"Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

[countryboy]

Ok guys. I've spent most of the morning doing some testing by altering individual player ratings in an attempt to solve what has been the two biggest gameplay issues talked about on the forums...passing out of the post and 3pt attempts. I also made some adjustments to a personal issue of mine, and thats the limited dunk attempts I've seen throughout my playing time.

Looking through the ratings I noticed that player's 3pt and dunk ratings were extremely low for the most part. It seemed to be the exception and not the rule to have an individual player rated highly in either category.

So, I played several games this morning on All-Conference default and raised both ratings for myself and the cpu. The results are night and day between my rating changes and the default ratings.

I played American U this morning first to see if actually adjusting the 3pt rating would make a difference. To do this, I went extreme and raised their 3pt shooting for all their players to 90. The results, 28 3pt attempts by the Eagles compared to probably 8-10 at default.

During this game I also raised my dunk ratings by 30 across the board for my players and am very happy with the results. Guys are getting breakaways or clear lanes and attempting to hammer the ball down instead of lay it up. I also had Samardo dunk during a post move.

Passing out of the post seems to be the biggest and toughest issue to solve. At first, I was hoping that simply raising the passing rating for big men would help this problem, but thus far, it hasn't, although I haven't went extreme. I'm not sure this is something that can be corrected via rating adjustments, but will keep working at it.

I am going to keep tinkering around here to see what I can come up with. My goal now is to find a value to raise all player's 3pt rating so that the cpu will attempt more 3pt shots than they are now. I also, want to sim seasons to see if the rating adjustments will drastically affect simmed stats.

I also need to sim a season and check the ratings of incoming recruits, to see how they come in. My guess is that they'll need to be edited as well in these areas.

My hope is that simmed stats for games with no ratings adjustments will result in realisitic stats for 3pt field goals and that changed ratings won't change the simmed stats. Thus meaning, I can assign that value to the cpu teams as I play them and not worry about readjusting them later.

Anyways, I thought I'd let you guys know that I was doing this. If anything, maybe this could serve as the thread that people can bounce ideas off of one another and share tests and findings as they come.

Take care..
CB

[deadlyCane]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Great work CB. This will help game play a lot. I'm not about to give up on this game just yet. It's too much fun to put on the shelf. Just gotta find work arounds. I'm already editing the the player 3pt ratings starting with the BCS conferences. It'll take me a while cause I can't dedicated oodles of time like other more fortunate folks. I'm basically going through stats and assigning 3 pt ratings based off my knowledge of the player and in some cases just stats. Glad to see you're looking at incoming freshmen in dynasty. I can't wait to learn of your findings there. I haven't even booted up dynasty mode yet.

Three questions: 1) how many minutes halves did you play in your test; 2) How many overall FG attempts were made by the cpu; 3) What was the percentage made 3pt by the cpu?

[hellbent]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Interesting results, thanks CB. Maybe the 3pt / dunk fixes can be implemented by EA in a dynamic update. If the "turn and shoot" problem comes up only on certain plays, maybe they can remove those plays for the CPU? That would really save this game.

[countryboy]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Three questions: 1) how many minutes halves did you play in your test; 2) How many overall FG attempts were made by the cpu; 3) What was the percentage made 3pt by the cpu?

played 20 minute halves. The cpu shot 28 times in the only full game I played. And they hit 11 of them I believe. But again, that was at 90 for both teams.

[bluengold34_OS]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Really good idea CB..I actually thought about doing this myself, my only concern was that as each year passes I would have to do it for all the Freshmen..over and over again.

[NoDakHusker]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Very nice work, CB. Maybe if all the roster guys hear about this, they can work on the ratings. I just don't have all the time and patience to go through and edit all the teams ratings.
I don't think the pass out of the post issue is really fixable outside of a patch.
But it's good to hear that something can be done about the 3pt shooting.

[deadlyCane]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Thanks CB. One thing to keep in mind when playing on the road against a team in the top 25 places to play is that they play better at home. For instance, Duke jacked up more shots, more three point shots and made more when I played them on the road vs home. And of course there is some randomness, which means we need a decent sample size. But I think you're on the right track. I'm just praying incoming freshmen come in with reasonable 3pt ratings .

I also wonder if increasing the cpu Long Range Shooting slider will give them more incentive to take 3pt shots. I haven't tried that yet.

[Jason2112]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Good stuff Countryboy. I'm working on my re-rate project right now. If you liked my 09 re-rates, which I had good feedback from, then hopefully 10's will be just as good. We need to all decide on the right adjustment for all the player's 3 point ratings though. What do y'all think? Maybe start with upping them 5 or 7 points on every player to begin with and go from there?

[countryboy]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Good stuff Countryboy. I'm working on my re-rate project right now. If you liked my 09 re-rates, which I had good feedback from, then hopefully 10's will be just as good. We need to all decide on the right adjustment for all the player's 3 point ratings though. What do y'all think? Maybe start with upping them 5 or 7 points on every player to begin with and go from there?

