player ratings in 20

[thawkprime 21]

Has there been anything released yet that shows player ratings for non Diamond Dynasty. I am very interested to see how the real minor league players are rated, as in previous years it seemed to me that offical seca players were rated higher than the full minors guys by riddin.

[Therebelyell626]

Quote: Originally Posted by thawkprime 21

Has there been anything released yet that shows player ratings for non Diamond Dynasty. I am very interested to see how the real minor league players are rated, as in previous years it seemed to me that offical seca players were rated higher than the full minors guys by riddin.

There has been screen released from Road to the show/ M20 that show player ratings. They seemed to be scaled for DD once again throughout the entire game which means they will make no sense whatsoever as usual. Can’t have a top 5 MVP candidate rated correctly because they need people clamoring for that ever elusive 99 overall Ralph Kiner with 125 power against righties 🙄

[JoshC1977]

Quote: Originally Posted by thawkprime 21

Has there been anything released yet that shows player ratings for non Diamond Dynasty. I am very interested to see how the real minor league players are rated, as in previous years it seemed to me that offical seca players were rated higher than the full minors guys by riddin.

No there hasn't and I'm chomping at the bit hoping they are in-line with SDS' past rosters as SDS rosters have offered a much more stable franchise mode experience than the custom FM ones did.

The biggest issue, last year's OD Full Minors roster only had about 150 D potential players (compared to well over 600 in SDS' OD roster - I stopped counting after a while...lol). That's a significant difference which alters trade AI, regression, draft pick progression, player retirements, fewer high end FAs not signing, etc.

That difference is a byproduct of SDS only having 90 roster spots per team - so custom roster folks are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They have fans of 30 teams screaming about their pet prospects down in the Sally league (98% of whom will never amount to nothing). So, either you mimic real AAA/AA rosters (featuring a lot of guys that will never make the majors - which is true to life) with a smattering of other guys in A-ball to keep things stable in franchise mode....OR....you jam in as many prospects you can into the 90 man (at the expense of realism and franchise mode stability).

Now...speaking for myself, I will always favor franchise mode stability. It's why I don't use custom rosters, draft classes, etc. in my sports games. Now, I am just hoping the collaboration between SDS and the FM team will provide us with a great FM roster that is also stable with the current franchise mode environment.

[Therebelyell626]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoshC1977

No there hasn't and I'm chomping at the bit hoping they are in-line with SDS' past rosters as SDS rosters have offered a much more stable franchise mode experience than the custom FM ones did. The biggest issue, last year's OD Full Minors roster only had about 150 D potential players (compared to well over 600 in SDS' OD roster - I stopped counting after a while...lol). That's a significant difference which alters trade AI, regression, draft pick progression, player retirements, fewer high end FAs not signing, etc. That difference is a byproduct of SDS only having 90 roster spots per team - so custom roster folks are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They have fans of 30 teams screaming about their pet prospects down in the Sally league (98% of whom will never amount to nothing). So, either you mimic real AAA/AA rosters (featuring a lot of guys that will never make the majors - which is true to life) with a smattering of other guys in A-ball to keep things stable in franchise mode....OR....you jam in as many prospects you can into the 90 man (at the expense of realism and franchise mode stability). Now...speaking for myself, I will always favor franchise mode stability. It's why I don't use custom rosters, draft classes, etc. in my sports games. Now, I am just hoping the collaboration between SDS and the FM team will provide us with a great FM roster that is also stable with the current franchise mode environment.

Dang josh! This is really well thought out

[Brewers 15]

Very intrigued by this josh . I don’t really understand much about the roster rating stuff because I have always just played franchise like a season mode using my favorite team and any transactions are just as real life. Anyways this may explain why I have not had the results to make it feel like a sim experience the last 2 years as I have been using custom roster , since I really don’t know what to look for when the 20 ratings are released could you possibly post here how you feel about them ?? May make the difference in me buying the game this year, I have been leaning towards just giving up and not buying it anymore but this could turn out being the best improvement this year.

