Attempting to Revise Coach Prestige ratings

[Pogo27]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrMagic91

Who said i was fine with every coch having a high rating? I was talking about Mack Brown deserves a high rated prestige homie. That is all.

You can't give Mack Brown an A+ rating next to Nick Saban and inflate Mack Brown's prestige without also inflating every coach's prestige. Unless you just like Mack Brown, don't mind a little fantasy in your dynasty, and want him to be the one inaccurately rated coach in your dynasty, and that's fine too.

[hkwforAUTigers]

Thread gone crazy. maybe we should attempt to get back on target folks?

[TarHeelPhenom]

Yall had to take it there. Get back on the road man. How do you plan to fix this? Can it be fixed? Can Coaches be edited like that?

[smithc6]

Quote: Originally Posted by TarHeelPhenom

Yall had to take it there. Get back on the road man. How do you plan to fix this? Can it be fixed? Can Coaches be edited like that?

This is what Id like to know. Is it even possible to adjust prestige ratings? If so how do you do it?

[Nicejob3532]

Quote: Originally Posted by smithc6

This is what Id like to know. Is it even possible to adjust prestige ratings? If so how do you do it?

Team Management click on coaches and you can edit any coach you want.

[Iceman87GT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pogo27

Mack Brown has been at Texas for way too long without enough to show for it to be an A+ coach. He's an excellent coach, and a B+ at worst, but he's not in the same category as Nick Saban. I mean, he's just not. Nick Saban is far away ahead of Mack Brown. And if you give Mack Brown an A+, there's nothing to give Saban. And the only reason I think Mack Brown would be B+ rather than A is because I'm in favor of starting all the coaches slightly lower, maybe leaving Saban as the only A coach. Nick Saban, since 2001, has... 2 National Championships, 3 Conference Championships (in what has unquestionably been the toughest conference in the nation at least since 2001), and 5 conference division championships. Not to mention a plethora of Coach of the Year awards. And oh yeah... he did it with LSU and with Alabama... not all with one school where you can just build a dynasty and keep it rolling. His head coaching record in college is 134-53-1. This is what Nick Saban did since 2001, and let's not forget he spent two of those years in the NFL. Mack Brown, in his time at Texas (since 1999), has... 1 National Championship, 2 Conference Championships, 6 conference division championships (in a 2-team division...). And not nearly the extended list of Coach of the Year awards that Saban has. His overall college record is 219-108-1. His record in his 12 seasons at Texas is 133-34. In 8 years coaching at the college level, Nick Saban won more championships than Mack Brown has done in his 12 years at Texas, and again... Nick Saban did it at two different programs. Mack Brown is good. He's not Nick Saban good.

9 straight years with 10 or more wins, only one losing season since 1990. A National Championship, 2 Conference championships (would have been 3 if they didn't get screwed back in 08, when they beat OU and wound up losing the tie-breaker to OU). The best? no, among the best? Yes!

It should be based on their abilities and performance, not their abilities and performance compared to a particular coach. You're wanting to grade on a curb which doesn't translate in an ever-changing situation.

For example by your standards Mack Brown won't be better than Saban until he gets another national title (Mack Brown in his 13 years at Texas has one fewer win and 19 fewer losses than Saban has in his entire time as a coach, if you take Brown's last 15 seasons as well we're talking comparing a 134-53 record to a 153-37 record, he's clearly on that same level record-wise if not exceeding Saban's performance).

And if you start rating coaches based on other coaches, then there can be no A's because the Best Coaches are no longer alive/coaching (Bobby Dodd, Bear Bryant etc.). It should be strictly about their ability and performance (performance having more weight with some coaches than others i.e. Gene Chizik and the tigers don't come close to a division title (perhaps not even a bowl bid) without Cam Newton, and apparently it wasn't his recruiting that got him so he still doesn't deserve much credit for what Newton was able to do).

[Pogo27]

I'm only comparing Mack Brown to Nick Saban directly because someone else is suggesting that Mack Brown should be rated the same as Nick Saban.

I'd gladly look at Nick Saban versus any other coach.


