Sim vs Arcade: Madden Debate

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

Give me simulation football with control.

Depending on what you mean by control, the two are mutually exclusive.

[hanzsomehanz]

I hear all the points and do not refute a single.

I look at arcade as a game I could quickly pick up and play ala nfl blitz in an arcade hall. I dont connote that arcade is quick play alone but it also has a reckless, hyperactive, road of least resistance.

In my experience, Maden NFL Simulation connotes more overhead on the actual DNA of how football is expressed and recieved at the pro level in the NFL.

Fig.1

A race car simulator simulates the capacity of each car and the physics of mobility in respect to the cars in the racing enviornment.

It is like taking the NFL as your blueprint and imprinting that model into a video game product.

Simply put, the more you cater to the original product of the NFL the more sim you reveal the product to be true to the sport and true to life.

Sim and Arcade can both have
*practice drills
*rules
*visual effects/cues

These may be bridges to understanding but the division should be met by the overarching differences in how each product emulates reality versus fantasy.

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[sgibs7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

Depending on what you mean by control, the two are mutually exclusive.

control to me = make my players and team do exactly what I tell them to. no limitations.

[Big FN Deal]

Not directed at the OP but the idea of a Madden debate about Sim vs Arcade is hilarious, considering "Madden" is alleged to intended to be a simulation video game, lol. This goes on quite often around here and other places and I find it so bizarre given the games stated goal.

I can't wait to one day have a choice in NFL video games again, it's a shame the way EA marketing has bamboozled, hoodwinked, runamuck and lead astray their community.

[cuttingteeth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

Agree with most of your post, but definitely not the bolded. There isn't as much demand for a new Madden from fans as you think. There is a great demand for updated rosters, but not necessarily a whole new game every year. If they were to completely support last years Madden with patches and roster updates, I can pretty much guarantee that the most recent version would be the worst selling version of all time. The demand for a yearly Madden is primarily coming from the NFL and EA's pockets. Not really the consumer's demand.

I meant that being conditioned to expect a yearly game and that people keep paying for it, as well, that allows only a few features a year to be worked on going towards the gradual, hopeful notion that eventually the game will be completely what everyone wants. It really doesn't happen that the game only builds (and doesn't regress), though. Limiting customization of rosters every so many years, having new uniforms come about every single year, now, new stadiums keep being built, etc....are the little quirks that get under our skin just enough to likely keep us pining for the new game with those additions. They are, in fact, absolutely using "sim" characteristics to string us along while steadily keeping enough of an arcade tone to the game. It's a great business model, no matter how mad we get at them, and admittedly one has to give them credit.

[SageInfinite]

I want the game to be grounded in realism and simulation, but have options and settings to tailor to our own preferences. Like personally I don't want to be on the field. I don't want to feel like I'm playing football. I'm not into superstar or myplayer modes. I want the game to look like it does on a broadcast(not play from that view, but it should be there by default). I want to feel like I'm controlling the players I see on Sunday.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

control to me = make my players and team do exactly what I tell them to. no limitations.

You have just described what a sim is not lol.

You are not in control at all times of your body in real life and any game that has you in total control at all times is not a simulation.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

control to me = make my players and team do exactly what I tell them to. no limitations.

When i first read the bold it irked me because I looked at it through a narrow prism. However when applying it in a broader sense to realism and real life parameters I agree but I wonder if you meant it that way. Truly to have "no limitations" in regard to User control means that the training wheels come off and the User can flat out fail, as well as succeed and even fail more so because having complete control of even one in-game player should be challenging.

I am talking applicable and reasonable "no limitations" in-game too, not some impossible 1:1 simulation of real life. So for example, if you want max User control of player movement, then there should be a control mechanic available to you that allows both the risk AND reward of that, not just the reward.

Make the User that desires max control be responsible for securing the ball (wrap button/catch button) and staying upright/balanced (left/right stick), while trying to be evasive. Don't half arse the "stick skill", give them complete control, which includes the capability for the in-game player to fall down, lose the ball, fail.