I started at 10 and still don't see as much of a difference as I would like. The problem is that some guys are already rated high, so you have to take them into account. Tough to balance.

[Vechi8]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Great job CB! I am away so I can't try em out!! Please keep us posted. Any other thoughts with post play?

[Jason2112]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

I started at 10 and still don't see as much of a difference as I would like. The problem is that some guys are already rated high, so you have to take them into account. Tough to balance.

Hmmm. Not real sure what to do about this. And I'm pretty sure that adjusting the long range slider will only affect percentages, not attempts. And I sure would hate to go through 300+ teams and raise every players 3 pt value only to have EA release a patch addressing the issue. Maybe for this problem, we might have to stay on EA for a patch fix because it's gonna take forever to raise the thousands of players 3 pt ratings. I sure would like to devote that time to the actual re-rates instead.

[countryboy]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

after checking some simmed stats, I saw teams that only attempted 5 three pointers a game up to teams that shot 33 three pointers a game. Army was one of the teams that fired up over 30 three pointers, so I'm playing them right now with no rating edits to see what happens.

One hiccup that I've come across thus far though is that raising the 3pt rating means that teams neglect going inside. They start shooting jumper after jumper.

[deadlyCane]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

We need to all decide on the right adjustment for all the player's 3 point ratings though. What do y'all think? Maybe start with upping them 5 or 7 points on every player to begin with and go from there?

I don't think it's as simple as raising everyone's rating by an arbitrary number across the board. There are players that have career 3pt averages of close to 40% IRL after making around 100 attempts a season but are rated in the game in the high 50s to mid 60s. Some have just started showing their 3pt prowess this season. Joe Trapani of Boston College is a good example, in the last two seasons he averaged 119 3FGA while shooting 40% and 36% from 3pt in those two seasons. This season he is 48% from behind the arc and the game has him rated as 61 in 3PT. Wesley Johnson of Syracuse is another case. He has taken the second most 3FGA on his team and hit at a clip of 52% while the game gave him a 50 3PT rating on the default rosters. The default rosters are littered with countless examples of this.

If you simply increase every player by say 10 points, what you'll have is guys like Trapani and Johnson being increased from 50 to 60 in that category, which would still be insufficient for them to take any attempts. Meanwhile you'll have most of Duke players in the 90s and Jon Wall at 99. The result would be the teams that don't already shoot threes still won't shoot threes while teams like Duke will still shoot them only now they'll hit them with more proficiency. I personally believe it needs to be looked at on a player by player basis or we'll be introducing more problems.

[J.R. Locke]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Without editing tendencies this all seems very useless....oh wait wrong game...

Anyway I don't know what to do. I have tried everything under the sun to get teams to play less scripted but it all seems useless.

Good luck countryboy

[yokiisthename]

Re: "Testing for 3pt, passing out of post, and dunks"

Ok guys. I've spent most of the morning doing some testing by altering individual player ratings in an attempt to solve what has been the two biggest gameplay issues talked about on the forums...passing out of the post and 3pt attempts. I also made some adjustments to a personal issue of mine, and thats the limited dunk attempts I've seen throughout my playing time.

Looking through the ratings I noticed that player's 3pt and dunk ratings were extremely low for the most part. It seemed to be the exception and not the rule to have an individual player rated highly in either category.

So, I played several games this morning on All-Conference default and raised both ratings for myself and the cpu. The results are night and day between my rating changes and the default ratings.

I played American U this morning first to see if actually adjusting the 3pt rating would make a difference. To do this, I went extreme and raised their 3pt shooting for all their players to 90. The results, 28 3pt attempts by the Eagles compared to probably 8-10 at default.

During this game I also raised my dunk ratings by 30 across the board for my players and am very happy with the results. Guys are getting breakaways or clear lanes and attempting to hammer the ball down instead of lay it up. I also had Samardo dunk during a post move.

Passing out of the post seems to be the biggest and toughest issue to solve. At first, I was hoping that simply raising the passing rating for big men would help this problem, but thus far, it hasn't, although I haven't went extreme. I'm not sure this is something that can be corrected via rating adjustments, but will keep working at it.

I am going to keep tinkering around here to see what I can come up with. My goal now is to find a value to raise all player's 3pt rating so that the cpu will attempt more 3pt shots than they are now. I also, want to sim seasons to see if the rating adjustments will drastically affect simmed stats.

I also need to sim a season and check the ratings of incoming recruits, to see how they come in. My guess is that they'll need to be edited as well in these areas.

My hope is that simmed stats for games with no ratings adjustments will result in realisitic stats for 3pt field goals and that changed ratings won't change the simmed stats. Thus meaning, I can assign that value to the cpu teams as I play them and not worry about readjusting them later.

Anyways, I thought I'd let you guys know that I was doing this. If anything, maybe this could serve as the thread that people can bounce ideas off of one another and share tests and findings as they come.

Take care..
CB

CB you are PRINCE among men... thank you for doing this...