Auction House Recommendations

[eVizions]

I've had some time to think about the Auction House and I wanted to outline a few things that need to change. Virtual economies are nothing new, as they've been around for quite a while and have been proven to follow many of the rules that actual economies follow. First, here are the principles that you would need to strive for:

Goals:

Promote open trade - Users shouldn't be stifled by a million AH restrictions. Buying and selling is the basis for any economic model. The more it is limited or restricted, the less it grows. Let the users determine the value of each card. Let secondary markets emerge, such as resellers (buy low and sell for a profit), specialty dealers (corner the market on limited edition cards, for example) and users that train up lower-end cards to sell to people for training. Promote competition. Give people a reason to not only spend their money, but also their time on AH.

Allow and encourage free users to be part of the economy - Free users actually drive a digital economy that is funded by the spenders. You not only need both, but you need both to actively play a role. The free user is the one that only earns credits by selling what they have, but they are the principal driving force behind keeping everything going. By involving them, you now have 80% of your users involved in transactions instead of 20%, which will drive prices up (organically) and maintain the standard principles that drive the economy. Credits must come from somewhere, but let them flow through as many hands as possible.

Maintain an infusion of credits - a digital economy only works if there are credits that flow through it. Considering all of the ways in which credits can be rendered useless in this game (buying unsellable packs, buying to train, 30% tax, etc.), there is clearly a lack of credits, which can be seen by the fact that cards aren't selling very well. If nobody has (virtual) money, how can they expect to buy anything? How can they upgrade their rosters? Currently, credits that are purchased are usually used once or twice before becoming completely consumed. Allow credits to be consumed through multiple transactions instead of one or two. I've still used the same amount of credits, but I've now gotten a lot more bang for my buck.

Promote progression - Users should be rewarded for their hard work. Grinding and playing all game modes should be rewarded by consistent progression. No, you don't want a free player reaching an all Star Pro lineup in a month, but being stalled at a level without any sign of progression on the horizon is a pretty crappy situation to be in.

Reward investment - This one you've got a pretty good handle on, but it's worth emphasizing. Users who a) grind, and b) pay should be rewarded. Users who do both should be rewarded the most. Be careful how much you emphasize one over the other, however.

Promote competition - Whether it's going head-to-head in a season, out-pacing those around you in RC, or out-bidding someone for a card on AH, competition should be at the heart of everything you do.

Now, with that in mind, here are the recommendations that I would have for fixing what is clearly a broken system:

Recommendations

Lower the 30% tax - there is no possible need for taxing almost one-third of what someone sells something for. I've never seen a digital economy that had anything higher than a 15% tax, and even that is extremely high. Lowering this will promote users to buy and sell more and will also encourage resale, which will allow people to earn credits and will create a natural floor to prices. Take World B. Free, often considered the least valuable Star card (poor guy). His value may ultimately be between 2-3k, but in a true digital economy, people will make sure that he doesn't fall below that. They will begin buying him at 2k and then reselling him with a 3500 buy-it-now. More people will buy him at the lower price, ensuring that the supply begins to dwindle, which will then begin raising his value again. Having a 30% tax completely eliminates this. I would only buy him to use him, and I don't see a reason to pay 5-6k for him when I can get a million other PGs for the same thing. The lower the tax (no lower than 5%), the more activity you will see.

Remove the 20 credit posting fee - Why would you require someone to pay for a listing? Remove this and let the users post whatever they want for free. Once this is gone, you've removed the barrier for the next item...

Return season rewards to what they were - There was no reason to change the season rewards. You can make an argument that 3 Stars for winning a Star season *might* have been a little too much, but you can't adjust rewards at all tiers based on one reward. Going 4 days in between rewards is significant. It was really the only way to progress (outside of just buying your way to the top). If there's no listing fee, there's no reason to give away credits as a reward. Return the rewards to their previous states. The supply for AH needs to come from somewhere and removing over half of the rewards a) has cut this supply line in half, b) has made seasons less relevant, and c) has made tanking in the second round of playoffs the smartest play.