And I agree, there definitely shouldn't be any A+ coaches, because no one coaching today is a legend quite like Bear Bryant, not yet anyway. And maybe we don't need any A coaches either. Maybe the coaching prestige levels start with Nick Saban at a B+ and work your way down from there.

The important thing that I was trying to emphasize with Nick Saban, that for me puts him clear cut ahead of Mack Brown isn't necessarily record or even national championships (at least not until Nick Saban picks up a few more, then when he has 4, and Brown has 1, then I'll point to that as more evidence). The thing that puts Nick Saban ahead of Mack Brown (and every other coach) is the fact that he showed up at LSU and had his national championship by 3 years. Got his players in, won the championship.

Took a couple years off in the NFL, came back to Alabama. And let's not forget... before Nick Saban showed up, Alabama wasn't good. They were BAD. Before Nick Saban, LSU and Auburn were the SEC West powers, while Arkansas, Ole Miss, and SOMETIMES Alabama were competing for 3rd. But Nick Saban shows up. Third year? National championship. Got his players in, won the championship.

And he's doing it in the SEC, which is a much tougher conference than the Big 12. The Big 12 gave the SEC a run for its money for a year or two, but that was it. Meanwhile, Mack Brown has been at one program for 12 years which plays in an easier conference (although the Big 12 South as a division is just about as strong as either SEC division, I guess) and only has one national championship and two conference championships (to Saban's 2 and 3 respectively) to show for it. He's been at the same program. By year 3 he had his players. Years 4 through 12 should all be reloading years.

Now if Saban stays at 'Bama and can't nab another championship and his career kind of goes the way of Mack Brown, then okay, I knock Nick Saban down a notch and put him on the level with Mack Brown and a handful of other coaches.

If Urban Meyer were still coaching, he'd be right there with Nick Saban (if I were to rank them, Meyer probably is #1, with Saban #2, but they'd get the same letter grade). He won 2 national championships at Florida in 6 years. First in his second year with mostly someone else's players and again in his 4th year with his players. In his 5th year, he went 13-1, with his only loss coming to eventual national champions Alabama and their elite head coach Nick Saban. (He's also the 6th fastest coach to win 100 college football games.)

If Pete Carroll were still coaching, he'd be right there also, and again, if I had to rank them, I think he's better than the other two (I guess depending on how much of a hand he had in all the scandalous stuff). Just look at his resume from his 9 years at USC. Two AP national championships, 1 BCS national championship, another BCS national championship appearance (but lost), seven consecutive AP top 4 finishes, record-setting 33-straight weeks ranked #1, 53 players selected in the NFL draft including 14 first-rounders, three Heisman trophy winners, four top 5 draft classes, etc, etc, etc. Now, this is muddied by sanctions and such, but winning is winning.


In the game, coach prestige determines your ability to recruit and how well your players develop. It's not a question of how nice of a guy you are or whether or not you do things the right way (because I'll agree, these are two of Mack's finer points). It's about winning. Mack Brown is at a pretty high up, pretty exclusive level. But he's not the very top tier. Right now, the only person on that level is Nick Saban. There are other coaches out there who can put themselves at that level if they continue the success they're having now, but I have to put Mack Brown at that tier just below Nick Saban but still in the top 5.


EDIT: And I agree about Gene Chizik. If anything, I almost think Gus Malzahn should have a prestige equal or higher than Chizik, because he's obviously the brains of that operation. But when you bring up this point... how is Chizik that much different from Mack Brown in his national championship victory? Mack Brown has won one in 12 years and he did it with...? VINCE YOUNG. So we bring up Nick Saban again. He's won a championship twice. At two different programs, and in the 3rd year of his tenure there.

