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CVELL · 08-01-2009, 12:59 AM

What is Adaptive AI?

Is it the CPU knowing what play I called before I run it and moving players into perfect positions? If so, that's not new, it's just being acknowledged now.

Why do I get caught from behind on breakaways no matter the distance I am ahead or how fast my player is?

How do u set up blocks if they only happen before u get the ball? It took forever to figure out that when u take control of the RB, DON'T run to the hole u see. Those are for the LB's to run through.

Ever had a duwd quit an online game winning because u were up by like 21 points at halftime? Then play the CPU the 2nd half and they morph into an NFL team? Funny, u only experience "Momentum" when don't have it.

THIS GAME IS PLAYED EXACTLY LIKE 09. Online is exactly like last year. Mobile QB's look like superstars because there is no penalty for having a 83 for THR ACC if u just throw to the flats or roll out and wait for the drag/cross/post.

And yes, I'm ranked top 200 so I know what I'm doing, it's just massively boring playing Pryor, Jefferson, McCoy/Harris, every game because the mobile QB is the only Offense that works for non-football gamers.

Next year, let's fix the problems so we can slow the game down and play some football. This "WTF, just chuck" offense is making the game unreal.

steelers1 · 08-01-2009, 04:46 AM

Honestly I don't really think the engine(s) that are being used in EA's games are capable of handling the physics and stuff needed to make a completely realistic game. As long as this same platform is used for the NCAA and Madden games, you will see players spinning around 360 degrees on a dime and doing crazy stuff every other play. I just don't think it can handle the physics and interactions to actually make blocking work correctly, and as long as blocking is wrong, the game is fundamentally flawed.

Until they decide to start from the ground up, they are going to keep 'programming around the problems.' I honestly don't know much about video game programming, but this is what I believe. I don't imagine this happening for a while. Madden has made such huge steps this year in presentation that it would be considered a waste to have to start over with something new. The 1 year dev cycle might very well doom us to basically the same gameplay until the next generation of consoles.

I wish they would basically take 2 years and redo the whole game, and either just sell a patch for like 20 bucks with a roster update and other small stuff or just release a slightly updated less expensive game. Of course we know that will never happen.

BA2929 · 08-01-2009, 05:02 AM

Why do people nowadays expect a perfect game all the time? It will never happen. No matter how great a game is someone will find something wrong with it and complain about it.... even if it's the smallest detail. Someone will complain that a mobile QB is dominate.... but they forget that Mike Vick was dominate in the NFL for years being mobile... and Pat White took his team from being worthless to being great because he was mobile. I remember back in the days of Tecmo Bowl, so I can deal with things not being perfect (because Willie Gault was a terrible WR in real life, but in the game he was great), but I don't know where everyone gets off thinking that a video game has to be 100% realistic to become a fun game to play. I really enjoy this game. Sure a few things annoy me, but I understand that it isn't real life and things aren't going to be perfect. - Hate away.

steelers1 · 08-01-2009, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA2929


	Why do people nowadays expect a perfect game all the time? It will never happen. No matter how great a game is someone will find something wrong with it and complain about it.... even if it's the smallest detail. Someone will complain that a mobile QB is dominate.... but they forget that Mike Vick was dominate in the NFL for years being mobile... and Pat White took his team from being worthless to being great because he was mobile. I remember back in the days of Tecmo Bowl, so I can deal with things not being perfect (because Willie Gault was a terrible WR in real life, but in the game he was great), but I don't know where everyone gets off thinking that a video game has to be 100% realistic to become a fun game to play. I really enjoy this game. Sure a few things annoy me, but I understand that it isn't real life and things aren't going to be perfect. - Hate away.

There is so much wrong with this post. I don't think Vick was really dominant or that WVU was worthless before Pat White, but those are different discussions.

Nobody expects a perfect game, and I hate when everyone says that. I don't get why you are even here if you are going to be completely happy with everything.

The flaws that have been included in this game, and the list is massive, can hardly be considered 'small details,' and as a consumer, everyone has a right to point out flaws. Here are some parts of the game that are completely and utterly flawed and broken: BLOCKING, physics, zone coverage, player fatigue (players able to run full speed without tiring for one play), etc, etc, etc... And that's just gameplay, and isn't mentioning shipping a game with broken rosters, sliders, broken overtime, broken option pitches, or the progression bug.

