Lets Talk: Skill Gap or Broken Game?

[EarvGotti]

There’s been a clear rift in 2K20 so far between people that love the gameplay and people that hate the gameplay.

Defense seems harder, shooting seems harder, post game seems a bit harder(except for dropstep). So this led me to wonder: With less AI assistance, does it offer a skill gap or just leave the game broken?

Last year AI defense was on steroids. CPU could defend anyone on the perimeter and the automatic bumping made user on-ball defense much easier too. But now, it seems you get less bumping and the CPU gets beat easier. This puts more emphasis on the user to put together a defensive scheme that works for them. For a lot of people, its been 2-3 zone so far. I hate seeing zone in an NBA game but if you think about it…if your opponent cant shoot(skill), then its up to you to exploit that weakness until he shows you he can shoot.

This leads me into shooting. Now im still on the fence about this one. 2K seems to want to make it depend more on timing and ratings rather than openness which i dont agree with 100%. But i have been seeing way more greens now that i’ve learned my guys jumpshots to a T. Played a guy last night who sat in 2-3 zone all game and i shot 65% from 3.

Most people seem to still be struggling with shooting online, so they pack the paint. Rim runners are very annoying because it seems like they are playing in the most brainless way(holding turbo and dunking)…but we have to ask ourselves…am i making the proper adjustments to stop this or am i just depending on the AI to police this?

This is a question i am asking myself right now. I just got done with a game where the guy scored in the paint almost every trip down court either from transition or by 5 outing. I lost by like 15. Normally i would say, “you would never see a team shoot 70% FG in the real NBA”. But now without “the game” automatically stopping something and leaving it up the user to stop…does this really present a skill gap.

I'm leaning towards the side that agrees with a skill gap being present and everyone has to take time to adjust....but im not 100% sold on it yet.

Thoughts?

[AstrosAllDay85]

I personally love the game this year, it definitely feels like it takes skill to play this year which is why I think a lot of people are becoming frustrated it’s really annoying that people won’t take the time to learn how to play and instead complain and demand big patch changes..... it feels more like basketball this year to me, like what u do on the sticks matters more


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[MrWrestling3]

Mostly offline player here, I would say that while it has the foundation to be a good skill based game, there is a bit of imbalance in favor of the offense that tends to hurt the experience.

As you mentioned in your comments on shooting, it seems to be weighted more towards timing and ratings than openness.IMO this has lead to too many occurences of even above average shooters making well contested shots(and by this I mean 80%+ covered as determined by the game) at too high a rate.This is especially egregious in the paint where even average-ish seem to be able to finish through 2 and 3 taller defenders somewhat reliably.

As it relates to the paint, the distinct lack of charging calls plus an animation system that gives too much leeway to players who go straight at defenders
is not very skill based.This area of the game desparately needs a better balance between rewarding smart play and punishing out of control play on both sides of the ball.

In general the game seems to operate on some sort of philosophy that defenders should always back away and never ever make contact with a player on offense or be punished by a foul call or some sort of animation that takes them out of the play.While I do not want a return to the older style where even mediocre players can stonewall everyone on defense, I think that if you are going to allow players on offense to play with as much physicality as they currently do without being punished for it you have to allow the defense to be able to respond on a similar level without being punished for it as well.

To be clear, I'm not saying a good contest should be an automatic miss either;just that a good contest by a defender needs to be rewarded a bit more to where players have to at least think before shooting instead of relying on badges plus a fairly easy green window being able to bail them out at a reasonably consistent rate.

[Gramps91]

I'm an offline player and haven't played any online, only speaking from an offline POV. I really like the gameplay. A lot of people want to jump into playing HOF and I don't think you can really do that as soon as you get the game. I always go back to Pro at the start of every year and just start from there and increase the difficulty if it gets too easy. I don't understand these people that expect to win all the time on HOF difficulty. Even if you've mastered the game HOF SHOULD give you an exceptional challenge.

I don't think the game is "broken" at all. In terms of gameplay, I don't think 2K has ever been "broken" my only complaint, as is every year, is that MyLeague has a lot of bugs.

[The 24th Letter]

It's tough man.

Creating a skill gap while trying to accurately replicate a sport.

Mortal Kombat, one of the most balanced fighting games out there doesn't care that after an attack, a fighter should realistically be prone to a leg sweep, it all depends on the frame data/start up.

This creates a formula that's easy to understand, build and tweak around. (This is why I hate fighting game comparisons with sports games) its complete apple's and oranges.

