Where is the true power running?

[Bellsprout]

Demps must be like cheating in this game.

I've been wondering about this. Seemed like Lattimore refused to truck anybody for me. Turns out I've gotta do it earlier. Can't wait to try it out tonight.

[youALREADYknow]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

Even if Madden fully integrated a BackBreaker like physics system, the attempts to break tackles themselves would still be animations. Those animations could simply be interrupted by physics when the attempts fail. Unfortunately, in this case, the answer to the problem is not physics, it's more animations.

You missed the point of my post.

The outcome logic of collisions in NCAA/Madden is based upon their animations and ratings. [and someone please correct me if they have seen evidence otherwise]

The outcome logic should be based primarily upon the physics engine.

They don't need anything additional added to the game to generate physics-based outcomes because both Madden and NCAA already have physics engines. All that is needed is to compute the outcome and then generate the appropriate animation.

Example:

Jeff Demps tries to stiff arm a huge 300+ pound defensive tackle on a run up the middle.

The current animation engine may allow this to happen if the button is pressed at the right time. There are still at least three animations which take place though. One is the actual stiff-arm by Demps, another is the tackle animation by the defensive tackle, and then a transition animation bridges to the outcome animation which is either a defensive success (successful tackle completion and failed stiff-arm) or offensive success (failed tackle and stiff-arm completion).

Based on what I'm saying, the outcome decision engine needs to use the physics engine as the primary driver. After the stiff-arm animation by Demps and the tackle animation by the defensive tackle there is a transition animation which must take place if there is any contact between the two objects.

The resulting animation should quite frankly always result in Demps being crushed in one of many possible ways by this huge defensive tackle unless Demps is flying at full speed into a defensive tackle whose momentum is already taking them backwards or to the side. Speed, momentum, size.... these values are used in the physics engine. The final outcome animation still comes from the typical EA Sports animation library. I don't necessarily care how many ways that little guy can be crushed, but only that he does actually get crushed. Your comment that the game lacks animations simply refers to how many ways a player can be tackled, how many angles are accounted for, and how many situations can be accounted for. Even with one tackle animation and one broken tackle animation in the entire game, there has to be a winner/loser in a collision.

BackBreaker relies on physics to determine how the entire transition animation is simulated through the outcome animation which is generated on-the-fly. Madden/NCAA only seem to use transition animations to cover the gap between the player's current position and the starting position of their mo-cap animations. That's why we see so much player and football warping and herky-jerky motion to get players in that "perfect" position to pull off the final animation. I'm not referring to that problem because there's no right answer. I'm simply referring to how the outcome decision gets made within the game AI.

[carnalnirvana]

interesting debate:

i think the ratings are most to blame.

1. a power back should not have above 50 agility imo, forcing the engine to eliminate those animations, again a power back should not have 95 juking( especially since its not a tendency rating) same for spin.

eliminating useless calculations should help the cpu sort out an animation that a power back has,

wanna know why ingram plays like demps its because they are rated the same sharing the same animations.....

i think on a minor scale the game can simulate strength its just that with all the other ratings tacked on at jacked up levels the game selects those more often than not.

i did some tests i lowered juking and spin on power backs and with RB ability at 75 they used stiff arms and trucking more exclusively.

power backs dont hop to juke they step especially at top speeds and an agility rating of 90 has them jump juking like idiots....

[ActLikeYouCrow]

another thing is demps has 79 truck and 71 strength on default, thats insanity. his juke ratings are way too high as well but thats another matter. it just goes along with the theme of players not being rated to play realistically.

physics need to be implemented better too

[chicubsfan20]

Quote: Originally Posted by jello1717

Try playing a game as Wisconsin. Clay is a freakin' beast and runs just like a power back should. Also, the CPU isn't the only one that can dip their shoulder. You can do the same thing with the "truck" stick.

This is so true. I just dominate everything with him. I almost feel bad for Nick Toon, because I rarely use him when I probably should. Clay is just a beast, with the occasional backup coming in to change the pace a little and for screens; Clay is terrorizing for me in my dynasty.

One thing I have held myself to, is when playing with friends I refuse to use Wisconsin because of Clay. I am the type of person who if you can't stop the run, I will run all day and let the clock just run. I do throw the usually play action in, but I let the clock run.

[KG]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

interesting debate: i think the ratings are most to blame. 1. a power back should not have above 50 agility imo, forcing the engine to eliminate those animations, again a power back should not have 95 juking( especially since its not a tendency rating) same for spin. eliminating useless calculations should help the cpu sort out an animation that a power back has, wanna know why ingram plays like demps its because they are rated the same sharing the same animations..... i think on a minor scale the game can simulate strength its just that with all the other ratings tacked on at jacked up levels the game selects those more often than not. i did some tests i lowered juking and spin on power backs and with RB ability at 75 they used stiff arms and trucking more exclusively. power backs dont hop to juke they step especially at top speeds and an agility rating of 90 has them jump juking like idiots....

I think it's a combination of things but you're right too, the ratings are straight up horrible. A guy like Jeff Demps doesn't break tackles, he eludes tacklers. While his default ratings would seem to reflect this (97 ELV, 81 BTK) the game doesn't play out that way. He also has 80 trucking which probably makes the CPU think he's a power back.

EA just refuses to rate people poorly when it comes to NCAA but will do so in Madden. Demps and other scat backs can still be good players with strength & trucking ratings in the 50s.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

You missed the point of my post. [snip...]

Ah, I get what you're saying. My bad.