If I was complaining about how I couldn't do donuts on Gran Turismo 4, you would have a legit complaint about nit picking. When the core mechanics of football are not represented in a way that even closely resembles real life it is not nit picking. The game does not represent the sport very well and while it may be 'fun' to many, it needs a lot of work.

TimLawNYC · 08-01-2009, 10:14 AM

And it's not as if these are new problems that have only been in this year's version of the game. Many of these problems have been ruining this game FOR YEARS, and every year EA promises they're fixing it, and then the game comes out and the same problems (plus new ones) are "in the game". And it's even worse because EA got exclusive licenses for football, so there's no competitor we can flock to. This monopoly is our only choice for video game football.

So, IMO, EA can't fault us for complaining at this point. Our frustration level has risen over the past decade or so, as EA continues PROMISING that problems are fixed every year, and really not only NOT fixing those problems but installing new ones (e.g. this year's dynasty progression). And EA has set themselves up as the only game in town so it can't be a surprise that gamers are getting fed up.

And it might help if the game seemed to be progressing overall. But we still aren't up to the same level this game was at even early last-gen: it had fewer bugs and more features (dynasty was certainly deeper, for one thing). We have MUCH more powerful hardware to work with, so the game should constantly be getting better, but instead we're still playing catch-up to NCAA 2004. And again, because of EA's monopoly, WE HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE! How can you expect us not to voice our displeasure and frustration at this point?

boomersooner31 · 08-01-2009, 11:18 AM

Honestly it must only be this game that has these problems cause NHL 09 was really, really good and one of the best sports titles i've ever played. If road to the show is back in, holy crap i will go nuts!

mvandor · 08-01-2009, 11:24 AM

I do agree the engine itself is quite dated, at some point EA has to move to more of a physics based engine. They've been stretching the life of this animation driven one for over a decade.

EdgeCrusher · 08-01-2009, 11:45 AM

As mentioned earlier, all this game needs is a one year hiatus from coming out.
Any other genre of game, (FPS, Action,RPG) the devs will push the game back if they feel it needs more time in the oven.Most recently Splinter Cell:Conviction and Bioshock 2.

All the guys working on this series, now I'm guessing here so don't hold me too it, I would assume get some type of vacation for X amount of days (after game is released), come back find they need to get patches ironed out for this game.After that is said and done, you have a 8-9 month window for next year's game.

Every year it's an under the gun to get it done by mid-July! That I think is starting to wear on the series.I enjoy this year's version quite a bit, so if I come across as bashing, don't mean too.

But I think taking a year off would do wonders for the series.

08-01-2009, 12:59 AM	#1
CVELL Rookie OVR: 9 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ill State Blog Entries: 1	It's time to fix problems, not program around them. What is Adaptive AI? Is it the CPU knowing what play I called before I run it and moving players into perfect positions? If so, that's not new, it's just being acknowledged now. Why do I get caught from behind on breakaways no matter the distance I am ahead or how fast my player is? How do u set up blocks if they only happen before u get the ball? It took forever to figure out that when u take control of the RB, DON'T run to the hole u see. Those are for the LB's to run through. Ever had a duwd quit an online game winning because u were up by like 21 points at halftime? Then play the CPU the 2nd half and they morph into an NFL team? Funny, u only experience "Momentum" when don't have it. THIS GAME IS PLAYED EXACTLY LIKE 09. Online is exactly like last year. Mobile QB's look like superstars because there is no penalty for having a 83 for THR ACC if u just throw to the flats or roll out and wait for the drag/cross/post. And yes, I'm ranked top 200 so I know what I'm doing, it's just massively boring playing Pryor, Jefferson, McCoy/Harris, every game because the mobile QB is the only Offense that works for non-football gamers. Next year, let's fix the problems so we can slow the game down and play some football. This "WTF, just chuck" offense is making the game unreal. __________________ "I remain the 1, like 5 divided by 4." - Black Vell -

08-01-2009, 04:46 AM	#2
steelers1 Pro OVR: 9 Join Date: Dec 2007	Re: It's time to fix problems, not program around them. Honestly I don't really think the engine(s) that are being used in EA's games are capable of handling the physics and stuff needed to make a completely realistic game. As long as this same platform is used for the NCAA and Madden games, you will see players spinning around 360 degrees on a dime and doing crazy stuff every other play. I just don't think it can handle the physics and interactions to actually make blocking work correctly, and as long as blocking is wrong, the game is fundamentally flawed. Until they decide to start from the ground up, they are going to keep 'programming around the problems.' I honestly don't know much about video game programming, but this is what I believe. I don't imagine this happening for a while. Madden has made such huge steps this year in presentation that it would be considered a waste to have to start over with something new. The 1 year dev cycle might very well doom us to basically the same gameplay until the next generation of consoles. I wish they would basically take 2 years and redo the whole game, and either just sell a patch for like 20 bucks with a roster update and other small stuff or just release a slightly updated less expensive game. Of course we know that will never happen.

