Will EA EVER

The challenge is there if you put it there. I love getting deep into the legacy/dynasty modes and a great example of a game that doesn't get really easy is CH2K8. I'm in season 3 right now and I have a very good team and I'm 1-1 and unless I play well, the CPU will beat me if they're on their A game.

The thing about football games is that it only takes ONE PLAY to change the entire outcome of the game. In basketball there is much more room for error/bugs. When I throw a pass in the 4th quarter and it clearly is going to my wide receiver but warps back into the hands of the CPU...that KILLS A GAME! That hour I just spent playing the game is ruined because of a flaw in the game.

I do welcome the addition of the online dynasty because I think that will be a great feature.

Still I'm with you that we need AI that doesn't get stale! We want a football game to simulate the real life experience, people who want an arcade type of game can go get Blitz.

It seems they are catering much more to the Blitz crowd because they must make up the majority of the gaming population. Hundreds of thousands of people buy the games and I'm guessing tens of thousands go on internet forums to talk about them.

I will say this forum really does exploit bugs/glitches/problems you would sometimes not even notice unless you were here. With that said the opposite is true as well, you find out some really good stuff here!

OP I feel you

[Moostache]

Marketing 101

Develop and promote your product to the most easily pliable demographic to ensure repeat business - especially if you are locked into annual release dates.

The only pertinent question is "are you part of that demographic or not?"

Judging by your discontent, the answer is an obvious "NO!".

Who IS that demographic? The guys who want to play a "football" game where everyone throws for 300 yards and 4 TDs EVERY game, ALL star WRs average 100 yds and 2 TDs a game, all star HB get 125 yards and 2 TDs a game and "defense" is a dirty word for that time you have spend between calling your next offensive TD.

The things that make football realistic also make it "boring" to that A.D.D. demographic - things like strategy, field position play, establishing the run to wear down a defense or to shorten the game against an explosive offense - these things make cameo appearances in the game all the time - but it requires discipline on the part of BOTH players in head-to-head or online games to actually utilze them. Its been that way for years - otherwise, you get to play a game online against the assclown who will quit in the first quarter after throwing their 4th INT or getting stopped on 4th down and 20 AGAIN...or you get to play with the guys who have perfected their style of repetitive use of the same 4 plays to the point that no matter what you do, the game is going to be a 56-49 type score-fest.

Offline, there will NEVER be a competent AI that human players can't adjust to and dominate. Simple repetition alone ensures that you as a human can out think the CPU within a few games...while YOU can adapt, the game code cannot...the only thing that COULD make this better would a year-round support from EA to PATCH the AI as holes and exploits and deficiencies become obvious...problem is that costs money that would have to come out of profits....after all, once you have BOUGHT the game, you are worthless to EA unless they can convince you to re-buy the tweaked / patched / fixed "new" version the following year...

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Moostache

Offline, there will NEVER be a competent AI that human players can't adjust to and dominate. Simple repetition alone ensures that you as a human can out think the CPU within a few games...while YOU can adapt, the game code cannot...the only thing that COULD make this better would a year-round support from EA to PATCH the AI as holes and exploits and deficiencies become obvious...problem is that costs money that would have to come out of profits....after all, once you have BOUGHT the game, you are worthless to EA unless they can convince you to re-buy the tweaked / patched / fixed "new" version the following year...

this I disagree with. Slider adjustments will always allow you to maintain a challenge in the game. No matter how good you get, you can always stack the deck in the cpu favor. Now with that being said, stacking the deck in the cpu favor could lead to unrealistic stats and some other potential problems.

The thing is, I have yet to dominate the cpu in any football game that I have played. Yes, during my franchise/dynasty years, I have had good runs, but I have also had horrific seasons. Personnel changes to both my team and every other team allow for the game to remain balanced. And if I can find a way to exploit the cpu, I can always "tune" the game via sliders to try and eliminate that option. If its a cheat, then I personally do not use it.

Again, maybe I just stink at the game or whatnot, but I think the developers have done a decent job in keeping the AI challenging by having the AI adapt to your play calls and your tendacies.

[umd]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

this I disagree with. Slider adjustments will always allow you to maintain a challenge in the game.

If the sliders work well. They did not last year. INT and Knockdown sliders were busted.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by umd

If the sliders work well. They did not last year. INT and Knockdown sliders were busted.

Yes the sliders have to work, but even with that the other factors that I pointed out still in my opinion allow the game to remain challenging.