Reduce or remove minimums - We can see that, on certain cards, such as Stars Anthony Davis, LeBron James and Klay Thompson (SG), a true value has been established. Getting AD for 7500 credits is considered a steal. The fact that these cards can be put up and are either bid on or bought outright shows that the model is working. The supply is limited and prices reflect that. World B. Free and Henry Bibby, on the other hand, are not worth 5k credits. They are probably on the lower end of cards (due to their stats and the overwhelming amount of PGs) and would likely sell for around 3k each (my estimate). While more people would be able to buy single or pro versions of these cards, it would reduce the supply that's already out there and eventually raise the value of the card.

Reduce BIN - While I understand the need to have a buy-it-now minimum, it should scale down significantly. Many, if not most, people who search the AH are looking for that deal to snatch up that can help their lineup right now.

Reduce auction times - Allow for shorter auctions. Not only will this allow me to adjust my listings and get my card back sooner if it doesn't sell, but it also reduces the number of cards that are available at any one time. If I want to list it for 12 or 24 or even 48 hours, I like having that option, but if I want to list it for 3 or 6 (or even 1), I should have that option, too.

Allow more than 5 auctions at a time - Limiting the number of auctions that a user can have up at one time to 5 is outrageous. I had about 50 cards that I wanted to list when AH came out. Would there be a flood immediately once this restriction was lifted? Yes, but as soon as it settled down, having the ability to list 20 or more cards would allow so much more flexibility.

Keep the best cards (AS/MVP/HOF) unsellable - This one is already done, but it's worth emphasizing. This helps create another tier that users will shoot for. When you get to Star tier, you'll want to buy duplicates of what you already have and probably acquire some of the cheaper Star Pros on the market. Then, you'll want to upgrade to the better Pros. Once you've reached a point where your season lineup is heavy with Star Pros, your next objective becomes selling them to buy MVP or HOF packs. Yes, more people will have more Star Pros in their lineup, but it makes having the better Star Pros even more important. Having MVP Pros is now even more vital.

These are my suggestions. Feel free to hate them or challenge them, but most of this is built upon strong foundations of commerce. This game has (for now) a large enough community to be able to support these principles. I would recommend implementing them all now and ride it out for the rest of the year. If they work, you now have a working model to use for next year's game. If not, go back to the crappy model that's in place now. I love this game and I think it could be amazing, but with the limitations that we have right now, I'm really feeling cheated as a customer. My loyalty only goes so far and I'm beginning to reach my limits. I get the impression that a lot of other people feel the same.

[Sir Master Tim]

You have made lot of great points


Promote open trade-this is first and foremost my biggest agree. Players them selves need to be the ones who determine the value of cards. No restrictions. The economies that have thrived the longest are those that put the power in the consumer. Since the beginning of the rumor that there was going to be an AH people had started to save up their credits in hopes of progressing through the AH. Now that the dust has settled we can see that there is not nearly as much of an open market as most people are poor due to the fines/taxes of using the AH. That's not good. What we need is to slash taxes on sales by at least 15% and remove the posting fee on auctions. Its simple, if people don't have money then people going to quit.


Allow and encourage free users to be apart of the market- I myself am a free user. I also have not been as active as most up until about a month ago. But I intend to be as influential s any. Being both causes huge disadvantage to a lot of people. Most people have stack after stack of epics legends and stars. so they can just sell what they don't need and buy what they do. When your resources are slim and you have no credits and are stuck in between teirs most would quit as there is no light at the end of the tunnel. We can change that. What im offering is we get credits for every game we play. Not many but some. Im thinking around 3 for a loss and say 5 for a win. This way its not over flowing the market and it doesn't undercut the people who do pay. The users who do buy credits will still be there because chances are if they baught credits in the first place, its because they don't want to grind it out.


