2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

tabarnes19_SDS

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Join Date: Feb 2003

Posts: 3084
#1

2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

03-13-2011, 05:40 PM

Guys I didn’t really want to start another thread, but with all the info and pictures I have I really thought it was appropriate. I have spent about 40 hours running through franchise mode, trying to find work arounds to issues and just trying to figure out in general what is going on. I have bounced ideas off of Knight (man this guy must be insane juggling rosters, testing, playing and working), so a big Thanks goes out to him.

We all know that the 2013 glitch is still in the system. Basically what this is, is in the third season many players (Big Name) go unsigned. I have noticed it to be mostly pitchers. There are many theories out there speculating that it is because of incoming draft classes, training, arbitration, or code left out etc..(One area I do believe code was left out is trade logic) It seems largely the same after more extensive testing. Most trades happen in May and I have yet to see a trade happen in last week heading to trade deadline. I have ran easily 100 sims)
What I can tell you is from what I see it is a combination of ALL of the above. Every system in franchise is interconnected. Retirements affect drafts, training affects increases in attributes which in turn affects how much salary the player makes. Potential affects trades as well as how the cpu utilizes their roster.

What I hope to do is explain and show you through pictures what is going on in the system and the improvements that HAVE been made and where the issues are. This may help you ,if you want to step in using 30 team control (By knowing when you have to step in) or hopefully assist the developers in finding the root cause. Turning training off and having no training will delay the problem by a year or two. Below is a screen grab with manual training from year 5. Trust me when I say this, I love this game and it is so close to being perfect.



So lets begin….
When you get to offseason one things look pretty good. All prospects seem to have 2-3 year deals..(This will be important to remember later) Teams are offering arbitration and offering contracts/renewing players on the 40 man. This part of the offseason you can tell has been worked on. Last year players that renewable or Arbitration eligible would be given huge deals. This year that does not appear to be the case. I remember last year Strasburg being in the minors making 10 million. Remember salary is tied to ratings not performance. This year you can see that has been improved.


This allows the cpu some cost certainty. Remember that as long as a player is offered SOMETHING and they have less than 6 years mlb service they will be considered signed. Why is that important to 30 team franchise users? Before Dec. 2 or whatever is the last day to offer arbitration…go through the cpu teams rosters and offer a contract to any player that you feel should be kept on that team. I usually make sure all A and B prospects and rising stars. The key is to offer really LOW. As long as they are offered the cpu will either renew them or settle in arbitration.


Here is what I don’t understand….The CPU seems to almost always offer arbitration to players it should in first couple years. On occasions it doesn’t, notable up and coming stars with less than 3 years service.

 Now offseason two is where the wheels start to come off. The reason I think is because minor leaguers are not renewed and hit the open market. When you have A potential young prospects getting paid as FA money dries up in a hurry. These players should have renewable listed next to their names, but don’t, I think it may be a database error because if offered any amount of money the system treats them as renewable and allows you to renew them the last day of the OffSeason.

 As you can see these A prospects are earning WAY too much money when they should be making less than 100K. Worst yet is prospects move from team to team in FA and then some are not signed. Here is the OFFSEASON 2 FA list. Notice the A and B pot prospects.


Now offseason three is where everything falls apart. Newly drafted players are moving in, the flood of A potential players that are not renewed hit the market and A ton of MLB players are Free Agents. The perfect storm. Last year teams would sign and go over budget. Players would demand a ton of money and never sign. This year there has been an improvement there. The CPU will sign players CHEAP if they are still on the market in late Feb.

 But the problem is they run out of roster space. Now I have a theory to that as well. The FA list this year in three times as big, with many names on it and varying potential. During the season some of these are signed and in the offseason some are signed. Others retire and again the draft replaces them….where do all these new players go? At the end of that third season the FA list looks like this.

 Now the silver lining to all of this is that Almost all cpu teams have between 5-15 million to spend. Hopefully this is something that can be addressed. If not, I believe that with 30 team control it will be easier than last year to stem the problem. If any one has any other ideas or sees anything I am missing I would love to hear them.
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tabarnes19_SDS

Game Designer

Join Date: Feb 2003

Posts: 3084
#2

03-13-2011, 05:54 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

Originally posted by CuseGirl

OK, I hear people worrying about the franchise/FA glitch being present STILL. I have not heard ANYONE talk about RTTS. I DO NOT play franchise mode, I have no desire to do so. But I love RTTS and if I'm due a big fictional pay day after 7 horrible years with Cleveland, I want my pay day. Is this same cockamaimie system being used in RTTS?

