The botching of "next gen"....

[ODogg]

i know people use this board to vent but it's really not going to change anything IMO. i'm just curious for those of you who have written well thought out, very, very, very long posts about things you feel about EA's games if you have sent those to EA Sports in either snail mail or email format and if so, have you gotten any replies?

no offense to OS but I seriously doubt that any NCAA or Madden programmers actually read here and take anything away from all of these rants.

[nine0bison]

Quote: Originally Posted by dagger55

Sports games do not have the luxury that other games have. These games really cant be delayed. They must be released on a yearly basis, and at some point, the developer has to make the call that a certain feature just wont have time to make it into this years game. I am a computer programmer, so I'm not really mad about anything annouced by EA today. Creating software does take time. People say "Just put more people on the project!" That just doesnt work in software delvelopment. At some point, it becomes counterproductive to have to many people working on the project because designers have to know whats going in their code, and when you get to many people working on it, they spend more time trying to figure out what some other guy wrote. Its not like EA is sitting back saying "Oh they wont mind he dont have this. We have time to do it, but we just dont want to." Cut them a little slack.

I'm sorry but i'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. I understand that the developer has to make the call on what makes it and what doesn't but come on! How do you start making next gen sports games behind the curve of current console games. No, I'm not going to cut EA some slack because they pull this crap every year. I don't mean to jump on your case but nobody wants to hear WHY a certain game didn't live up to par...they want a better PRODUCT. That's why these programmers are paid the big bucks. We need to stop making excuses for these guys! I will gladly wait an extra year for these guys to get the game RIGHT than accept a $HITTY version released on time.

[dagger55]

Quote: Originally Posted by nine0bison

I'm sorry but i'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. I understand that the developer has to make the call on what makes it and what doesn't but come on! How do you start making next gen sports games behind the curve of current console games. No, I'm not going to cut EA some slack because they pull this crap every year. I don't mean to jump on your case but nobody wants to hear WHY a certain game didn't live up to par...they want a better PRODUCT. That's why these programmers are paid the big bucks. We need to stop making excuses for these guys! I will gladly wait an extra year for these guys to get the game RIGHT than accept a $HITTY version released on time.

because you are having to reprogram 6 years of hard work, in 8 months.

There was a question in IGN mailbag the other day asking why so many 360 games appeared to be ports, which it seems you are asking NCAA to be.

Here was his response:

Quote:

Yes, I have answered this before, so I'll keep this about 1 million times shorter than your stoned Golem-influenced ramble. The first wave of Xbox 360 games have come and gone. A few companies, namely Ubisoft with Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, and Bethesda with The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, have been able to capture some really new elements that push the games into the next generation. And by that I mean give players new experiences and provide never seen before graphics. Everyone else was either rushing their games, or rushing their games and getting to grips with the new Xbox 360 triple core processors. It's hard to get to grips with, but each generation pretty much starts developers off at square one. They might be talented but they still need to start from scratch with a new system. PLUS, now they have to get used to programming for three processors instead of one, meet all of Microsoft's technical requirements, of which there are more now than on Xbox, and make sure everything is on HD. Sounds simple, right? Not really. So, yeah. There have been very few changes taken thus far, and nothing besides those two games have really stuck out. I guess the best thing I can say to you right now is watch what happens this fall. There will be a whole lot of new content, innovative elements, and great new games come this fall. Keep your eyes peeled. The extra time will mean a lot to these developers and the games will show it.

You cant have it both ways people. Do you want a port? Or do you want them to attempt to redesign the series here in the next gen. Again, no EA fanboy here, just trying to make you aware of what goes on in software development.

[Cebby]

Quote: Originally Posted by nine0bison

I'm sorry but i'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. I understand that the developer has to make the call on what makes it and what doesn't but come on! How do you start making next gen sports games behind the curve of current console games. No, I'm not going to cut EA some slack because they pull this crap every year. I don't mean to jump on your case but nobody wants to hear WHY a certain game didn't live up to par...they want a better PRODUCT. That's why these programmers are paid the big bucks. We need to stop making excuses for these guys! I will gladly wait an extra year for these guys to get the game RIGHT than accept a $HITTY version released on time.

YOU HAVE TO MAKE A COMPLETELY NEW ENGINE. I imagine that takes a lot of work espcially when you've never worked with the hardware before, and you can't add in features if it doesn't exist. It's not just EA. Look at SEGA. It took them 4.5 extra months to PORT a game. EA is making a new game. You have no idea what it takes to make a game and neither do I. The differance is I'll take the word of the few programmers I've met while you think they're all slackers.