Promote progression-
don't take resets take so long. ive had rougly 146 board resets since I last got my epic dragic. And that's an epic. I cant imagine what star teir is like.


Return season rewards to what they were-
If im going to invest my time into 100+hr season the rewards better be worth it. Getting just one card and 65creds isn't worth it. If you don't want us getting two powerful cards then at least compensate us like we were with an equivalent of what that cards teir wold sell for in BIN. Or another option is to drop the season down from about 100games(including playoffs) down to near 60(including playoffs) which is about a 41 game regular season


Keep best cards unsellable- I do not agree with this. If a card is in the game it should be sellable. Periode. That's the point of an open market. Now the pricing can be sky high but as long as its able to be baught and sold is a win win


Thanks for posting that eVizions. It was a much needed blueprint of what the gamers want- for the developers to see and develop for the future

[ASB37]

I think the biggest issue is the ability for free users in lower tiers to get credits to use in AH.

Adding credits to seasons are great, but the amount is sort of negligible...40 credits is pretty much useless.

I'm 1600 games away from getting the 1200 credit bonus...that's a nice chunk right there. I think CD should find different ways to get credits into free users. Maybe something like a credit card that can be drafted on the boards would be cool...wouldn't even have to be much, anything would help.

[eVizions]

Quote: Originally Posted by ASB37

I think the biggest issue is the ability for free users in lower tiers to get credits to use in AH. Adding credits to seasons are great, but the amount is sort of negligible...40 credits is pretty much useless. I'm 1600 games away from getting the 1200 credit bonus...that's a nice chunk right there. I think CD should find different ways to get credits into free users. Maybe something like a credit card that can be drafted on the boards would be cool...wouldn't even have to be much, anything would help.

I think dropping the listing fee would help. Everyone gets cards, whether they are SR, UR, Epic, Legendary or Star. You should be able to turn around and sell them easily to make some money. Maybe sell 2 or 3 SR to buy a UR. This would get more people involved and would let people save up some credits. It may allow people to progress a little faster (not unreasonably), but, more importantly, it would allow everyone to build their larger decks (RttC) to a deeper level. That's the key: make people want to build their decks. My friend has a Legendary, 3 Epics, a few UR Pros and then a whole bunch of UR, SR and even Rare cards filling up his top 25. The bottom of your deck should be closer than that.

[phamtaztik]

In my opinion, the bottom line is as long as Catdaddy still making profit (i.e. Auction house is still active), there is no point for them to change anything. For example, people are more than happy to buy/sell cards below minimum, to help each other out and counter Catdaddy ripping us off. But let say someone wants to sell their LEG single for 1500, Catdaddy would much rather take 30% out of 3300 (2400+900) than 30% of 1500. Another example that I saw earlier today, someone was trying to sell a LEG pro Robert Parish for no profit, and still have no taker because the card will still cost around 2900, and all of it are tax fee going toward Catdaddy. They claimed that AH is a way for player to "earn" money, however that money still have to come somewhere, most likely from people with lesser decks spending real money to get credits, because let's be honest here, the credits earn from season reward, especially in lower tier, are not enough for anything. So all the dealing that we've been doing are actually helping them out, and they know exactly what they're doing.

My guess is that unless you're already committed to this game or have already achieved a great deck, most people would eventually reach a limit for spending money on this "companion" game ($60? could have buy NBA 2K16, $100? 150? 1000?) and would stop spending more money. That's when Catdaddy would actually make some changes as suggested above. Until then, I don't see them making any voluntary change that would hurt their profit.

With that said, I hope people reach that point soon. Just play with your current deck and grind guys!!! Why spending all that money and effort (making deals) to improve your deck and barely play it. Enjoy your current deck for a while, and maybe we will see some positive changes.

