Rocket Catching

[hcopenhagenh]

Quote: Originally Posted by WK21

No, there is something wrong with rocket catching..its unrealistic yea, we can stop it..but a very small percentage of people would find a game in which they have to defend that sort of BS all game vs a game that resembles real football ...fun and that is the point of this whole thing.. NCAA online is not real football...and it is not EAs fault it the JAs faults.. Out of the 500+ games I have played, then than 40 of those were straight up games by my opponent wide receivers at te, hb at fb...yea we can combat these by doing equally cheesy things on defense but WHATS THE POINT.. some people just want to play a game like they see on TV.. /rant

The NCAA series itself isn't real football even when playing against the CPU. The AI and logic has gotten out of control. You have to have a dissertation of rules that just to make it play half way real.

[sois]

Quote: Originally Posted by hcopenhagenh

LOL... Why? I want to do the work for myself. I don't want the CPU do it for me. Why be able to control a RB then? Or why control when the QB throws? I User Catch everything. It doesn't matter if it is rocket catch or not. Slants, outs, hitches, drags, In's, Fades, I do it all for myself because I don't trust the AI to do it for me. What is wrong with that?

My argument against this is that this type of route is unrealistic. You are taking control of the receiver and breaking the route despite the receiver not knowing that the QB threw the ball. Also not knowing where the ball is thrown.

You have an unfair advantage of seeing the trajectory of the ball in the air. There is no way a receiver could make that kind of adjustment.

If this was a timing route, I would *maybe* buy it, but there are no timing routes in the NCAA playbook. If there were, there would be proper DB reactions.

Every rocket catch has the DB properly in place to where the play should be happening. You are just taking advantage of your unfair knowledge of the ball location.

[hcopenhagenh]

Quote: Originally Posted by sois

My argument against this is that this type of route is unrealistic. You are taking control of the receiver and breaking the route despite the receiver not knowing that the QB threw the ball. Also not knowing where the ball is thrown. You have an unfair advantage of seeing the trajectory of the ball in the air. There is no way a receiver could make that kind of adjustment. If this was a timing route, I would *maybe* buy it, but there are no timing routes in the NCAA playbook. If there were, there would be proper DB reactions. Every rocket catch has the DB properly in place to where the play should be happening. You are just taking advantage of your unfair knowledge of the ball location.

I didn't say this route. I was arguing with this fella because he said to take out User Catching altogether. That seems a bit lame. I agree that the Rocket Catch should be taken out. Well, not really. There are players that are good at jump balls. Ratings should actually matter because 5'9" speed receivers shouldn't be able to rocket catch.

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by NoLittleBabies

1. QBs are still too accurate. Look at the balls being thrown in the video. They are all extremely accurate bullets. And I know it's the Heisman winner throwing them, but c'mon, nobody throws with that much precision on 20-25 yard passes.

I'm not sure how much I agree with this. I'll agree that it's unrealistic that QBs are able to put it on the spot like they can, but realistically, most QBs could probably get it to an area where a user would still be able to take over and jump for the ball. Basically, in theory, you're right that the passes are still too accurate, but in practice, I'm not sure how much this is going to affect the issue.

Your second point is also valid in theory, but in practice, I'm not sure that there's anything that can be done about it, other than to completely remove user catching, which isn't a good option. There are all kinds of things that we can do on the videogame that players can't do in real life, based on the fact that the user can see more of the field. This is particularly evident in the passing game on both offense and defense.

The animation itself is not really a problem. The WR isn't jumping unrealistically high in any of these catches, and they aren't accessing any kind of unrealistic catch animation. The animations also already exist for the DBs to make the proper play, but the problem is that the DB seems to be going for the INT, rather than going for a wrap swat or a big hit to knock the ball loose. In real life, a DB would play a jump ball to try and get a hand on the ball if possible, but also to make sure and get a good hit on the wide receiver to try and jar the ball loose. It seems to me that in all of those catches, the DBs are in perfect position to lay the WR out with a big hit, or to break the pass up with a wrap swat, but the problem is that the AI keeps going for the interception. Thus, you can only stop it by user defending it, and given the short amount of time that you have to switch to a defender, figure out which guy you have, and then try to make a play, that's overly difficult (and doesn't address the effectiveness of this versus the computer). Realistically, the best way to solve it is to just have DBs automatically go for a big hit or a wrap swat on the receiver anytime a pass is precision passed high.

If the game had more drops, and particularly if they had tip drops, where the ball hits the WR in the hands and then gets tipped up into the air, like the one at the 1:16 mark of this video, then there would be a lot more risk to continually throwing high, and a lot less reward.

[sois]

Quote: Originally Posted by hcopenhagenh

I didn't say this route. I was arguing with this fella because he said to take out User Catching altogether. That seems a bit lame. I agree that the Rocket Catch should be taken out. Well, not really. There are players that are good at jump balls. Ratings should actually matter because 5'9" speed receivers shouldn't be able to rocket catch.

I was not talking about a specific route. I am talking about EVERY route.

If a receiver is running down field, he has a general idea when the QB will throw the ball. He has a general idea of where the ball should be.

By allowing the user to break off the designed route, you are essentially putting eyes in the back of the receiver's head. User catching is not the problem here. User route freelancing is the problem.

[sois]

Just look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGA6oNvWjmE

The creator is explaining how to rocket catch in/out routes and streak routes. I even think I saw a few post routes being exploited in one of these vids.

In real life, there is not really much jumping going on in an in/out route. Rarely there is diving. Nobody should be jumping straight up in the air on a in/out route.

A streak route doesn't require a jumpball type animation. Over the shoulder catches and forward dives should be it.

Since the user is breaking off the routes, the unnatural (for the route) jumping animation is triggered.

[seawolves9]

If your going to take out user catching as a whole, then you've got to drastically increase the aggressiveness and awareness of the offensive players. If I don't manually control the receiver on some plays, the ball will be picked off just because the wide receiver expects the ball to come to him while the defender is actually making a play on the ball and this usually results in an interception and is the reason why I've found it near impossible to play as a QB in campus legend mode.

[o 99 PROBL3MS o]

They don't have to remove user catching. User catch ability, in itself, isn't the issue. If the game had a resemblance of real turning radius and physical momentum, rocket catches would become virtually impossible. A WR shouldn't be able to run at full speed, stop on a dime with no decceleration (issue #1), turn around 180 degrees with no foot planting (issue #20, and vault vertically into the air without out being carried further downfield by his momentum (issue #3).

After completing this physically impossible task, even while being hit, the WR comes down with the completion 90% of the time (issue #4). Nothing about rocket catching is realistic but it is possible due to a number of other issues which have been pointing out in previous post. I just wanted to go through the mechanic of the "rocket catch" just to show you how all those other issues make it possible (ex. not enough drops after hits, no physical momentum etc.). Since NCAA 10 is done, hopefully they can fix this for NCAA 11.