[Ram209]

Quote: Originally Posted by bangpow

Okay, I know you're playing devil's advocate here, but I started doing research for an article for my site a little bit ago about how the first versions of both Madden and NCAA were reviewed for the PS2 and let me tell you, it's quite a contrast on what has been said about the next gen games of this year. These are all from IGN's website and these are what was said in their reviews: Madden 2001 (PS2)- Score 9 out of 10 "it's the best football game that's ever been released. Madden is a must-own title for sports fans." "And the thing that PlayStation 2 owners are getting is what is arguably the very best that this cherished series has ever seen, as it is essentially a graphically enhanced version of the critically acclaimed PlayStation release with some other nice little touches" "The Madden series has pretty much been the only one that has really factored in momentum and it has been done better here on PS2 than ever before in the series." "This series is the granddaddy of virtual football and for all intents and purposes, this version of the game is the finest of the entire bunch." Now on to NCAA 2002 (The first version released on PS2)- Score 9 out of 10 "Get ready to engulf yourself in what is simply one of the best college football games ever made." "Well, that day has finally come and the long wait has been completely worth it, as EA has managed to construct a game in the form of NCAA Football 2002 that is arguably the best college football videogame that has ever graced a console. While based partly on the Madden NFL 2001 engine, it features a large number of improvements in various aspects of the game and has been loaded with practically every single imaginable feature that a diehard sports fanatic would expect to see in a videogame." "While it's completely debatable as to whether or not Madden NFL 2001 is a better or worse playing football game than NFL2K1, there would be no point in arguing which game had the most bells and whistles as Madden was the clear champion in this arena. That said, EA Sports has been able to top what they did in last year's Madden with this incarnation of NCAA Football 2002. Not only does the game have the common Exhibition and Season play modes, both of which allow you to play as any of the currently available teams, but there's a nice Practice mode that gives users a chance to get a good feel of the playbooks and an insanely deep Dynasty Mode. " "My personal opinion is that this is the best college football game ever made and has more replay value than you could ever hope for in a $50 purchase." Now, both of those games have gotten a whopping 9 out of 10 out of the gate and they were the very first versions on the "next gen" system. Not only that, but they were feature rich and we didn't have to compromise a lot of the features that we liked about the current gen games at the time. Heck, Madden even beat NFL 2K1 in the "bells in whistles" department that year, too. I don't know, I am really not wanting to hear the excuses why things that we are used to and expecting are not in the game. Heck, what is the deal with the online leagues this year? I see they failed to mention that thus far. They could be in there, but I would think they would mention that one from the beginning since everyone and their mother's have been asking for it for the last couple year. On the other hand, maybe we're jumping the gun a bit here? I mean, maybe during E3, they release more features of the game and they improved the gameplay a whole heckuva lot. At least I sure hope so.

I disagree with alot of what you say but this is the EXACT same thing I was thinking, "When madden and NCAA came out for PS2 they BLEW AWAY the ps1 versions." I remember watching videos of madden and the first time playing it and thinking wow it cant get any better. But Now it seems like they are going backwards . I mean come on this years Madden had it to were your DB would go into motion with the rec NO MATTER what D you called. Honestly thats like Sega Gennises crap! I could not believe that was in there. I dont care how new this technology is there is NO WAY they cant figure that out. It really is a joke. I fear this years Madden and NCAA will be no different. BUt you can bet EA will the the Hedges around Georgia field to a tee. Sad very sad

[bangpow]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ram209

I disagree with alot of what you say but this is the EXACT same thing I was thinking,

Um, thanks?

[poster]

I sure as heck don't want any ports. Next gen has to be different. Playing ports, I am seeing a slightly upgraded version of the XBOX. I would have kept my XBOX if I wanted that. I hope the 360 game is awesome. We'll find out.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by dagger55

You cant have it both ways people. Do you want a port? Or do you want them to attempt to redesign the series here in the next gen. Again, no EA fanboy here, just trying to make you aware of what goes on in software development.

I agree with you there. But that's where EA's still at fault though - their lack of pushing the technology available in the current gen is why some aren't willing to give EA a long leash on this one. If MVP were coming to next gen, would people complain that it needs a redesigned engine? I'd think not. People can complain about the supposed ports on the 360 - and I can only speak to the two I own - NBA2K6 is easily the best console basketball game ever imo. But the devs pushed the genre forward significantly in the current gen of hardware, so to me you shouldn't expect them to have to bury it all and start from scratch. But something like Tomb Raider - yeah, there isn't that much to distinguish it from the current environment game so it's likely not worth the $60 ($60 is too pricey for games anyway).

I don't think anyone expects EA to reinvent the wheel. Again, I don't think it's too much to expect innovations we saw in current gen football games years ago to somehow make it into NCAA or Madden on the 360. It's almost as if they've totally discounted what anyone else has done.