Problems and Solutions

[TNT713]

There are two kinds of Madden players. Guys that find solutions and guys that find problems.

For the guys that find solutions: Madden players are exploring a football environment where the game is played with thumbs and fingers instead of arms and legs. I believe they enjoy Madden more because of the discovery. They face a myriad of challenges, and they cope through constant adjustment and tinkering as they push their Madden consciousness forward at their own pace.

For the guys that find problems: These players are exploring Madden as if it were a game played with arms and legs instead of thumbs and fingers. They may not enjoy the Madden experience because they are missing the discovery aspect. They face a myriad of challenges, and cope through constantly establishing the problems as an insurmountable obstacle in their consciousness, ending all progress.

As a stubborn yet passionate Madden fan, it pains me to see people who find tactical issues with Madden and giving up their search for tactical solutions. It pains me to see people so staunchly adamant about what is impossible in the Madden game, when I'm able to do what they say is impossible on the Madden game. It especially pains me to see knowledgeable football fans railing against Madden when they don't apply what they know about football in a useful way.

Football works on Madden. Indeed, it is impossible to be consistently successful at Madden without an understanding of the strategy of football. By that same token, it is also impossible to be consistently successful at Madden without an understanding of how to adapt that strategy to the electronic environment.

I've read several books about football, it's history, how to practice, strategy, etc... And I have yet to find one concept that I couldn't adapt to the Madden game. It may have taken effort to adapt the concept, but once learned the knowledge is mine forever. But I'm a solution seeker. I don't stop when problem seekers say "NAY!!!"

Finding solutions is fun. I don't know if complaining about problems is fun or not. I'm guessing not.

That all being said, anybody wanting to find a solution to a tactical Madden problem should have faith that a solution is out there. Furthermore, there are MANY people who want to help you find those solutions.

I implore you though, listen to the guys that find problems so you will know what to find solutions for. In my experience, the guys that complain the most are invaluable when it comes to finding a tactical solution BEFORE facing the tactic with the knowledge that anything people complain about is going to be used often...

Fortunately, when you have a solution what they complain about won't matter.

Later

[LiquorLogic]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

There are two kinds of Madden players. Guys that find solutions and guys that find problems. For the guys that find solutions: Madden players are exploring a football environment where the game is played with thumbs and fingers instead of arms and legs. I believe they enjoy Madden more because of the discovery. They face a myriad of challenges, and they cope through constant adjustment and tinkering as they push their Madden consciousness forward at their own pace. For the guys that find problems: These players are exploring Madden as if it were a game played with arms and legs instead of thumbs and fingers. They may not enjoy the Madden experience because they are missing the discovery aspect. They face a myriad of challenges, and cope through constantly establishing the problems as an insurmountable obstacle in their consciousness, ending all progress. As a stubborn yet passionate Madden fan, it pains me to see people who find tactical issues with Madden and giving up their search for tactical solutions. It pains me to see people so staunchly adamant about what is impossible in the Madden game, when I'm able to do what they say is impossible on the Madden game. It especially pains me to see knowledgeable football fans railing against Madden when they don't apply what they know about football in a useful way. Football works on Madden. Indeed, it is impossible to be consistently successful at Madden without an understanding of the strategy of football. By that same token, it is also impossible to be consistently successful at Madden without an understanding of how to adapt that strategy to the electronic environment. I've read several books about football, it's history, how to practice, strategy, etc... And I have yet to find one concept that I couldn't adapt to the Madden game. It may have taken effort to adapt the concept, but once learned the knowledge is mine forever. But I'm a solution seeker. I don't stop when problem seekers say "NAY!!!" Finding solutions is fun. I don't know if complaining about problems is fun or not. I'm guessing not. That all being said, anybody wanting to find a solution to a tactical Madden problem should have faith that a solution is out there. Furthermore, there are MANY people who want to help you find those solutions. I implore you though, listen to the guys that find problems so you will know what to find solutions for. In my experience, the guys that complain the most are invaluable when it comes to finding a tactical solution BEFORE facing the tactic with the knowledge that anything people complain about is going to be used often... Fortunately, when you have a solution what they complain about won't matter. Later

It's not the consumer's job to find solutions.

[SA1NT401]

What we ask for IS 100% possible in Madden...Its the "Well they cant do it..." mentality of MOST consumers which lets the developers off the hook and release a disgrace to the game of football title.

What we want HAS been inn "other" titles YEARS ago and therefore is 100% possible now!

But i am finished with madden until A) exclusivity ends OR B) another company can pull of a great SIM game....Real players or not, i couldnt care less anymore about that aspect.

[CM Hooe]

Out of curiosity, TNT713, do you primarily play with a 4-3 or 3-4 defense?