Cheers

[ASB37]

Quote: Originally Posted by phamtaztik

In my opinion, the bottom line is as long as Catdaddy still making profit (i.e. Auction house is still active), there is no point for them to change anything. For example, people are more than happy to buy/sell cards below minimum, so let say someone wants to sell their LEG single for 1500, Catdaddy would much rather take 30% out of 3300 (2400+900) than 30% of 1500. Another example that I saw earlier today, someone was trying to sell a LEG pro Robert Parish for no profit, and still have no taker because the card will still cost around 2900, and all of it are tax fee going toward Cat "earn" money, however that money still have to come somewhere, most likely from people with lesser decks spending real money to earn credits, because let's be honest here, the credits earn from season reward, especially in lower tier, are not enough for anything. My guess is that unless you're already committed to this game or have already achieved a great deck, most people would eventually reach a limit for spending money on this "companion" game ($60? could have buy NBA 2K16, $100? 150?) and would stop spending more money. That's when Catdaddy would actually make some changes as suggested above. Until then, I don't see them making any voluntary change that would hurt their profit. With that said, I hope people reach that point soon. Just play with your current deck and grind guys!!! Why spending on that money and effort (making deals) and barely play it. Enjoy your current deck for a while, and maybe we will see some positive changes. Cheers

Pretty much this. I can't believe the actual money some people drop on this game. Hundreds of dollars? It's a nice time killer and a fun addicting app but I could never drop some of the cash that gets dropped on here.

[eVizions]

Quote: Originally Posted by phamtaztik

In my opinion, the bottom line is as long as Catdaddy still making profit (i.e. Auction house is still active), there is no point for them to change anything. For example, people are more than happy to buy/sell cards below minimum, so let say someone wants to sell their LEG single for 1500, Catdaddy would much rather take 30% out of 3300 (2400+900) than 30% of 1500. Another example that I saw earlier today, someone was trying to sell a LEG pro Robert Parish for no profit, and still have no taker because the card will still cost around 2900, and all of it are tax fee going toward Cat "earn" money, however that money still have to come somewhere, most likely from people with lesser decks spending real money to earn credits, because let's be honest here, the credits earn from season reward, especially in lower tier, are not enough for anything. My guess is that unless you're already committed to this game or have already achieved a great deck, most people would eventually reach a limit for spending money on this "companion" game ($60? could have buy NBA 2K16, $100? 150?) and would stop spending more money. That's when Catdaddy would actually make some changes as suggested above. Until then, I don't see them making any voluntary change that would hurt their profit. With that said, I hope people reach that point soon. Just play with your current deck and grind guys!!! Why spending on that money and effort (making deals) and barely play it. Enjoy your current deck for a while, and maybe we will see some positive changes. Cheers

I guess the point I was trying to make was that CD is actually limiting their own sales. They could actually make more money, while providing a much better experience than what they currently do. Take FIFA's FUT, for example. They have been doing auctions for years and have 5% tax with low minimums and BINs, a higher number of listings allowed, and no listing fee. On the surface, you'd think that they're getting less than CD because the tax is 25% less. In reality, they are making money on bulk transactions. I've already bought cards that were sold 20+ times (each card has a record of how many times owners it's had). That means they earned 5% on each of those transactions. Also, because the market is so friendly to buy and sell, people do it much more often. I used to earn credits by targeting certain cards and buying them at a low price and then turning around and selling them for another price to make a profit. Nobody in this game is trying to turn a profit by buying and selling.

[richie_r1ch]

I'm probably alone in thinking the listing fee should stay. But it makes people accountable from listing every single card in their deck non stop until it sells. The market will be flooded with every single card even worse than it is now. I would much rather prefer the fee be lowered, and the listing limit upped to 10.

I'm working the auction house pretty well since it opened and can't wait till all these junk cards stop getting posted that are pushing my listings down.

Serious, someone drafts any random card, throws it on the auction house immediately as is and then gets pissed that no one is buying anything. Doesn't work that way.

all in all I'm 100% for a trade feature of some sort and cutting the 30% fee in half.