I believe so. Same system applies.
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BwanaKuu

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#3

03-13-2011, 06:03 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

Originally posted by tabarnes19

I believe so. Same system applies.

I might test this by simming seasons in RTTS. Obviously my player will never go anywhere but if there are any FA problems it should show up. Is there a way to see the free agents available in RTTS? I guess I could just check rosters and see if they're full of younger A guys signed for low money.

Created a random 1B, simming first season now

Last edited by BwanaKuu; 03-13-2011, 06:07 PM.

What would Doc do?
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Two Seamer

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#4

03-13-2011, 06:15 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

It affected RTTS last year and presumably would this year since the same system operates in both modes. Good to test anyway.

Could it be as simple as adding in some code that lowers the "market value" (asking price) of players without any service time (prospects)?

The more I think about it, the more obvious it seems to me that the problems stems from budgets freezing. After the first couple of years, they increase. But then they level off. The talent pool expands, but the money runs out.

It seems that either progressively increasing the budgets or artificially capping the price of prospects might clean most of this up. Maybe some combination of both. Or maybe I'm way off.

Thanks for the post, tabarnes.
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joshopsu

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#5

03-13-2011, 07:18 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

So if I use 30 team control and offer arbitration (or a lowball offer) to most minor league players and most MLB players with less than 6 yrs experience, will this correct the problem???

I'm not too worried about a few big name free agents. For example, as a Phillie fan, I never expected WAS to sign Werth to a big contract.

BUT, I am worried about PROSPECTS (under 22-24 years old) being in the free agent pool. That should not happen whatsoever.
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ktd1976

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#6

03-13-2011, 08:25 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

Originally posted by joshopsu

So if I use 30 team control and offer arbitration (or a lowball offer) to most minor league players and most MLB players with less than 6 yrs experience, will this correct the problem???

I'm not too worried about a few big name free agents. For example, as a Phillie fan, I never expected WAS to sign Werth to a big contract.

BUT, I am worried about PROSPECTS (under 22-24 years old) being in the free agent pool. That should not happen whatsoever.

Do what I do....and what Tabarnes said to do....go to EVERY team, make an offer to every young player with less than 6 years exp. (you don't have to offer arbitration, these young players automatically go to arbitration if they don't agree to the terms you offered....remember, they are under team control yet...offering arbitration only comes into place with players who have over 6 years exp). If you see a veteran (player with 6 years or more exp.) Let the CPU handle the players with 6 years or more of exp. This will keep the prospects and young players that should be under team control UNDER TEAM CONTROL.

Remember, non-tendering a player with less than 6 years exp. makes them a Free Agent.....this is where the problem is....

You don't have to offer players with less than 6 years exp. arbitration.....just make an offer...if they refuse, you can either renew their contract, or they automatically go to arbitration (depending on service time)

Last edited by ktd1976; 03-13-2011, 08:27 PM. Reason: something to add
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BwanaKuu

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#7

03-13-2011, 08:44 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

Originally posted by ktd1976

Do what I do....and what Tabarnes said to do....go to EVERY team, make an offer to every young player with less than 6 years exp. (you don't have to offer arbitration, these young players automatically go to arbitration if they don't agree to the terms you offered....remember, they are under team control yet...offering arbitration only comes into place with players who have over 6 years exp). If you see a veteran (player with 6 years or more exp.) Let the CPU handle the players with 6 years or more of exp. This will keep the prospects and young players that should be under team control UNDER TEAM CONTROL.

Remember, non-tendering a player with less than 6 years exp. makes them a Free Agent.....this is where the problem is....

You don't have to offer players with less than 6 years exp. arbitration.....just make an offer...if they refuse, you can either renew their contract, or they automatically go to arbitration (depending on service time)

Can we have training on if we do this? This seems like a lengthier but better fix than simply turning training off which just delayed the problem.

What would Doc do?
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Instant C1a55ic

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#8

03-13-2011, 08:45 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for figuring this out, you guys just gave me a reason to play test franchises till Knights rosters come out.

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ktd1976

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#9

03-13-2011, 08:52 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

Originally posted by BwanaKuu

Can we have training on if we do this? This seems like a lengthier but better fix than simply turning training off which just delayed the problem.

That is a great question...and it prolly needs some testing. The problem with training players, is that they develop WAY faster than they should.

The main thing I'm concerned with if players are trained, is will the prospects that end up going to arbitration end up winning a crapload more money than they really should?

I think it would work with training.....except you may have a problem with teams running out of budget room

Last edited by ktd1976; 03-13-2011, 08:54 PM. Reason: something to add
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BwanaKuu

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#10

03-13-2011, 08:54 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

I'm doing my own tests with default rosters and not experiencing anything like the original post. It does seem that the FA pool grows but there's no big names in there. I am going through the 4th offseason, will post results after it sims through.

