Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

[Bobhead]

I have to agree with this thread. There isn't enough of a gap between the break and quality of the worst changeup at the MLB level, and the best changeup at the MLB level.

I can kind of say the same about all off-speed pitches, though to a lesser extent. Most curveballs have a realistic level of accuracy, but the breaks are a little too sharp across the board.

That's not to say all pitchers are the same. There is definitely a difference in overall performance... but it feels like that difference is entirely represented in accuracy (how often can they paint the corner), and mathematics (how many hits do I get)... The quality of the pitcher shows up in the box score, but I don't SEE the difference, myself, when watching the pitch come in. I don't SEE that pitcher X's curveball has a fairly small break, or that pitcher Y's changeup has almost no drop at all.

Now that we have the "realistic pitch trajectories" thing, I think the next step is to make it so that the movement and control ratings for the pitch have a strong influence on that trajectory, and the perceived break of the pitch.

[55]

I've been playing on Legend difficulty and these 15-20 MPH difference changeups are bad enough, but when the pitcher also has a Bugs Bunny curveball it makes it almost impossible.

[yankeesgiants]

Quote: Originally Posted by 55

I've been playing on Legend difficulty and these 15-20 MPH difference changeups are bad enough, but when the pitcher also has a Bugs Bunny curveball it makes it almost impossible.

[slugga77]

Quote: Originally Posted by therewillbechud

The changeup this year is a more effective pitch than in the past, no question. But as Keirik pointed out Pedro had the arsenal to play off that changeup, he didn't make it to the HOF on one pitch. A lot of pitchers may have a great changeup in this game, but they're still not great pitchers. If you're continuing to get beat by one pitch you're not making the adjustments. If the changeup is the bane of your existence at the plate and you're not hitting every fastball the other way waiting on the change, it's your fault the guy keeps using it to get you out. You're asking him to keep throwing it. And generally in my experience, when you sit on the changeup, it gets hit somewhere hard.

I got a kick out this post, I would agree with you 100% if this were real life, but it's a video game. The mental aspect of the pitcher cannot be taken that realistically lol

[jcar0725]

Quote: Originally Posted by slugga77

I got a kick out this post, I would agree with you 100% if this were real life, but it's a video game. The mental aspect of the pitcher cannot be taken that realistically lol

Actually, the game is designed to keep getting you out based on how you get yourself out. If you keep swinging and missing at a high fastball out of the zone, he'll keep throwing it there.

If you keep swinging and missing at pitches out of the zone, he'll keep throwing it there.

[cardinalbird5]

Quote: Originally Posted by therewillbechud

Sounds like an excuse to me, it's not that you got fooled, it's that the pitch is better than what it should be? Well if you swung and missed at it then you did get fooled by it, how "good" the pitch is is irrelevant. Everyone gets fooled by the changeup sometimes, and it has a more pronounced effect in this years game. But on the contrast breaking balls are much easier to read, sliders outside and high fastballs much easier to lay off than any previous version. If you take the change away against a lot of players, the CPU will not have much of a go to pitch to put guys away in this version of the game. You can't have it all. And not every pitcher in the game has a devastating changeup, like I said, stop trying to pull everything and the changeup is not much of an issue.

I think you are missing the point. It has nothing to do with people "stepping up their game" or w/e. I've been ranked in the top 10 past 4 years w/ a 300+ avg and won the past 2 COTW's, and I can say for a fact that they just flat out messed up on a lot of the pitchers' changeups in this game. It has nothing to do with recognizing it or not. The fact is that pitchers like Tanaka, who doesn't even throw a changeup IRL or any pitch around 72-75 mph for that matter, have wrong pitch edits on the SCEA roster. Look here: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...on=P#pitchtype
His curveball should be around 72...not a changeup...

It's not a huge problem for offline, but for online and DD it is ridiculous. People do not even mix up their pitches anymore. it is just low changeups/high fastballs the entire game. Do I still win? Yes I am 46-1 for online rated games, but it is not realistic at all.

It is not just Tanaka either that has wrong pitch edits. Pitchers like Eddie Butler, whose average changeup velo was 86 last year, is 75-77 in the game. They have a lot of pitchers' pitch edits just flat out wrong. It doesn't need patched, but they just need to fix the darn rosters and pitch velocities.

This was a problem in MLB 12 with Diamond Dynasty where they had to patch the attributes. You had guys throwing 101 mph fastballs with 69 mph changeups. That was for the fictional players though and this won't even require a patch. It is a simple fix really and I don't understand why it hasn't been fixed yet via roster update.

Quote: Originally Posted by therewillbechud

Quantifying it that way doesn't really make a lot of sense. When I hit a 99 MPH fastball in the game, it's not actually traveling at 99mph, that's just what the game says it is. I know this because it's not all that hard to actually hit one on the game. People take it far too literally and get cut up about this inconsistency or that. If you play a full 162 game season things are going to balance out, just like they do in real life. The change may be a little overpowered during your journey, but that compensates for other things. If you have the right approach at the plate and make 2 strike adjustments most importantly, you won't be waving and flailing around the plate. 2 strikes, hit fastball the other way, aim to hit the slider/sinker/cutter up the middle, and you will by default be more prepared for the changeup and be able to handle that pitch. Keep trying to pull the fastball when you're down in the count and yes, you will get dominated by the changeup all night. This is all I do at the plate, and I strike out on average about 6-7 times per game, and most of those are my fault rather than good pitching. It's a very easy adjustment to make.

We all know that on default pitch slider, the speed in the game is not a true 1:1 ratio. 99 mph fastball on 5 pitch speed is really around 88-89. The thing is though that the game does a good job with consistency with the pitch speeds. Meaning every single pitch will be 10-12 mph slower than what the game actually says. So if you are on 5 pitch speed you can expect a 99 fastball to be really coming in at 89 mph and a 89 mph change is really 79. Again, the issue is not the recognition of the changeup itself, but the real issue is that the pitch edits are just not accurate.

It'd be like if they gave Wainwright a 69 mph changeup for no reason and then me telling you to step up your game because you complain it is not realistic.

[El_MaYiMbE]

I changed my speed slider to 8 in order to compensate for this.

Yes the speed differential is still the same, but it makes it easier to adjust to a change up, and fastball is still fast and hard to hit when its up, but adjustable when you are looking for it.

[Brando70]

The changeup is by far the hardest pitch for me to hit. I can get hung out to dry badly on a good curve and slider, or frozen on a fastball to the corner of the zone. But I cannot seem to adjust to the changeup. I am almost always early on them, even when looking for it. I feel like I can't read the pitch at all because it looks like a fastball nearly every time.