Slider Testing Impressions and Results

[adembroski]

I'm doing some slider testing to get a feel for what everything does. It's been years since I got heavily involved in slider development, mostly because so many of them were ineffective or because I didn't like the game enough to give much of a damn where they were set. Playmaker has produced some great stuff the last couple of years, but I miss my own sets, so I'm going to work on a set this year.

I always start out by getting a firm impression of what they do, but I figured I should pass this information on this time. I'll update this post from time to time, and I hope others will add their insight below.

So, I've done a few hours worth of testing so far and here's what I've started thinking about.

* Most people have it right: Speed: Normal and Threshold: 25 or there about is most realistic. With these settings, 99 SPD/99 ACC produces a 4.2 40, and a 40 SPD/40 ACC produces 6.0. That's about where it should be.

* Bias should be toward bringing sliders down whenever possible. Sliders pushed up seems to dilute the ratings, making great players stand out less. That would be acceptable in Madden, not NCAA. I'm pretty sure having everything at 50 leaves the ratings alone, but as you raise it, more and more players hit the same effectiveness as having a 99 in a given rating, and so players below them are pushed closer to them. If a player has a 99 in a given attribute, he gains nothing from the slider adjustment, and everyone beneath him gets better. We want to avoid pushing sliders up whenever possible.

* Some sliders do have counterparts on the other side of the ball, but these are not redundant. They effect the play in different ways. For example, lowering Rush Defense will make the defensive less able to get off blocks and in pursuit, but if you want a bigger push from the offensive front, you have to raise Run Blocking.

* Most sliders seem to simply add a bonus to relevant ability scores when raised.

* Pass blocking has an affect on behavior of offensive linemen, but I need further testing to verify this. This is important because the key to getting pass blocking right is to perfectly combine the Pass Rush slider with the Pass Blocking slider. Great pass rushers need to be able to consistently beat poor offensive linemen, but the linemen need to be intelligent enough to handle the blitz.

* Running Back Ability should stay as close to 50 as possible. It effects speed and acceleration, and I prefer to keep the ratings meaningful. Presumably, it also effects ball carrier vision and all of the special move skills, so it will likely have to be chan* ged.

* Tackling seems to affect both avoiding broken tackles and hit power. Considering the current balance of the game, this is OK, we can lower this to make RBs more effective and have a nice side effect in fewer huge hits.

* Pass coverage should be based on Man to Man primarily. The zone problems are going to have to be tuned/patched, as they're primarily an issue with zone defenders dropping too far back. That said, getting the pass rush right will help a ton.

* Run blocking from Pro Style, Multiple, and One Back schemes seems to be better than out of the spread or option. I believe it can be balanced, however, and a slider developer will need to keep in mind the different styles. However, no matter what we do, Spread and Option running games are going to be more boom or bust compared to the others (I'm not sure this is such a bad thing though).

* Need to find out if Pass Blocking or Run Blocking effects Draw plays. if anyone has insight, it would be greatly appreciated.

[iAM-IncReDiBLe-]

What setting are you doing your testings on? I'm trying to find a slider set on heisman that will give me the ultimate challenge against god team while still being realistic.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by kng23rich

What setting are you doing your testings on? I'm trying to find a slider set on heisman that will give me the ultimate challenge against god team while still being realistic.

By nature, Heisman is not realistic. Heisman is for challenge, not realism. I'm testing for All American, though PM has me thinking varsity might actually be the way to go.

Challenge can be created through sliders at any level but rookie... but a good slider set gives you a tactical challenge... heisman just cheats you.

[joejccva71]

Adem not sure if you play CPU vs CPU games or not but we try to get as realistic as possible since we don't control players at all in this type of mode and let the ratings speak for themselves.

We're currently testing Varsity and All-American with everything at default EXCEPT we lower tackling to 25 instead of 50. We're producing realistic stats/games, but now we're trying to fix the CPU AI running game.

Some folks have tried different things and are currently testing different things. We have 2 CPU vs CPU threads going atm. Right now the debate is which game speed and player speed threshhold to have it set at.

I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with as far as your tests go, and see if maybe we can use yours for our CPU vs CPU Dynasties.

[BleacherCreature]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

* Most people have it right: Speed: Normal and Threshold: 25 or there about is most realistic. With these settings, 99 SPD/99 ACC produces a 4.2 40, and a 40 SPD/40 ACC produces 6.0. That's about where it should be.

So if we wanted similar results while playing on the slow speed would you say a threshold of around 40-50 would do that?
Raise the threshold to compensate for the lower game speed?
I, for one, like the slower game speed. Allows me to see what's happening on the field a little better in regards to my blockers and my receivers being open or not.

[Yukon46]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

So, I've done a few hours worth of testing so far and here's what I've started thinking about. * Most people have it right: Speed: Normal and Threshold: 25 or there about is most realistic. With these settings, 99 SPD/99 ACC produces a 4.2 40, and a 40 SPD/40 ACC produces 6.0. That's about where it should be. * Bias should be toward bringing sliders down whenever possible. Sliders pushed up seems to dilute the ratings, making great players stand out less. That would be acceptable in Madden, not NCAA. I'm pretty sure having everything at 50 leaves the ratings alone, but as you raise it, more and more players hit the same effectiveness as having a 99 in a given rating, and so players below them are pushed closer to them. If a player has a 99 in a given attribute, he gains nothing from the slider adjustment, and everyone beneath him gets better. We want to avoid pushing sliders up whenever possible.

Those are the two BIG points that I am going to comment on...

*On the Threshold... I agree with your description, and how it would correspond with EA's slider description.... But this is all key to having it set on Normal Speed, because when on SLOW (which alot of people are liking) it all feels a little different, almost like the threshold slider doesnt really do anything, it doesnt feel any different on 25 or 75 when playing on Slow....maybe the key there is slow just nerfs everything...?

*Slider sets... I have tried alot of different 'posted' slider sets...and honestly they are all over the place. One guy will have 10 for Hum QB ACC, next guy will have 35....and so on. I have a set, and mostly I made them by using the exact thing you spoke of in your post.
Start by using Varsity then not raising any slider over 50, and work them down from there.... and most of the downs will be from the Hum sliders.
Varsity setting is the key in this formula....easier to down grade Human sliders, than tweaking up the CPU in any level.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by BleacherCreature

So if we wanted similar results while playing on the slow speed would you say a threshold of around 40-50 would do that? Raise the threshold to compensate for the lower game speed? I, for one, like the slower game speed. Allows me to see what's happening on the field a little better in regards to my blockers and my receivers being open or not.

No, the two options are independent of one another and are proportionate. Lowering the speed slider will retain the same difference in speed, so if you drop to slow, leave threshold where you have it.

[claystone]

Guys, I've been noticing this about HB with Higher ACC than AGI. It seems when a HB has a higher rating in ACC over AGI the HB runs better, without those stupid cuts we all hate. Don't get me wrong it's still there, but not that much.

I've been seeing it in a couple of games, and i would look at the HB attributes to see if it holds true. Guys, please look into your games and let me know what you're seeing. Remember their ACC attribute must be higher than the AGI attribute for the runner to run better.