptive AI when I've seen myself that you can coach up your DBs pre-snap to take away most in breaking routes/outbreaking routes with the individual shading assignments. I enjoy the control I have....part of the chess match of the game. Even if my DB gets beat 2-3 times on an out-slant; I see it. I recognize it. I make the shading adjustment, and force my opponent to think twice about it from there on out." It's been stated repeatedly that some people, myself among them, don't see how someone that feels the game is realistic enough as is can be a strong advocate for more realism. I ain't mad at you for enjoying Madden, I would like to enjoy it too but that's kind of hard if someone like yourself is indifferent or even worse, resistant to things I want to see in the game because you feel they are a threat to the way you play or they're unnecessary. The vast majority of the things I read "sim" gamers asking for are options, for example many of us have been asking for a separate "simulation" setting for years, to no avail. So it's odd having someone trying to call out "sim" gamers for being divisive when it's self described tourney players that I constantly see behaving as if someone is out to take something away from them, calling "sim" gamers whiners that need to man up and all manner of divisive garbage. Again, you or whoever else that enjoys Madden, that's great and no reasonable person wants to take that away. Those of us that currently don't enjoy Madden or feel there is way more realism that NEEDS to be added would like to see that happen so we can play the game how we like to, too.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I also don't act like a congressman as an EAGC. Essentially, I have always listened to others' suggestions and tried to understand where they are coming from. In essence, I agree with you, the fact that my same defense can't recognize the same route combinations and play them perfectly after 3-4 times of seeing them...that is inherently wrong. I agree whole heartedly. I agree with adaptive AI in the game. O just don't want to see it make my players turn into freelancers.

The fastest way to earn the bench in Monte Kiffin or Rod Marinelli's defense (Tampa 2) or any other defense is to start doing something you aren't intended to do. In theory...the Packera have run double slants and abused the MIR (Mandatory Inside Release) that the Bear defense demands from it's corners since the Favre days. The last thing I want is someone to slant slant slant slant from the same set...then my DB adapts and gives up a sideline release route in the sideline window.

I'm all for adaptive AI as long as they are playing within the rules of the set defense. I don't want my Cover 3 corners to be jumping outside of routes (making centerfield's life a living hell) because they've seen them two or three times. If you understand what I mean. I just need to see my players play instinctual, but within their job description.

And most importantly, any command I give my lb/corner should override the "adaptiveness" or "instinct"...just as a Head Coach giving a direct command would do in game. See how Tim Jennings improved as a professional after he stopped being instinctual and started doing his job under Marinelli.

But for every Jennings, there's a Polamalu or Reed that thrives on guy feeling...bringing up the variety of success/failure in adaptive AI. A DeAngelo Hall is a terrible player on the fly...but when given structure has shown that he's capable of shutting guys down. Just stop him from "guessing" all the time.

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by StayPlation82

I kinda disagree with the previous post on his reasoning. I think adding the NCAA approach and tweaking the plays available by personnel on the field is the way to go. I shouldn't be confined to just my audibles. The eagles won't be. Frustrating as that game may have been, it shouldn't be the go to situation for not expanding the no huddle system. Fatigue is in madden 25. Also the no huddle is a strategy that doesn't fatigue the offense as much as the defense. Watching true no huddle teams make that apparent. We have to learn how to defend it rather than make Nick Saban type statements. That said the glitches are glitches and are being exploited. That on some level will never go away in video games.

They say this every year and here we have a poster above you and me to testify that this has been the case for a long time now. The proof of this actually working like it should (fatigue) is yet to be seen and we are just a couple weeks off from knowing.

But I understand your position, but the people who exploit these types of flaws in the game are the ones crying about why players like us moan and groan about it and end up having less when we should have more (damn I sound like that AT&T commercial). Not realizing that they're gameplay is what contributes to what it is you are exactly saying.

Its a never ending cycle, and we have to just deal with it until EA can actually show us that these bugs and glitches have been dealt with using the proper in game mechanics that should have been there or working properly from the get go!

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by KOTC Wayne

Yea, would be real absurd to think tourney player's don't know real football when the fact is a lot of what some players generically create in a game of Madden is aimed at creating some type of realism b/c of the lack of EA to have it in the game. For example, the interaction between the offensive and defensive line has been a epic fail by EA and trying to run a Tampa 2 defense in this game is asking for someone to put up a lot of points on you every game. Even the default blitzes doesn't work like they should and the ones that do work, you have to send so many people that the one free man won't stand a chance sacking the QB b/c of a player easily recognizing where the open man is on the play. So............. instead of literally begging EA to fix the problem with it falling on deaf ears year after year after year............ I will practice on way's to create generic pressure by moving a couple of guys around and re blitzing one or two guys. My blitzes aren't 100% full proof as most, if not all aren't and there you have it fellas. Like I always tell anyone on the Sim vs Tourney style debate....... for the most part the two labels are the same up to the point that Tourney players will create generic things on their own to make the game more real b/c of the lack of EA. We have complaints too...... the same as the Sim community but we won't just sit back and deal with it so to speak. ( My Wr with 98 jump like Moss for instance and EA hasn't found a way to factor the height and the jump factor in, fine, I will user catch passes myself to trigger the spec catch animation to factor the height and jump in )

I feel what you're saying, but Rocket Catching is cheap and unreal! Its one of the many issues that have plagued this game for years, its a cop out way of trying to make the game work to the point it was just "MONEY" unless you had a good gimmick/glitch such as "nano blitzing" to counter it, which is still cheap in and of itself!

