AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

[Whomario]

Part of the problem is the player (us) having "gods-view" rather than a more limited and realistic field of vision. Part of the reason these rotations seem so bad is that they are so easy to see with the wide-angle camera we are having.

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by DC

So my question is always this. How can a basketball video game accurately simulate bad awareness without us saying the game is BROKEN? Bad awareness happens MULTIPLE times during real games, so to PURPOSELY replicate that in a video game without you thinking it is a GAME issue vs. it being a defender just being out of position. Please answer

I think the point is it should bust in transition or with a bad rotation off a series of passes. To just leave a known shooter and dive into the paint to dig when there's no immediate threat feels a bit off.

That being said, as usual with these thread titles, it's a bad way to go about making your point with shoddy hyperbole, but I understand the beef with the example shown.

If that was Ben Simmons or Josh Jackson rather than CP3, I wouldn't have any problem with the example.

[coolcras7]

Quote: Originally Posted by sudanmalkovich

It's not simulating bad awareness or anything. the video above is done by developers and they were talking AI improvement with it.. it was designed to ignore bums who can't shoot outside and protect the paint. simply the logic's not working the way it was supposed to. some calls it broken.

Glad you posted the video, so the issue is either Bad shooter are make 3's or the AI is not recognizing good shooter from bad either way it needs to be fixed.

[Thrustie]

Quote: Originally Posted by extremeskins04

Quick questions: 1. What is the Awareness and IQ of that defender? Who's the player? 2. Do you have Help defense on Auto, whether it's screen or drive? 3. What sliders are you using? Default?

I'm in mycareer on HOF so I can't mess with sliders. I think it depends on the offensive sets the other team uses too because some games the CPU exploits it way less than other teams. The players don't seem to matter much as I've seen pretty much every player on my team do the same thing; and the opposing team as well.

[Thrustie]

Quote: Originally Posted by Whomario

Part of the problem is the player (us) having "gods-view" rather than a more limited and realistic field of vision. Part of the reason these rotations seem so bad is that they are so easy to see with the wide-angle camera we are having.

It's not even a rotation though. Your guy will leave his cover wide open as the other team is dribbling up the court. Before any switches or passes are even made.

[OGSPORTS]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChaseB

I think the point is it should bust in transition or with a bad rotation off a series of passes. To just leave a known shooter and dive into the paint to dig when there's no immediate threat feels a bit off. That being said, as usual with these thread titles, it's a bad way to go about making your point with shoddy hyperbole, but I understand the beef with the example shown. If that was Ben Simmons or Josh Jackson rather than CP3, I wouldn't have any problem with the example.

Thanks, Chase! I have some changes locally for PHX and this situation that I'm looking at. Something else to note is player IQ and how dynamic ACE is. Each team is going to treat each player and situation differently according to their scheme. Another layer to those adjustments is how the team is going to react in a particular situation. For example:

Who is the defensive team?
Is Harden in a side, 3-out or 4-out PnR?
Playoffs, season, exhibition game?
How efficient is he playing?
etc

So many things going into this equation and that's what makes it fun.

Again, we want open lay ups and open shots occasionally. We could just match your speed and never allow back cuts or open shots if you'd like

[Thrustie]

Quote: Originally Posted by OGSPORTS

Thanks, Chase! I have some changes locally for PHX and this situation that I'm looking at. Something else to note is player IQ and how dynamic ACE is. Each team is going to treat each player and situation differently according to their scheme. Another layer to those adjustments is how the team is going to react in a particular situation. For example: Who is the defensive team? Is Harden in a side, 3-out or 4-out PnR? Playoffs, season, exhibition game? How efficient is he playing? etc So many things going into this equation and that's what makes it fun. Again, we want open lay ups and open shots occasionally. We could just match your speed and never allow back cuts or open shots if you'd like

I, for one, enjoy watching some good ball movement or a drive resulting in a blown assignment. It just feels a bit artificial when the other team just crosses the timeline and hits a good shooter in the corner who is inexplicably left wide open. I know it occasionally happens in the Association but the frequency seems a high to me.

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by OGSPORTS

Thanks, Chase! I have some changes locally for PHX and this situation that I'm looking at. Something else to note is player IQ and how dynamic ACE is. Each team is going to treat each player and situation differently according to their scheme. Another layer to those adjustments is how the team is going to react in a particular situation. For example: Who is the defensive team? Is Harden in a side, 3-out or 4-out PnR? Playoffs, season, exhibition game? How efficient is he playing? etc So many things going into this equation and that's what makes it fun. Again, we want open lay ups and open shots occasionally. We could just match your speed and never allow back cuts or open shots if you'd like

Haha, no no, for the love of god no. But yeah the walk up into a basic center pick and roll it just seems a little odd to give CP3 that much space when Harden has not turned the corner and Chandler still exists and is in good position playing the pick and roll 2 on 2. I understand that generally speaking you're going to need to bring a third guy to deal with that action because most teams can't defend a Harden-Capela pick and roll 2 on 2, but Bledsoe seems like he should have at most one foot in the paint there rather than be under the rim -- he wouldn't really be able to slide and help on Harden from there as is.

All that being said, I understand your point about multiple factors playing into the action playing out on the court and how it can be hard to decipher what is impacting what -- as it should as NBA basketball is complicated. I think the frustrations I see most often play out in examples on here have to do with these examples where they break 4 seconds into the shot clock or after someone walks the ball up the court where "real danger" does not seem to exist yet where players should be scrambling.

But yeah, I still approve of the AI wilting and melting under the pressure of a Warriors off-ball action where there is a miscommunication and someone gets beaten back door, or a drive and kick leads to that next pass being to a wide open player because an AI defender didn't take the next step to rotate across to the next matchup and on and on.