To answer the question, they are close but still have a way to go. I for one love on ball defense this year. Since L2 is no longer the glue button, there is an element of skill to cutting guys off. The issue is that the defense doesn't truly get rewarded. The offensive player may stumble, be knocked off track, but they are given the ability to recover immediately and attack again. This is where balance comes into play. You should have an effective counter in these situations. Do that, and now the 1 on 1 game is chess. That's where skill comes in.

[BasketBalla21]

Defending the Drive:

I always like the 2ks that give more of an advantage to offense because it better emulates the sport. Offensive freedom is what makes basketball the unique sport that it is. Defense against an athletic freak or an elite scorer is not possible without a perfectly executed game plan and the game reflects that this year. It did in 2k18 too.

Giannis should scare tf out of any defender. He's a walking mismatch. Is it frustrating for him to be able to get to the rim at will? Yeah, but that's what NBA teams deal with every night. That's why they sag off, force him to shoot, play zone, bracket driving lanes, etc.

Zone Defense:

Like it or not zone defense is basketball. Man to man is the ultimate versatile defense but zone does have its uses. I never really had a problem with zone because it's easier to beat than man imo.

Guys just want to play 1-on-1 basketball all game so zones frustrate them. Passing kills zones so if they zone up it's time to play college ball. I see no problems with that. It works like it should if you counter it correctly. If you can't pass your way open against a zone then you deserve to lose.

Small rant:

Everyone should just take ego out of the equation and objectively examine their own gameplay. Compare your tactics to the real world and see how they match up. Watch videos of guys like Kobe talking about how he operates in an offense. Watch coach videos on offensive and defensive schemes. 99% of the people I see don't make the kind of adjustments an actual coach would but they still expect to win. Then they complain and patches are released.

I used to be like that too. Not too long ago even so I can understand the frustration. But it really sets the developers vision back when you have so many people complaining about actual basketball tactics that they aren't countering with the appropriate basketball adjustments.

[ChaseB]

I think there's no question 5 out is overpowered online, but ya know, I get why. There's lots of spacing, and that's the whole point is that space is hard to defend. I do think offline it's easier to defend because there's no inherent lag or button delay, but online you're also dealing with players usually with higher ratings, and in something like MyTeam every team is absurdly good on the whole, which makes it feel more unfair for the defense.

So yeah, I do think there's a skill gap, but there's also certain things that are inherently going to be more powerful this year, and that still means bigs trump smalls and space trumps everything else. I'd say that's not entirely unfair to how the real NBA works these days, but it does sort of make you have to play a certain way if you want to be truly "elite" in certain online settings.

[23]

Quote: Originally Posted by EarvGotti

There’s been a clear rift in 2K20 so far between people that love the gameplay and people that hate the gameplay. Defense seems harder, shooting seems harder, post game seems a bit harder(except for dropstep). So this led me to wonder: With less AI assistance, does it offer a skill gap or just leave the game broken? Last year AI defense was on steroids. CPU could defend anyone on the perimeter and the automatic bumping made user on-ball defense much easier too. But now, it seems you get less bumping and the CPU gets beat easier. This puts more emphasis on the user to put together a defensive scheme that works for them. For a lot of people, its been 2-3 zone so far. I hate seeing zone in an NBA game but if you think about it…if your opponent cant shoot(skill), then its up to you to exploit that weakness until he shows you he can shoot. This leads me into shooting. Now im still on the fence about this one. 2K seems to want to make it depend more on timing and ratings rather than openness which i dont agree with 100%. But i have been seeing way more greens now that i’ve learned my guys jumpshots to a T. Played a guy last night who sat in 2-3 zone all game and i shot 65% from 3. Most people seem to still be struggling with shooting online, so they pack the paint. Rim runners are very annoying because it seems like they are playing in the most brainless way(holding turbo and dunking)…but we have to ask ourselves…am i making the proper adjustments to stop this or am i just depending on the AI to police this? This is a question i am asking myself right now. I just got done with a game where the guy scored in the paint almost every trip down court either from transition or by 5 outing. I lost by like 15. Normally i would say, “you would never see a team shoot 70% FG in the real NBA”. But now without “the game” automatically stopping something and leaving it up the user to stop…does this really present a skill gap. I'm leaning towards the side that agrees with a skill gap being present and everyone has to take time to adjust....but im not 100% sold on it yet. Thoughts?

Sounds like growing pangs

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