[Ram209]

Quote: Originally Posted by Moostache

Marketing 101 Develop and promote your product to the most easily pliable demographic to ensure repeat business - especially if you are locked into annual release dates. The only pertinent question is "are you part of that demographic or not?" Judging by your discontent, the answer is an obvious "NO!". Who IS that demographic? The guys who want to play a "football" game where everyone throws for 300 yards and 4 TDs EVERY game, ALL star WRs average 100 yds and 2 TDs a game, all star HB get 125 yards and 2 TDs a game and "defense" is a dirty word for that time you have spend between calling your next offensive TD. The things that make football realistic also make it "boring" to that A.D.D. demographic - things like strategy, field position play, establishing the run to wear down a defense or to shorten the game against an explosive offense - these things make cameo appearances in the game all the time - but it requires discipline on the part of BOTH players in head-to-head or online games to actually utilze them. Its been that way for years - otherwise, you get to play a game online against the assclown who will quit in the first quarter after throwing their 4th INT or getting stopped on 4th down and 20 AGAIN...or you get to play with the guys who have perfected their style of repetitive use of the same 4 plays to the point that no matter what you do, the game is going to be a 56-49 type score-fest. Offline, there will NEVER be a competent AI that human players can't adjust to and dominate. Simple repetition alone ensures that you as a human can out think the CPU within a few games...while YOU can adapt, the game code cannot...the only thing that COULD make this better would a year-round support from EA to PATCH the AI as holes and exploits and deficiencies become obvious...problem is that costs money that would have to come out of profits....after all, once you have BOUGHT the game, you are worthless to EA unless they can convince you to re-buy the tweaked / patched / fixed "new" version the following year...

Very well said

[jdrhammer]

As far as gameplay goes, I can't get over the lack of OL-DL interaction. I'm sick of the pot-bellied DE with no stride, running upright, sprinting 5 yds to the sideline only to curl around into the backfield untouched. There is no combat in the trenches. How simple would it be to have a DLineman make a move, either inside or outside, and the OL pushing the defender away from the play knocking him off-balance. This happens a good bit. Sometimes the OL gets beat, but the ratings mean jack. I don't understand how they can leave out the battle in the trenches. It's unacceptable how little interaction the OL and DL have. Too many times, the OL just moves around without attempting to block the man they're lined up against.

[AuburnAlumni]

Quote: Originally Posted by stewaat

The challenge is there if you put it there. I love getting deep into the legacy/dynasty modes and a great example of a game that doesn't get really easy is CH2K8. I'm in season 3 right now and I have a very good team and I'm 1-1 and unless I play well, the CPU will beat me if they're on their A game. The thing about football games is that it only takes ONE PLAY to change the entire outcome of the game. In basketball there is much more room for error/bugs. When I throw a pass in the 4th quarter and it clearly is going to my wide receiver but warps back into the hands of the CPU...that KILLS A GAME! That hour I just spent playing the game is ruined because of a flaw in the game. I do welcome the addition of the online dynasty because I think that will be a great feature. Still I'm with you that we need AI that doesn't get stale! We want a football game to simulate the real life experience, people who want an arcade type of game can go get Blitz. It seems they are catering much more to the Blitz crowd because they must make up the majority of the gaming population. Hundreds of thousands of people buy the games and I'm guessing tens of thousands go on internet forums to talk about them. I will say this forum really does exploit bugs/glitches/problems you would sometimes not even notice unless you were here. With that said the opposite is true as well, you find out some really good stuff here! OP I feel you

The thing is....NCAA has flashes of brilliance AI wise.

Take for instance last night,

I'm playing on my new Auburn dynasty in year 1 running the Troy Spread offense. I'm playing Bama in the Iron Bowl, ranked #5 in the nation and 10-1 on the year. I've just drubbed Georgia by 40 and playing a Bama team that is 6-5.

I'm using the adjustable sliders that Spin posted and had probably the most exciting game I've ever had in NCAA, winning 20-14 in a game that Bama outgained me by almost 100 yards and only turned the ball over once.

They ran the ball well, threw well...basically played great. Hard fought game.

THAT is what is so maddening. Once out of about 6 or 7 games I'll get an absolute classic....which is followed up by the CPU basically committing suicide 2 or 3 straight games with dumb playcalls, multiple turnovers that become TDs for me, and a 40 point win for me, even against teams that are even with me in talent.

The ability is there...EA just needs to FOCUS on it...not on cheerleaders or celebrating mascots.


As far as Hoops is concerned..I echo stewaat. I am in Year 4 of my Auburn dynasty and for the first time ever, I'm undefeated deep into the season at 17-0. My team is pretty sick talent and depth wise and I've had some close calls but managed to stay undefeated. I start to think "maybe I need to change the sliders again...."

Well..using the EXACT SAME SLIDERS, I decided to finally start a career legacy with Charleston Southern. I'm 2-3 with one choke job loss to Tulane and 2 absolute blowout losses, including a 40 point drubbing to Auburn.

That is called quality AI programming. If I play and coach well and have a talented team, I usually win. If I play and coach well and I'm light years behind my opponent talent wise, I lose..and lose BIG.

If I play and coach badly with a talented team or less talented team...I lose.

That's how it SHOULD work...everytime, not just once every 6 or 7 ballgames.

But online dynasty for NCAA will be my saving grace. So far, We've got 4 of us committed to a long term dynasty. That's plenty of tough opponents that will ALWAYS play smart (well...maybe ) and keep the game fresh and challenging.

Considering I still play the hell out of NCAA 08, I'm confident that we can find sliders that are suitably pleasing for all involved as well.

Online dynasty really will bring a whole new dimension to the fun factor of dynasties IMO.