How 2k can FIX and BALANCE shooting.

[SuperNoVa27]

I know many of us here on OS were around before the days of guaranteed buckets for green releases. Some of us may even remember the complaints that led to greens becoming guaranteed. Whichever side of the coin you were on, we are a handful of years into this system and it has undeniably introduced some imbalance to the gameplay.

Every year shooting is a topic of contention for the community and probably the dev team as well. From builds that have no business shooting being able to green, to sharps dancing behind screens all game and putting up NUMBERS on 70% or higher, even to shooting being somewhat inconsistent like the beginning of this year’s title, it’s clear that automatic greens have generated more balance issues than it initially solved.

These issues have caused a split within the community. The vocal majority of 2k gamers enjoy guaranteed greens, citing the skill gap that consistently timing your jumper entails. While the oft overlooked Sim crowd would prefer greens to go back to the way they were in the past for a more realistic experience.

The gamification of the act of jump shooting isn’t nearly as simple as other aspects of the game. When a player decides they’re going to pass the ball, they’ll pass the ball every time. It’s simple and will always have the same outcome. A players wants to dribble between his legs, they’ll do it. Another simple, repeatable action that will always have the same outcome. Things like that are easy to map to a controller and still feel good for players. Shooting is a completely different animal.

There’s a lot that goes into shooting the ball, but once a player has established their form it becomes a matter of drilling the act into muscle memory. Once a player puts up a significant amount of shots it becomes second nature. Yet no amount of drilling or practice will make a shooter automatic. Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, any player you can imagine, have and will continue to miss wide open jumpers.

The way 2k tries to emulate this with millisecond shot windows and rating gates is solid but it’s proven to be very boom or bust and balancing the game has proven to be difficult. Especially with the vocal majority being quick to consider things broken. However, after seeing the path 2k is taking with the shot stick, they’re closing in on the recipe.

With the refinement of stick shooting, 2k has a chance to introduce an actual skill gap, but still please casuals and sim heads. The most important change for this to happen is no more guaranteed makes on green release jumpshots UNLESS you have...

- Perfect Shot Timing
- Center Shot Aiming
- Ideal Shot Arc

Now this doesn’t mean button shooters should struggle or suffer. You should be able to get a perfectly timed shot every time, like the game used to be. No more arbitrarily closing “green windows.” An NBA player knows their shot, it’s second nature.

A player with good timing and smart shot selection should be able to maintain high 50s to 60% splits. WIDE Open shots with sufficient ratings should fall more often than not. BUT, you shouldn’t be able to go 5/5 or 6/6 in a half unless you perfect the stick shooting or are on a build with very high (95+) attributes. Button shooters can still explode from time to time, but they’ll need to do things that elite scorers do in real life to facilitate historic performances like getting to their favorite spots on the floor, taking shots in the flow of the game, developing a rhythm and not pressing.

If players want to the be best of the best, if they seek to truly be “comp,” then they have to become great at everything the game considers. If you want to shoot 40-50% or higher with a below average rating, you better be ready to put some time in the shot around.

Implementing this type of system will actually separate good from great while still allowing casual players to have fun shooting the ball while plainly spelling out EXACTLY how to become better at the game.

I know Mike Wang, DaCzar and others from the dev team pop up on OS, and I know that requesting something like this from them specifically is asking way, way more than a lot but please consider testing out this system with the team, reach out to 2k League players or community influences for their opinion on something like this if you think it could work.

If you read through all of this, Thanks for the time you spent reading my ramblings. Feedback is paramount so please chime in, would you like this system or am I way off base?


TL;DR - No more guaranteed green releases unless a player utilizes and excels in EVERY aspect of shot stick shooting.

[Thrustie]

I more or less agree with your sentiment. If greens can’t disappear, I’d like them to be much harder. Then they could boost the amount of non green makes and make shot quality slightly more important. That would push the game closer to real basketball, in my opinion. The current system makes great (not elite because I run into a ton of guys who can shoot over 60% from 3) timers/aimers feel like Gods and everyone else like hot garbage.


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[makenba2knotsuck]

el 2k21 no bueno shooting mechanics


i am not shock

[YungGun]

Greens wouldn't be so bad if the defense was much better in the game. There aren't enough moving screens called in the game at all which is the BIGGEST issue online. If they were to fix that, as well as defense in general, greens wouldn't be as much of a problem as it would be much easier to contest shots. Until they do, greens should be much harder to achieve, or only green releases should go in. RNG doesn't belong in a competitive setting (HUM vs HUM) at all in any game.

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[SuperNoVa27]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thrustie

I more or less agree with your sentiment. If greens can’t disappear, I’d like them to be much harder. Then they could boost the amount of non green makes and make shot quality slightly more important. That would push the game closer to real basketball, in my opinion. The current system makes great (not elite because I run into a ton of guys who can shoot over 60% from 3) timers/aimers feel like Gods and everyone else like hot garbage. Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

Yea difficulty is definitely something that needs to be addressed. I think stacking 3 area’s that have to be perfect to guarantee a bucket can make things harder.

