Possible solution to the QB Scrambling Cheeser

[ODogg]

yes true (all of the above). the best weapon to stop scrambling qb's is to sometimes just manually do it yourself with a speedy lb or db (that is assigned to blitzing if you can't spy the db you need).

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by stabmasterb

actually you can spy the run with almost any player on the field...

I haven't seen any defenses with DB spies, but maybe I overlooked that.

And you still don't have the the options and AI necessary to pull off what a real life team would do. For example, I haven't seen a defense were you can instruct the entire DL not to rush... to hover around the LOS and watch the QB. But often, that's what teams will do.

Another example. When a defense is expecting an option play, they assign defenders to QBs & RBs. A LB, DE or safety may be responsible for the QB, a LB, DE or safety for the TB, another LB for the FB, ect. And the assignments are determined by which way the option goes. That's also not in the game. The closest you can get is playing a QB spying, man defense. However, you'd have a OLB covering a TB which does you no good if the option goes away from that OLB. And the spy won't attack the QB.

In addition, the spy plays don't work like they should on pass plays. The AI of spying LBs & DL is pretty bad.

Quote: Originally Posted by stabmasterb

now, if you're playing the likes of vince young, your defense better pack a lunch because its gonna be a long day at the office. i mean texas averaged 50.2 points a game IN REAL LIFE. in response to your observation "what some teams would do to stop a scrambling QB are not available in the game.", i say the tools are there but some guys/offenses blow up defensive game plans on a weekly basis.

I'll agree to disagree. There are not nearly enough options on defense. Yes, there are tools there, but not enough. And some of the tools don't unfold like they do in real life. It's one thing for defenders to be in position and get beat. But often, in NCAA, it's impossible to even get your players in the correct position.

And spying manually is not an option... at least not for me. Spying manually takes players out of position. That's not how spying works. You don't assign a zone/man to a player and then have him abandon that zone/man. You assing him to spy and have others play the zone/man he would have played.

[Juggernaut XX]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I'm not going to comment much, but two ways they can fix the QB Scramble cheeser is 1) implement a real pocket; and 2) work on the QB accuracy; and 3) make the QB take real steps instead of flash movements. QB gets outside way too easy because he has no pocket that surrounds him and forces him to take the underneath lanes and run into the linebackers. The accuracy issue is important because there are two types of scramble cheesers, those who focus on getting their QB up the field and those who focus on getting their QB as far away from the D as possible and heaving deep passes. For the latter cheeser, as soon as he snaps the ball he takes control of the QB and sprints backwards about 20 yds away from the D and heaves complete. Finally, make the QB take real steps. This is what they were getting at in the NBA Live 07 Next Gen demo. If the QB is taking real drop steps even with you controlling him, there is no way he can get away so quickly and heave those deep passes.

Good post.

[Juggernaut XX]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

I understand why you want this but its a lousy idea. Great scrambling QBs can be virtually unstoppable. Vince Young destroyed Michigan and was a major force in the NC. Adding a hidden rating to hurt a player's ability to scramble beyond normal fatigue is more of a cheese factor than the cheese itself. Its like a player going for it on 4th down. Should the AI automatically change to make it more difficult to complete a 4th down pass, especially if its from your own end? Absolutely not. People hate seeing that crap but you shouldn't artificially try to stop it. What the programmers need to do is make the game more realistic which eliminates cheese. Making the game less realistic so that two wrongs make a right would be taking the game in the wrong direction. In real life if a QB scrambles a ton and takes a bunch of hits or you go for it on 4th down a lot, you will get burned which is why coaches don't do that. Adding a game long fatigue that is a bit separate from short term fatigue would be good. Big hits on a QB would wear him down and possible lead to fumbles/injuries rather than an arbitrary number of rushes (what if he slides or ducks out of bounds).

You are correct (IMO). Realistic fatigue and realistic collision results would have a great impact if programmed correctly. A 185- pound QB should not be able to take multiple big hits from 215+ LB's, or scramble multiple times, without some adverse effect. On the other hand, if you do not adjust your defense accordingly, and account for the scrambling QB, you should pay the price. Most standard defensive schemes do not account for the scrambling QB, that is why they are so difficult to stop. You actually have to formulate a gameplan to account for them (in real life).

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I haven't seen any defenses with DB spies, but maybe I overlooked that.

You didn't, this is a new feature of 2007.

[Juggernaut XX]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I haven't seen any defenses with DB spies, but maybe I overlooked that. And you still don't have the the options and AI necessary to pull off what a real life team would do. For example, I haven't seen a defense were you can instruct the entire DL not to rush... to hover around the LOS and watch the QB. But often, that's what teams will do. Another example. When a defense is expecting an option play, they assign defenders to QBs & RBs. A LB, DE or safety may be responsible for the QB, a LB, DE or safety for the TB, another LB for the FB, ect. And the assignments are determined by which way the option goes. That's also not in the game. The closest you can get is playing a QB spying, man defense. However, you'd have a OLB covering a TB which does you no good if the option goes away from that OLB. And the spy won't attack the QB. In addition, the spy plays don't work like they should on pass plays. The AI of spying LBs & DL is pretty bad. I'll agree to disagree. There are not nearly enough options on defense. Yes, there are tools there, but not enough. And some of the tools don't unfold like they do in real life. It's one thing for defenders to be in position and get beat. But often, in NCAA, it's impossible to even get your players in the correct position. And spying manually is not an option... at least not for me. Spying manually takes players out of position. That's not how spying works. You don't assign a zone/man to a player and then have him abandon that zone/man. You assing him to spy and have others play the zone/man he would have played.

Yep.. NCAA 06 simply did not have good AI or plays (or adjustments) to adequately account for the scrambling QB. If NCAA 07 plays like Madden 06, in terms of accounting for scrambling QB's (QB contain defense), it should be a solid game. But, cheesers will always find something else to exploit--lol.

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

And spying manually is not an option... at least not for me. Spying manually takes players out of position. That's not how spying works. You don't assign a zone/man to a player and then have him abandon that zone/man. You assing him to spy and have others play the zone/man he would have played.

It is an option. Just have whatever player you want to spy blitz, then take control of him and instead of blitzing spy/shadow the QB and go after him if necessary at the correct angle. I agree it blows you gotta do it yourself but it's not a no-option either.

[stabmasterb]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

You didn't, this is a new feature of 2007.

check again there's a defense i think in the 5-2 (i could be wrong on the formation) where the safety spies, with the flip feature you can choose which safety to spy with, very disruptive to a scrambler. i believe there is also a safety spy in either the dime or the nickle.

don't forget either, the spies are spying the ball not really the qb, so if there's a handoff you have your spies really focusing on stopping the run.good way to stop a solid ground game...