[Smoke6]

What up ZAN,

Anyways, after reading several posts on this page, I have came to the same conclusions about this game and its direction...

Screw it!

Make the game of football play like the game of football, if its not fun for you (and I have said this before) then how do you call yourself a fan of the sport if it would so boring playing it as you seen it on TV each and every week during the season?

Its simple really, I dont ask for my other games and genres I play to be more user friendly unless that was an aspect of the game they marketed in the forefront. I dont complain that Dark Souls, Demon Souls, Battlefield, Max Payne 3 and a host of others games I play when it gets too hard or should be more arcadey. I'm trying to get immersed into the atmosphere of the game just like we are trying to do with madden.

But its like kissing that fine arse girl only to be turned off by her bad breathe. But im sure some wouldnt even mind that, but you get my point.

[ZAN]

Smoke,

I would love for nothing more than the game to play exactly as we see it on Sundays, with the 3-4 YPCarry average, the 7-9YPA throwing, etc...that's my goal. If defense was utterly frustratingly swarming like you see on Sunday, I'd love it. No more of Joe Schmoe with an ebook of route combos that make no sense moving the rock on me at will.

[KOTC Wayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

I feel what you're saying, but Rocket Catching is cheap and unreal! Its one of the many issues that have plagued this game for years, its a cop out way of trying to make the game work to the point it was just "MONEY" unless you had a good gimmick/glitch such as "nano blitzing" to counter it, which is still cheap in and of itself!

I said spec catch, not rocket catch, 2 different things. Spec catch just makes WR jump high still facing toward the endzone and the rocket catch, you got to turn your WR around and he just jumps up high and I agree, it's total bull.

It's no way on Gods green earth you can play this game just like you see on Sunday's b/c of EA's failure to make the game real in a lot of aspects. I have played in several sim leagues and the guy's that claim to be the most sim, when they are backed up in a corner ( losing ), they start to gradually and gradually go away from their so called roots.

[KANE699]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZAN

Oh, so me playing a game for what it is/playing to win means that I have no knowledge of real football, football techniques, playcalling, strategies, or personell? And people wonder why I think there's a fundamental problem in the Madden community stemming from generalizations about a player based on how he plays a video game. Again, many of the BEST Madden video game players....guys, that by your standards, play to win at any cost/play cheeseball/whatever...those guys are the first to step up and tell me when something is wrong with the game...long before anyone else ever comes across it in a ranked game. You think that everyone who abuses wheel routes, TE seams, motion-snapped fades, and TCPs EVERYTHING to the inside doesn't know that there's something unbelievably unrealistic with that being so effective? We aren't mindless idiots. So I honestly really don't appreciate the generalization that because I'm an arcade player, I'm somehow incapable of: 1. Seeing something blatantly wrong with the game. 2. Reporting it to the developers/other members of the EAGC 3. Articulating myself in a way that allows us all to have a better game in coming years. Just because I play a game to win doesn't mean I can't look at the game and say "Man, the disruptive 2-tech in the Tampa 2 doesn't nearly affect the offensive line enough in this game; and that goes for every linemen in 4 down-linemen sets" or "Wow, this Ballhawk (even though I'll use it all day with whoever I happen to be usering) is really overeffective and unrealistic and should be 'Trait' or 'Attribute' based." We aren't bumbling, drooling idiots. We are completely capable of having a football debate with anyone else in the community. We totally understand problems, fixes, and implications of those fixes on the game and our community. So I rather do not enjoy the fact that you determine my worthiness as a EAGC by how I happen to play the game once it's put on a shelf.

Never called you an idiot or generalized any statements about you, just calling it as I see it.

Here is a generalization for you though, I know a lot of players that play like you and "tell the gameplay team that this shouldn't happen this way" but then continue on about your business until the problem is resolved. Here is the problem with that just because you see that exploit doesn't mean you will call out other fundamental issues with the game such as being able to rocket catch.

I know many people that sit there and say, but I pushed the button at the right time, I should be rewarded for timing up that catch, even though you didn't get your player facing the ball or in a proper spot to do so, so you want this magical leaping motion to stay in the game just because you timed it right even though it defies the laws of physics.

There is a generalization for you, I know players like you and I know there are a lot of them down there that do in most cases try to get rid of some exploits but you are only running the game in the broken way that you know how to play it and trying to exploit it that way rather than pointing out the fundamental issues which wouldn't allow you to play the game in the way you are playing it in the first place.



I guess I have said my peace, It is very frustrating after watching things like this go on for years right in front of my face, just because you break the game through your bad habits and then report it does not mean it is making for a more simulation game.