What is SIM Play Calling?

[sgibs7]

I thought this was a really interesting article about play calling. How does it relate to Madden? Personally I think there is a 100% correlation. Over the years people have "assumed" that limited play calling meant you werent running a true to life NFL offense. From this article below the Colts entire offensive attack for the past 10+ years revolved around very few plays/concepts and very few formations.

In Madden this is exactly how I play the game...

Power Rushing attack - run left, middle, and right. Find the open lane and take what the defense gives you.
Quick Pass - for blitzing situations
Man beaters - compression and pick routes
zone beaters - floods and route combos
base play - a play you can feel comfortable in and still make your reads and have all your pass protection scheme.

The above is the core of how i play the game and then I branch off from each formation to devlope more plays. On any given game I will run between 15-25 plays and will run between 5-7 formations each game. However because I run the same plays over and over some people believe that its not replicating what you see on Sundays - I personally believe this article by smartfootball.com shows how close this representation actually is - rather then what we as a community FEELS is real.

what do you guys think of some of hte quotes below and even of the article below?

http://smartfootball.com/offense/pey...-colts-offense

Quote:

Yet what really interested me was how they did it. Specifically, how Manning and the Colts — for thirteen years — ran the same tiny little cluster of plays, from the same tiny little cluster of formations, with the most consistent personnel in the league, and brutalized NFL defenses year-in and year-out

Quote:

Their coaches are like, ‘We’ll tell the other team what we’re doing. They got to stop us.’ That’s what they do. That’s what they’re all about. And not many teams have been able to stop them yet.

Quote:

“I can give the defense all the information that I can, and it’s, ‘Can we get to Peyton? Can we knock him down? Can we get to him before the ball’s out?’ You can know what route’s coming and still not cover it.”

Quote:

The Colts’ offense was, structurally at least, among the simplest in the league for the entire time Manning was there. They used only a handful of formations — and almost always lined up Marvin Harrison (and later Pierre Garçon) split wide to the right and Reggie Wayne split wide to the left — ten or so core pass plays and just a couple of core runs.

Quote:

The Colts running game really consisted of about three, maybe four plays.

Quote:

But the core of their run game consisted of their base zone plays and their “pin-and-pull” outside zone, which used zone principles involved pulling linemen at the point of attack.

[Dj_MyTime]

Not to say I disagree, but if this was applied in SIM leagues with the way this game works, I could see a league falling a part very quickly. Personally I'm not a SIM advocate. I'm more in the group of I will play you fairly, and not use game exploits to beat you. SIM's definition changes person to person, so IMO there is no clear definition of what it is exactly.

With that being said this is a game, and we DO NOT have the adjustments NFL teams do, and honestly there are plays that work better than others. I don't believe any user wants to guard the same 3, 5, 7 plays all game long. So from a SIM League stand-point I'd have to say I wouldn't be for that kind of limited play-calling.

Although I am aware that many NFL teams run the same plays, but out of different looks, particularly because of how a team may prefer to play defense. Example vs the Cov 2 zone scheme defense, you'd see more plays splitting safeties and linebackers to attack the gaps in the defense.

[RogueHominid]

That was a cool article. You can tell from watching the Colts play that it's a pretty short list of basic plays, which is interesting.

As for "sim" playcalling, I tink doing what your team normallly does fits the bill. If that means a very short list of plays and formations, so be it.

The problem, I think, is that "sim" anything is super subjective, and those that are most devoted to sim play often have serious disagreements about which plays are sim, which are broken/exploitative, which ones you can only call so many times a game, etc.

That said, I think the best way to enjoy and employ these insights is in the context of an offline franchise, where you'll avoid the hassle of negotiating those other concerns.

[Aftershock9958]

I'd read this article previously, and I was 99% sure this was going to come up somewhere at some point in reference to sim play. I thank you for not disappointing me.

to me, the simple and easy to understand reason why the Colts simplified offensive plan wouldn't be considered sim is because the talent gap that exists in the NFL doesn't exist in Madden. You can rock with the same 5 or so passing plays in Madden all game long and succeed. But transfer the Colts playbook to probably 29 or 30 other teams in real life, and it wouldn't translate like it does in the video game.