Usually when 2k tries to adjust shooting the people with shooting builds or guys already hitting high percentage don’t see much of a decline while the rest of the community is hit harder than intended.

[BQ32]

Quote: Originally Posted by YungGun

Greens wouldn't be so bad if the defense was much better in the game. There aren't enough moving screens called in the game at all which is the BIGGEST issue online. If they were to fix that, as well as defense in general, greens wouldn't be as much of a problem as it while be much easier to contest shots. Until they do, greens should be much harder to achieve, or only green releases should go in. RNG doesn't belong in a competitive setting (HUM vs HUM) at all in any game. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I agree with this to a degree. If all they did was make the suction screens not be a thing where it pulls you from the strong side to the weak side when you are not even trying to go over or under it allowing the ballhandler a wide open look or driving lane for free would help immensely. I always top lock a shooting build forcing them away from the screen and fighting over the top if necessary. I can really clamp down players a lot of the time when they are just trying left right screen spam but then bam I will get that suction to the opposite side and the the player is just left wide open for free, drives me crazy.

However the shooting this year is much better because they stopped allowing non shooting builds to shoot lights out. You never ever see rebounding locks camping in the corner on offense, you can actually play off slashers to prevent the drives and help off defensive builds. This has made the game much more balanced and more enjoyable online. Last year you could not leave any build open and could never give help if you were playing comp. This made it basically impossible to play D.

[SuperNoVa27]

Quote: Originally Posted by YungGun

Greens wouldn't be so bad if the defense was much better in the game. There aren't enough moving screens called in the game at all which is the BIGGEST issue online. If they were to fix that, as well as defense in general, greens wouldn't be as much of a problem as it while be much easier to contest shots. Until they do, greens should be much harder to achieve, or only green releases should go in. RNG doesn't belong in a competitive setting (HUM vs HUM) at all in any game. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Defense is an entirely different can of worms and while I definitely agree it needs focus, getting open is always going to be easier than locking someone down. If screens were more realistic they’re still going to be the primary way for shooters to get clean looks and we would still be stuck watching above average players knocking down everything.

Last Year I had a pure sharp who never surpassed 80ovr consistently dropping 40 or 50 point games and this is even before they introduced the 92 & below ladder to match making, This year I have an 86 three ball and if I can get 5 relatively clean looks, I’m probably going 5/5. Even with a buff to D, players are still going to be able to knock down the hardest shot in basketball at an unrealistically high clip.

Now in terms of difficulty, I’ve played around with the shoot stick this year and it’s much less forgiving than the square button. In situations where I’m anticipating a heavy close out I sometimes default to buttons because I’m more confident I’ll green. There’s an actual technique to being a lights out shooter with the stick, albeit slight, that requires more focus than regularly timing your shot. Making players consider timing and arc in addition to aim would only add to that technique making greens as they are now much more difficult.

RNG is simply a part of basketball. Sports games shouldn’t be held to the same standard as more established competitive games like CS or LoL. I’m sure Danny Green drills the shot he bricked yesterday 95 times out of 100 in practice, but being in game with actual stakes makes the routine difficult.

It’s a make or miss sport and guaranteed greens doesn’t represent that. This is why I believe making them a thing of the past UNLESS you put the time in to learn the mechanics would be a good thing for the game. If a player wants to eliminate RNG, the tools would be there, but I know there’s a good number of players who just want Basketball.

[YungGun]

Quote: Originally Posted by SuperNoVa27

RNG is simply a part of basketball. Sports games shouldn’t be held to the same standard as more established competitive games like CS or LoL. I’m sure Danny Green drills the shot he bricked yesterday 95 times out of 100 in practice, but being in game with actual stakes makes the routine difficult. It’s a make or miss sport and guaranteed greens doesn’t represent that. This is why I believe making them a thing of the past UNLESS you put the time in to learn the mechanics would be a good thing for the game. If a player wants to eliminate RNG, the tools would be there, but I know there’s a good number of players who just want Basketball.

I want to highlight this specifically because this gets brought up a lot on this forum. I understand randomness happens in real life basketball, it's real life. 2K isn't real life, it's a video game. Shooting aside, there are many elements in this game that don't reflect real life basketball. Fouls on jumpshots, rarely any unforced turnovers, contact dunks, you name it, this game doesn't reflect real life at all and it shouldn't.

Offline, 12 minute quarters, I don't mind the RNG as much because of the amount of possessions in the game. But online, when the number of possessions are much less, randomness simply cannot be a thing.

I'll just use this as anexample, we're both playing against each other with the GSW, I come down the court and take a wide open 3 with Steph Curry that misses, you take the same shot I just missed with the same player and make it. In this instance, we both mis-timed the jumpshot release. It's okay for the algorithms to allow your shot to go in and not mine? I just don't think that's fair in a competitive setting and I would feel like I'm being cheated.



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