I'm in 2015 and not seeing the issue. Every single player on the Phillies roster is a MLB player except for a few relievers who are fake SCEA players. So what exactly is the issue I'm looking for?

The FA pool from the START of my franchise was actually better than my FA pool in 2015... so where's the problem? Maybe it's the roster update? Was the original test done with default or updated rosters?

BTW, with EVERYTHING on auto, somehow, in 2015, Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels are still on the phillies rotation...

Last edited by BwanaKuu; 03-13-2011, 09:09 PM.

What would Doc do?
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jrich730

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#11

03-13-2011, 09:08 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

i have a question and that is are all the A potential players on the 40 man or not when there contracts come up for renewal because you can only renew when they are on the 40 man? so maybe if you

sign and release the A potential players until they get 3 year contracts

add them to the 40 man after year 3 so they have 3 years of contract renewable years and 3 arbitration years

or has this been tried? seems like a lot of work I know just trying a suggestion

another question why are strasburg already at arbitration? super 2?
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Glenn33

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#12

03-13-2011, 09:14 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

Is there a resolution to this issue that doesn't involve controlling all 30 teams? I really don't enjoy having to do that.
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BwanaKuu

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#13

03-13-2011, 09:38 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

So maybe I'm just an idiot but I am still not seeing the issue. I am now in 2016 and once again, hardly any of these infamous young players filling up all the rosters...

As I said in my previous post, comparing the REAL MLB FA pool that you have at the start of 2011 with default rosters, the FA pool in 2016 is better. The real one has a lot of higher rated players but this only has Hanley Ramirez as a really big name guy the rest are either really old (talking 38+) or just not that good. I really don't see the issue that everyone else does... shouldn't there be a decent number of MLB players in FA?

And once again, my lineup/rotation is made up guys in the 30-35 range and I had everything set to auto.

Maybe it was the roster update that screwed something up? Can someone else test with default rosters?

To add on to this, my MLB team is late 20s/early 30s, my AAA team is late 20s/some early 30s, my AA team is mid-late 20s and my single A is teens to early 20s which seems exactly as it should be. Only the single a and double a teams have a lot of fake SCEA players as they should.

Last edited by BwanaKuu; 03-13-2011, 09:42 PM.

What would Doc do?
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tabarnes19_SDS

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#14

03-13-2011, 09:46 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

Originally posted by BwanaKuu

So maybe I'm just an idiot but I am still not seeing the issue. I am now in 2016 and once again, hardly any of these infamous young players filling up all the rosters...

As I said in my previous post, comparing the REAL MLB FA pool that you have at the start of 2011 with default rosters, the FA pool in 2016 is better. The real one has a lot of higher rated players but this only has Hanley Ramirez as a really big name guy the rest are either really old (talking 38+) or just not that good. I really don't see the issue that everyone else does... shouldn't there be a decent number of MLB players in FA?

And once again, my lineup/rotation is made up guys in the 30-35 range and I had everything set to auto.

Maybe it was the roster update that screwed something up? Can someone else test with default rosters?

To add on to this, my MLB team is late 20s/early 30s, my AAA team is late 20s/some early 30s, my AA team is mid-late 20s and my single A is teens to early 20s which seems exactly as it should be. Only the single a and double a teams have a lot of fake SCEA players as they should.

I have simmed numerous times with everything set to auto. I have tried the default roster, latest live roster as well as an edited roster removing about 12 free agent players and replacing them with c pot 24 year olds. I have always gotten the same results on two different systems. One upstairs and one downstairs.

When you get to the 3rd offseason and hit spring training check the FA list. There is where you will see the big name players.

Like I said it is actually better than last year. Something is off.
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tabarnes19_SDS

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#15

03-13-2011, 09:49 PM

Re: 2013 Issue Explained (With Pics)

Originally posted by jrich730

i have a question and that is are all the A potential players on the 40 man or not when there contracts come up for renewal because you can only renew when they are on the 40 man? so maybe if you

sign and release the A potential players until they get 3 year contracts

add them to the 40 man after year 3 so they have 3 years of contract renewable years and 3 arbitration years

or has this been tried? seems like a lot of work I know just trying a suggestion

another question why are strasburg already at arbitration? super 2?

I tried doing the roster/player move to change contract length, but it doesn't seem to be working for me.

According to the Show Strasburg got full MLB credit for last year, the first year simmed and the the second year he had 3 years ...so Arb eligible.
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