[Iceman87GT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pogo27

I'm only comparing Mack Brown to Nick Saban directly because someone else is suggesting that Mack Brown should be rated the same as Nick Saban. I'd gladly look at Nick Saban versus any other coach. And I agree, there definitely shouldn't be any A+ coaches, because no one coaching today is a legend quite like Bear Bryant, not yet anyway. And maybe we don't need any A coaches either. Maybe the coaching prestige levels start with Nick Saban at a B+ and work your way down from there. The important thing that I was trying to emphasize with Nick Saban, that for me puts him clear cut ahead of Mack Brown isn't necessarily record or even national championships (at least not until Nick Saban picks up a few more, then when he has 4, and Brown has 1, then I'll point to that as more evidence). The thing that puts Nick Saban ahead of Mack Brown (and every other coach) is the fact that he showed up at LSU and had his national championship by 3 years. Got his players in, won the championship. Took a couple years off in the NFL, came back to Alabama. And let's not forget... before Nick Saban showed up, Alabama wasn't good. They were BAD. Before Nick Saban, LSU and Auburn were the SEC West powers, while Arkansas, Ole Miss, and SOMETIMES Alabama were competing for 3rd. But Nick Saban shows up. Third year? National championship. Got his players in, won the championship. And he's doing it in the SEC, which is a much tougher conference than the Big 12. The Big 12 gave the SEC a run for its money for a year or two, but that was it. Meanwhile, Mack Brown has been at one program for 12 years which plays in an easier conference (although the Big 12 South as a division is just about as strong as either SEC division, I guess) and only has one national championship and two conference championships (to Saban's 2 and 3 respectively) to show for it. He's been at the same program. By year 3 he had his players. Years 4 through 12 should all be reloading years. Now if Saban stays at 'Bama and can't nab another championship and his career kind of goes the way of Mack Brown, then okay, I knock Nick Saban down a notch and put him on the level with Mack Brown and a handful of other coaches. If Urban Meyer were still coaching, he'd be right there with Nick Saban (if I were to rank them, Meyer probably is #1, with Saban #2, but they'd get the same letter grade). He won 2 national championships at Florida in 6 years. First in his second year with mostly someone else's players and again in his 4th year with his players. In his 5th year, he went 13-1, with his only loss coming to eventual national champions Alabama and their elite head coach Nick Saban. (He's also the 6th fastest coach to win 100 college football games.) If Pete Carroll were still coaching, he'd be right there also, and again, if I had to rank them, I think he's better than the other two (I guess depending on how much of a hand he had in all the scandalous stuff). Just look at his resume from his 9 years at USC. Two AP national championships, 1 BCS national championship, another BCS national championship appearance (but lost), seven consecutive AP top 4 finishes, record-setting 33-straight weeks ranked #1, 53 players selected in the NFL draft including 14 first-rounders, three Heisman trophy winners, four top 5 draft classes, etc, etc, etc. Now, this is muddied by sanctions and such, but winning is winning. In the game, coach prestige determines your ability to recruit and how well your players develop. It's not a question of how nice of a guy you are or whether or not you do things the right way (because I'll agree, these are two of Mack's finer points). It's about winning. Mack Brown is at a pretty high up, pretty exclusive level. But he's not the very top tier. Right now, the only person on that level is Nick Saban. There are other coaches out there who can put themselves at that level if they continue the success they're having now, but I have to put Mack Brown at that tier just below Nick Saban but still in the top 5. EDIT: And I agree about Gene Chizik. If anything, I almost think Gus Malzahn should have a prestige equal or higher than Chizik, because he's obviously the brains of that operation. But when you bring up this point... how is Chizik that much different from Mack Brown in his national championship victory? Mack Brown has won one in 12 years and he did it with...? VINCE YOUNG. So we bring up Nick Saban again. He's won a championship twice. At two different programs, and in the 3rd year of his tenure there.

Vince Young was in his 4th year in Mack Brown's system, Cam Newton was a beast who matured at a Junior College, that's not to say that Chizik had nothing to do with his improvement but its kinda like giving Caliperi credit for Derrick Rose's success in the NBA (he coached Rose for less than a year).

And you're missing my point about the ratings, they shouldn't be on a curve (i.e. the top coaches should be in the A+ range, they shouldn't have to be A's, or B+'s simply because the best coach is A+). I'm not arguing he (Saban) isn't the best right now, but he isn't the only A+ guy out there (though he certainly has the top score).

Mack Brown is a 94 (1 away from being an A+), which I say is more than fair (you can make the argument he belongs in the A+ range but he did come off of a 5-7 year so I won't argue with that rating). Saban has a 97 which I disagree with (unless its the highest grade, even then I think its a little low).

besides the grading scale they are using is really weird: 61-75 = C, 76-89 =B, 90-100 = A