Observation on Def. Awareness

[Village Idiot]

MSU's third play of a drive that started at their own 2.

On each of the first two plays, I had my foot on the gas. First a 52 pinch blitz, then a 44 zone blitz. Both plays fail for valid reasons. With the ball now on MSU's 19, on this third play, I come out showing another 46 blitz, including bringing up the SS to the LOS. But I intend to play the pass: I'm in a Cover-4 Zone scheme that only rushes 4 and includes 4-deep protection.

They come out in a Shotgun, even set: Ace-right, 2TE-split, 2WR-split.

They run a draw to the left side. It works out to be a good call for them.

But here's my question.

At the snap of the ball, my Mike and my Sam are supposed to drop into deep/middle zone coverage - but they don't. They hesitate and watch the play (a draw, remember) develop for a moment.

Now I have AWR set at zero. What's going on here? Are they smart for playing the run? Or are they dumb for not following their assignment? Had it been PA, for example, they would have choked on it.

If awareness is tied to how closely the players play to their assignment, then in this case we'd want it to go up. Defense is about positioning; so you would think that having AWR at zero would lead to your players getting out of position at a lot, and that is confirmed in the above. Had it been PA, they would have been seriously out of position - in direct violation, so to speak, of the playcall.

It follows from this is that having AWR higher actually increases the likelihood of the CPU having success if, that is, success is defined by their getting the proper result when comparing playcalls.

In this case, the play goes for a five-yard gain. Why? Because my backers who were supposed to be in deep coverage were actually still in the box. Had they been where they were supposed to be, the play would have gained more yards.

[fistofrage]

Quote: Originally Posted by Undefeated

MSU's third play of a drive that started at their own 2. On each of the first two plays, I had my foot on the gas. First a 52 pinch blitz, then a 44 zone blitz. Both plays fail for valid reasons. With the ball now on MSU's 19, on this third play, I come out showing another 46 blitz, including bringing up the SS to the LOS. But I intend to play the pass: I'm in a Cover-4 Zone scheme that only rushes 4 and includes 4-deep protection. They come out in a Shotgun, even set: Ace-right, 2TE-split, 2WR-split. They run a draw to the left side. It works out to be a good call for them. But here's my question. At the snap of the ball, my Mike and my Sam are supposed to drop into deep/middle zone coverage - but they don't. They hesitate and watch the play (a draw, remember) develop for a moment. Now I have AWR set at zero. What's going on here? Are they smart for playing the run? Or are they dumb for not following their assignment? Had it been PA, for example, they would have choked on it. If awareness is tied to how closely the players play to their assignment, then in this case we'd want it to go up. Defense is about positioning; so you would think that having AWR at zero would lead to your players getting out of position at a lot, and that is confirmed in the above. Had it been PA, they would have been seriously out of position - in direct violation, so to speak, of the playcall. It follows from this is that having AWR higher actually increases the likelihood of the CPU having success if, that is, success is defined by their getting the proper result when comparing playcalls. In this case, the play goes for a five-yard gain. Why? Because my backers who were supposed to be in deep coverage were actually still in the box. Had they been where they were supposed to be, the play would have gained more yards.

Here is my observation with awareness. It is their reaction time to the play. For example, run a toss sweep right with your HB. With Awareness at 100, the left side cb will peel off their route and run towards the ball almost immediately. Remember that the WR is running a fly pattern to pull the defender deep. They will also turn and run towards a ball in the air that they otherwise wouldn't be covering. Now set the awareness low. The defenders should go to their assigned spot regardless of where the ball is. This is why when you have your awareness set too low, you can still get too many picks because the defenders will sit in their soft zone "centerfield" instead of attacking the player that the ball is thrown to. A bad throw ends up going right to them. What you need is a good mix.

My hypothesis is that you didn't have the play called that you thought you did. Not trying to be a smart A$$ here. Because anytime I have my awareness set at low, the players go to their zone, and don't track the ball very quickly. So it seems that in the scenario you described with awareness at 0, the defenders should have run to their spot and then attacked the ball carrier when he crossed the line of scrimmage. I think awareness effects how long they stay in their spot before reacting to the ball, and has nothing to do with getting to their assignment.

[starboy7]

i disagree. i too have observed this. particularly in zone plays. they just don't follow their assignments, sometimes. it forces you to play run/pass commit near every down(which doesn't always work for me). i don't mind a busted play or misread hear and there. the thing is i've had zone plays go overly wrong with my awareness down really low. multiple players not following their assignments.

[Village Idiot]

Quote: Originally Posted by fistofrage

My hypothesis is that you didn't have the play called that you thought you did.

I agree, that seems to be the only thing that makes sense - but it's impossible. I was in the zone. It was the third play on a drive that started at their 2; I'm all over that - no way in hell am doing something so stupid as calling the wrong play or hitting the wrong button in this spot. And not only that, but I went over the replay several times as well. If was a simple case of it being a different play, I think I would have noticed, ya know?

And that's all only to say: I agree with you! Everything you said about how AWR works I agree with. That's why it's a question in the first place. If what you contend is correct, that high AWR causes players to, say, play the ball more effectively, then that would mean my guys in the above play played the play perfectly. So with AWR at zero, they're playing the play perfectly?

If it's as simple as that, then I would argue the AWR slider is yet another without enough effect. In fact, it's just now occurring to me, what we really need is a slider that determines a certain intuitive tendency: with it maxed, players play to their assignments without fail; with it zeroed, players play a more free-roam/intuitive style.

In this way, messing with the "awareness" slider would be less about getting it "correct" in any objective sense, but rather would be an exercise in what sort of team you want to field. It should be clear that playing a more free-roam defensive style, for example, would have its advantages and disadvantages. And in a sense that style of play is "dumber": your players aren't exactly doing what they're told. But playing looser implies more players getting out of position - to make a big play. And so again on the other side, you have playing "by the book" defense: it's stronger in an empirical sense - it's more rigid, it's colder - but what it gains in structure and automation, it loses back in intuition.

Edit: In full-on wishlist mode, I'd even suggest tying into this slider a sort of "attitude" displayed by your players. Looser teams display a more arrogant, cocky flair on the field; tighter teams are more classy and professional, so to speak.

That's a slider I'd like to see.

Quote: Originally Posted by starboy7

the thing is i've had zone plays go overly wrong with my awareness down really low. multiple players not following their assignments.

Right, so back to that. Is it not the case that putting AWR higher - if only in some cases - would make the CPU offense more challenging?

I mean that play above really is the perfect example. We're talking about a draw vs. a deep-protect pass defense. It was literally the perfect playcall from the CPU, but with AWR at zero, having two players terribly out of position led to them getting a modest 5 yards.

The thing is, I don't know how this can ever be avoided if it's true that having AWR higher leads to players breaking out of assignment faster. I mean it's like I said above, if I have no control over how accurately my players play their assignments, as a defensive coordinator especially, then what use is the AWR slider? I seem to be in the dark as to how they're going to perform according to playcall no matter if it's high or low.