[Funkycorm]

I have similar theories. As I have said in my roster thread and have then been told I am crazy on my PS4 account.

The full minors, osfm rosters are a great work and a lot of work is put into them. The problem is that the potential ratings are too high. Way too high.

Example, if I asked someone what the average player rating overall should be, you would probably tell me 82-84. That's probably what you target for your starting lineup and rotation.

You would say that because the full minors roster tells us that and we all want those high rated players. We all want that player to turn into a 99 overall and have a team full of Mike Trout's.

What if I told you the average should be 74-76. Look at the base roster like Josh said and look at the distribution. Those players in that range, that make up a big chunk of the league, are your every day go in and do your job players.

This is why I spend hours adjusting potentials in the full minors roster.

The problem isn't in year one or year two, but once you reach year 3, all those players who should be 75 overall and every day players are now all 85 because their potential is too high and all want to be stars on your team.

Heck the game tells us that in morale once a player is about 85 overall they want to be classified as a star in your lineup. Now with the boosted potentials you now have 10 guys wanting those 3 spots.

Once again this year, I will be spending multiple hours fixing potentials to make the roster enjoyable long term.

Anyway that is just my maniacal crazy two cents.

[JoshC1977]

Quote: Originally Posted by Funkycorm

I have similar theories. As I have said in my roster thread and have then been told I am crazy on my PS4 account. The full minors, osfm rosters are a great work and a lot of work is put into them. The problem is that the potential ratings are too high. Way too high. Example, if I asked someone what the average player rating overall should be, you would probably tell me 82-84. That's probably what you target for your starting lineup and rotation. You would say that because the full minors roster tells us that and we all want those high rated players. We all want that player to turn into a 99 overall and have a team full of Mike Trout's. What if I told you the average should be 74-76. Look at the base roster like Josh said and look at the distribution. Those players in that range, that make up a big chunk of the league, are your every day go in and do your job players. This is why I spend hours adjusting potentials in the full minors roster. The problem isn't in year one or year two, but once you reach year 3, all those players who should be 75 overall and every day players are now all 85 because their potential is too high and all want to be stars on your team. Heck the game tells us that in morale once a player is about 85 overall they want to be classified as a star in your lineup. Now with the boosted potentials you now have 10 guys wanting those 3 spots. Once again this year, I will be spending multiple hours fixing potentials to make the roster enjoyable long term. Anyway that is just my maniacal crazy two cents.

I'm SO glad someone else gets where I am coming from. The higher potentials are a major issue. Interestingly, I took the Opening Day Full Minors roster and compared to SDS' Opening Day roster. The number of 'A' potential guys wasn't that different. But, as I said in my earlier post, the number of 'D' potential guys was WAY off....as much as 25% MORE players on 90 man rosters being a C potential or higher in the custom roster....i.e. adding 25% MORE potential major leaguers.

I can usually tell you in about 10 mins if a roster may cause issues or not. Auto-simulate year 1, the year 1 offseason, and Spring Training in year 2. What is the highest overall of the remaining free agents? If it's in the high 70s or above, you have an issue. If it's around 70, you're likely going to be in decent shape.
Why? Because the usual slew of D potential guys have not been flushed out...as C potential (or higher), they are sitting there re-signed and often with ratings that make the major-league viable. So, instead of re-signing a 32 yr old with an 82 rating, teams have spent a lot more money on those middling guys because they still carry some upside. What happens? Useful vets spend seasons unsigned, regress, and retire too early. Seasons afterwards, teams get maxed-out on cap space trying to sign/re-sign a higher proportion of players with higher ratings - causing the issue here to proliferate even more.

Then minor league development. More guys in the base roster with higher ratings/potentials mean that those A potential draftees are on the bench....so they don't develop until they hit their mid-20s.

Trades. WAY too easy to re-build via trade when every team is stock-full of A/B potential guys. Try trading when you have maybe a couple of As and a couple of Bs...MUCH harder and a much more agonizing choice.