[wheelman990]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

There are two kinds of Madden players. Guys that find solutions and guys that find problems. For the guys that find solutions: Madden players are exploring a football environment where the game is played with thumbs and fingers instead of arms and legs. I believe they enjoy Madden more because of the discovery. They face a myriad of challenges, and they cope through constant adjustment and tinkering as they push their Madden consciousness forward at their own pace. For the guys that find problems: These players are exploring Madden as if it were a game played with arms and legs instead of thumbs and fingers. They may not enjoy the Madden experience because they are missing the discovery aspect. They face a myriad of challenges, and cope through constantly establishing the problems as an insurmountable obstacle in their consciousness, ending all progress. As a stubborn yet passionate Madden fan, it pains me to see people who find tactical issues with Madden and giving up their search for tactical solutions. It pains me to see people so staunchly adamant about what is impossible in the Madden game, when I'm able to do what they say is impossible on the Madden game. It especially pains me to see knowledgeable football fans railing against Madden when they don't apply what they know about football in a useful way. Football works on Madden. Indeed, it is impossible to be consistently successful at Madden without an understanding of the strategy of football. By that same token, it is also impossible to be consistently successful at Madden without an understanding of how to adapt that strategy to the electronic environment. I've read several books about football, it's history, how to practice, strategy, etc... And I have yet to find one concept that I couldn't adapt to the Madden game. It may have taken effort to adapt the concept, but once learned the knowledge is mine forever. But I'm a solution seeker. I don't stop when problem seekers say "NAY!!!" Finding solutions is fun. I don't know if complaining about problems is fun or not. I'm guessing not. That all being said, anybody wanting to find a solution to a tactical Madden problem should have faith that a solution is out there. Furthermore, there are MANY people who want to help you find those solutions. I implore you though, listen to the guys that find problems so you will know what to find solutions for. In my experience, the guys that complain the most are invaluable when it comes to finding a tactical solution BEFORE facing the tactic with the knowledge that anything people complain about is going to be used often... Fortunately, when you have a solution what they complain about won't matter. Later

Sounds to me you want us to play with our eyes closed, and accept what we get. I'll pay $60 if it's earned, but I'm not going to throw it away.

[Jarodd21]

I kind of see it on both sides.. Yes I want alot of issues to be fixed on the game that will make the game much more better that alot of great posters on here speak on but like TNT says I do adjust to the product thats in front of me with sliders, strategy, schemes, Etc to make the game enjoyable for me..

[TreFacTor]

I am a first generation Madden player, my nephew is a second generation madden player, and my sons are third generation. I have passed the tradition of football and Madden to 2 other generations. Only I remain. My nephew and sons gave up on Madden due to it's micro transactions and lack of realism. When asked why they no longer like madden their responses echo those of the community.

Nephew (age 25 Team Vikings high school football): Madden 11 was the worst game (gameplay wise) on next generation consoles. The first game we played the combined score was almost 150. Minimal to no changes in franchise or AI. He also sited the extra content as being extraneous.

Son 1 (age 20 Team Saints high school football) States his lack of interest in Madden is due to the gimmicks every year. He reads all of the articles, waits for information only to see that over the last few games they remove things that worked in place of gimmicks that don't.

Son 2 (age 13 Team Eagles**subject to change..fair weather fan**) Really liked being able to play with dad and be able to compete because he was the low man on the ladder for years. Doesn't like watching the action. He feels that more times than most the play is decided before the snap of the ball. He surmised this from one game where Assante' Samuels was in coverage, the receiver slips at the line and then Samuels somehow slips as well allowing the receiver to get behind him for a TD. (yeah I won that game)

I have my own issues with the game, but as you can see there are more than 2 types of madden player. EA's mistake is trying to make it accessible to all while trying to remain faithful to the game of football and how the make this happen in game. We should be able to tell EA what we liked and didn't like, and not be segregated by whether or not we can back up our opinions with hard evidence or even offer solutions to fix what we see are issues. That's up to the Madden team, all we can do is give a thumbs up or a thumbs down, and either buy or not.

[Senator Palmer]

I'm with Jarodd, I see both sides of the argument. In case anyone's wondering, the impetus for this thread came from this one on stopping the HB angle/flat route:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...at-routes.html



I think there are a good many who see something going on with the game and chalk it up to faulty AI or a broken this or that, when the truth is, maybe we don't have a full understanding of how everything work strategically. Man coverage is one I see a lot. Everyone complains about how the middle is wide open in two man under -- well that's kinda how it's designed. The corners play outside leverage. If you want to better guard the middle of the field, you should be calling a Cover 1 where the corners play more to the inside.

I was in the camp of "man coverage is broken" until I had my eyes opened up in the Palo's http://www.operationsports.com/forum...dd-madden.html thread by shttymcgee and Sven. I didn't have full understanding of what each coverage was designed to do.

On the flipside, I can't jive with everything TNT is saying, because you can't apply every stragetic football nuance to Madden. I should be able to play my best pass rusher as a RE and my strongest end at LE. Can't do that in Madden. My best pass rusher will disappear at RE. If I've got a good running game going, then the secondary should at least pause when I play-fake. Not in Madden.

Both sides should find a middle ground. The problems in Madden can't be just glossed over and put on the user as not having the requisite knowledge. But on the flipside, just because you're having a problem with a particular aspect of the game doesn't mean something is broken. The kneejerk "EA needs to fix this" is probably what led to the unbalanced "out of the box" gameplay that was pre-patch Madden 11, and definitely led to NCAA 11 being neutered from what was a wonderfully realistic and challenging game.



And p.s. no, the HB Angle route is not impossible to stop.