08-01-2009, 05:02 AM	#3
BA2929 The Designated Hitter OVR: 20 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,340	Re: It's time to fix problems, not program around them. Why do people nowadays expect a perfect game all the time? It will never happen. No matter how great a game is someone will find something wrong with it and complain about it.... even if it's the smallest detail. Someone will complain that a mobile QB is dominate.... but they forget that Mike Vick was dominate in the NFL for years being mobile... and Pat White took his team from being worthless to being great because he was mobile. I remember back in the days of Tecmo Bowl, so I can deal with things not being perfect (because Willie Gault was a terrible WR in real life, but in the game he was great), but I don't know where everyone gets off thinking that a video game has to be 100% realistic to become a fun game to play. I really enjoy this game. Sure a few things annoy me, but I understand that it isn't real life and things aren't going to be perfect. - Hate away.

08-01-2009, 10:14 AM	#5
TimLawNYC Rookie OVR: 5 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New York, New York	Re: It's time to fix problems, not program around them. And it's not as if these are new problems that have only been in this year's version of the game. Many of these problems have been ruining this game FOR YEARS, and every year EA promises they're fixing it, and then the game comes out and the same problems (plus new ones) are "in the game". And it's even worse because EA got exclusive licenses for football, so there's no competitor we can flock to. This monopoly is our only choice for video game football. So, IMO, EA can't fault us for complaining at this point. Our frustration level has risen over the past decade or so, as EA continues PROMISING that problems are fixed every year, and really not only NOT fixing those problems but installing new ones (e.g. this year's dynasty progression). And EA has set themselves up as the only game in town so it can't be a surprise that gamers are getting fed up. And it might help if the game seemed to be progressing overall. But we still aren't up to the same level this game was at even early last-gen: it had fewer bugs and more features (dynasty was certainly deeper, for one thing). We have MUCH more powerful hardware to work with, so the game should constantly be getting better, but instead we're still playing catch-up to NCAA 2004. And again, because of EA's monopoly, WE HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE! How can you expect us not to voice our displeasure and frustration at this point?

08-01-2009, 11:18 AM	#6
boomersooner31 Rookie OVR: 5 Join Date: Jul 2009	Re: It's time to fix problems, not program around them. Honestly it must only be this game that has these problems cause NHL 09 was really, really good and one of the best sports titles i've ever played. If road to the show is back in, holy crap i will go nuts!

	MLB The Show 24 Review: Another Solid Hit for the Series
	New Star GP Review: Old-School Arcade Fun
	Where Are Our College Basketball Video Game Rumors?

08-01-2009, 11:24 AM	#7
mvandor Banned OVR: 7 Join Date: Jul 2003	Re: It's time to fix problems, not program around them. I do agree the engine itself is quite dated, at some point EA has to move to more of a physics based engine. They've been stretching the life of this animation driven one for over a decade.

08-01-2009, 11:45 AM	#8
EdgeCrusher Rookie OVR: 2 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wisconsin	Re: It's time to fix problems, not program around them. As mentioned earlier, all this game needs is a one year hiatus from coming out. Any other genre of game, (FPS, Action,RPG) the devs will push the game back if they feel it needs more time in the oven.Most recently Splinter Cell:Conviction and Bioshock 2. All the guys working on this series, now I'm guessing here so don't hold me too it, I would assume get some type of vacation for X amount of days (after game is released), come back find they need to get patches ironed out for this game.After that is said and done, you have a 8-9 month window for next year's game. Every year it's an under the gun to get it done by mid-July! That I think is starting to wear on the series.I enjoy this year's version quite a bit, so if I come across as bashing, don't mean too. But I think taking a year off would do wonders for the series.

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It's time to fix problems, not program around them.