Then...give it 3-5 seasons and you have lost a ton of player/roster differentiation.

Long story short, taking that "jam every prospect into the roster" approach and elevating the overall average potential across the league, and you're going to be stuck with a badly imbalanced league for about 15 seasons until that entire slew of players has been cleared out. If that happens this year, it will be the first year that SDS can be fairly blamed for the franchise mode issues.

March 13th for me will consist of 3 phases:
1. Count number of 'D' potential players in the roster, if under 600 players, go to stage 2.
2. Simulate season in franchise (and possibly up to 3-5) to see if any 'under the hood' tweaking was done.
3. If results from either stage 1 or 2 are acceptable, I will use the roster. If not, I will carry on with my franchise from 19 I started using an early-season SDS roster.

[Funkycorm]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoshC1977

I'm SO glad someone else gets where I am coming from. The higher potentials are a major issue. Interestingly, I took the Opening Day Full Minors roster and compared to SDS' Opening Day roster. The number of 'A' potential guys wasn't that different. But, as I said in my earlier post, the number of 'D' potential guys was WAY off....as much as 25% MORE players on 90 man rosters being a C potential or higher in the custom roster....i.e. adding 25% MORE potential major leaguers. I can usually tell you in about 10 mins if a roster may cause issues or not. Auto-simulate year 1, the year 1 offseason, and Spring Training in year 2. What is the highest overall of the remaining free agents? If it's in the high 70s or above, you have an issue. If it's around 70, you're likely going to be in decent shape. Why? Because the usual slew of D potential guys have not been flushed out...as C potential (or higher), they are sitting there re-signed and often with ratings that make the major-league viable. So, instead of re-signing a 32 yr old with an 82 rating, teams have spent a lot more money on those middling guys because they still carry some upside. What happens? Useful vets spend seasons unsigned, regress, and retire too early. Seasons afterwards, teams get maxed-out on cap space trying to sign/re-sign a higher proportion of players with higher ratings - causing the issue here to proliferate even more. Then minor league development. More guys in the base roster with higher ratings/potentials mean that those A potential draftees are on the bench....so they don't develop until they hit their mid-20s. Trades. WAY too easy to re-build via trade when every team is stock-full of A/B potential guys. Try trading when you have maybe a couple of As and a couple of Bs...MUCH harder and a much more agonizing choice. Then...give it 3-5 seasons and you have lost a ton of player/roster differentiation. Long story short, taking that "jam every prospect into the roster" approach and elevating the overall average potential across the league, and you're going to be stuck with a badly imbalanced league for about 15 seasons until that entire slew of players has been cleared out. If that happens this year, it will be the first year that SDS can be fairly blamed for the franchise mode issues. March 13th for me will consist of 3 phases: 1. Count number of 'D' potential players in the roster, if under 600 players, go to stage 2. 2. Simulate season in franchise (and possibly up to 3-5) to see if any 'under the hood' tweaking was done. 3. If results from either stage 1 or 2 are acceptable, I will use the roster. If not, I will carry on with my franchise from 19 I started using an early-season SDS roster.

I too definitely appreciate the similar mindset.

Honestly I never thought about the amount of D prospects. I was so focused on bringing the B prospects to the median of 75. This gives me the idea to go and make even more edits to the overall roster. I appreciate the good idea. Thanks. I really do. It's something that honestly never occurred to me and can help further fix my ideas.

I am going to to through my roster from 19 and continue to make a bunch of changes as my plan is to only continue franchises from 19 or start a new one now with this philosophy. I am a sim 6 to 7 years in the future and play in my own universe kind of guy and I think the adding of more D prospects is brilliant.

I have run probably a good 50 seasons of simulation on 19. Heck, I spend a good hour each off season editing ages and lowering drafted prospect potential. But I only ever stopped at 78 or so. I really have gotten the league to a much better level long term and I think this D prospect editing will do that even more so.

So thanks for the great idea that never occurred to me.