NFL Defensive coords had to, had to know what was coming game in and game out, and the Colts were still able to abuse teams into submission through the air non-stop for years. There were a very small percentage of defenses who were able to combat Manning's passing attack. When comparing to Madden, basically all defenses in the game are susceptible to the exact same game plan, but the difference being that you can pull it off with a major percentage of the starting QBs in the league.

[PioneerRaptor]

I'm going to agree with Trojan Man. Offline Franchise is the best place to play if you want to play SIM football. Why is that? Because SIM football is however you want to describe it.

In my opinion, I believe playing sim is what you believe to be playing a fair game against the cpu and not intentionally trying to exploit the game just to win.

[sgibs7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aftershock9958

I'd read this article previously, and I was 99% sure this was going to come up somewhere at some point in reference to sim play. I thank you for not disappointing me. to me, the simple and easy to understand reason why the Colts simplified offensive plan wouldn't be considered sim is because the talent gap that exists in the NFL doesn't exist in Madden. You can rock with the same 5 or so passing plays in Madden all game long and succeed. But transfer the Colts playbook to probably 29 or 30 other teams in real life, and it wouldn't translate like it does in the video game. NFL Defensive coords had to, had to know what was coming game in and game out, and the Colts were still able to abuse teams into submission through the air non-stop for years. There were a very small percentage of defenses who were able to combat Manning's passing attack. When comparing to Madden, basically all defenses in the game are susceptible to the exact same game plan, but the difference being that you can pull it off with a major percentage of the starting QBs in the league.

it just came out today - not sure if you read the stats somewhere else or you just read it earlier.

defenses are subjective to the same play calls - but thats where you have the ability to make adjustments to your defense and take away things that your opponent is doing.

There are 3 teams in Madden 12 that i feel confident running my offensive scheme with Packers, Saints, Giants.

There are 2 teams in Madden 12 that I feel confident running my defensive scheme with Packers and Giants.

My defense is press oriented and zoned out coverage in 3rd and long sitautions that relies on my DE to beat a blocker as he gets to the QB. 1st and 2nd down you are getting heavy man press and high pressure. 3rd down you are getting minaml pass rush with a cover 4 zone shell.

my offense relies on a HB that can catch and is great ins creen play. A QB that can make every throw based on his throw accuracy and also needs big targets downfield to user catch with.

i think thats an assumption of legacy issues that you can take 5 palys for one offensive scheme and they will translate to perfection to another team.

[Aftershock9958]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

it just came out today - not sure if you read the stats somewhere else or you just read it earlier. defenses are subjective to the same play calls - but thats where you have the ability to make adjustments to your defense and take away things that your opponent is doing. There are 3 teams in Madden 12 that i feel confident running my offensive scheme with Packers, Saints, Giants. There are 2 teams in Madden 12 that I feel confident running my defensive scheme with Packers and Giants. My defense is press oriented and zoned out coverage in 3rd and long sitautions that relies on my DE to beat a blocker as he gets to the QB. 1st and 2nd down you are getting heavy man press and high pressure. 3rd down you are getting minaml pass rush with a cover 4 zone shell. my offense relies on a HB that can catch and is great ins creen play. A QB that can make every throw based on his throw accuracy and also needs big targets downfield to user catch with. i think thats an assumption of legacy issues that you can take 5 palys for one offensive scheme and they will translate to perfection to another team.

It came out yesterday.

But no, it's not an assumption of legacy issues that you can run 5 plays and it will translate out. If you know how to read the defense you can typically adjust your routes to where you're really not running more than the same 5 plays, and see success.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

i think thats an assumption of legacy issues that you can take 5 palys for one offensive scheme and they will translate to perfection to another team.

Unless adaptive AI is in this game somewhere or in M13, then imo, no, it's not.

As far as "sim" playcalling - if you're calling a game that one or more of:

-Matches your personnel
-Matches how your team plays (which likely goes back to personnel)
-Doesn't exploit the AI/flawed mechanics

Then it's realistic, which is a term I prefer because it has a basis in objective, quantifiable fact - either the team's stats/playcalling/tape or talents of its personnel.