The problem with "Hitting EA where it hurts"

[BTownSlinger]

The way I see it, they hit us where it hurts. No new engine in NCAA, but it's in Madden, no draft imports, no editing in Madden.. The list goes on.

Whats the reasoning behind buying both this year? I, like others, either will not be buying this year, or will be buying when it's $20.

[bukktown]

Quote: Originally Posted by Josh Knight

If you are a regular visitor to these forums, then I'm sure you've heard what seems to be 25% of the members here swearing that they will not by NCAA 13 or Madden 13 because they want to hurt EA financially, which somehow would result in major changes. I'm not here to tell you whether or not to buy the game, as I haven't even played anything but the demo yet. What I am here to tell you is that if you think that you are going to hurt EA by not purchasing, the fact is that your simply not. Here's why. The Operation Sports forums are home to what I typically consider the more "sim" players of these games. I am a sim player myself, it's why I like coming here. But the fact is that these forums and forums like it are a very small minority of the playerbase. Probably no more than 10% of players visit forums like these. Now, sim players tend to know very well what real football is like, and because of that they have strong opinions about what all the details should be like. If the facemasks are wrong, they'll know it. If the hair is wrong, they'll know that too. The result is that they do find the many flaws that are usually in any EA game, and it enrages them. So, they don't purchase. The problem goes back to the fact only a small number of players are like that. Most players won't ever read these forums. They are casual gamers. They just pick up the game because it's new, or because they watched USC play 3 years ago and figure that maybe a game will be fun. They don't really know the players, or how a system is supposed to work, or how defenders are supposed to react to a ball in the air. So, they don't see the problems people here do. They just have fun with the game for a couple weeks, and put it down to move on to whatever the new new thing is. What's the end result? Even if all the sim players in the world did not purchase the game. EA still has a large majority that still will, no matter the screw-up.

Thanks for the post, here's my opinion.

I disagree with the idea that people at OS will not buy the game because it is not SIM.

A lot of us don't buy the game because it is not FUN!

Last gen NCAA wasnt sim. But it was damn fun!

NHL and FIFA (current gen) are not sim but they are damn fun!

[KINGDAWG28]

Quote: Originally Posted by JerseySuave4

ahh one of these. People don't expect everything to be perfect, but they do expect the line to not just stand there while guys run by them, i expect that if i'm playing Georgia Tech the cpu can at least run the option. And of course, finish with the classic... if you don't like it, create a game yourself.

Ah one of these where you reply to nothing I stated. I didn't mention the word perfect. But, I guess your D-line is all supposed to be avg. 10 tackles a game? Play a good d-line with a bad o-line and your problem will be solved. But, again the triple-option is built to capitalize on your mental mistakes to wear you down and then you make a mistake and they bust a long one, but in a video game people have already cheesed to a 40 point lead.

Good post though, discount everything . Always easier to just echo other's complaints.

[Sublime12089]

I am not one of those crusade against the tyrannical Electronic Arts, as there are much more important things in life for that. I am also not an EA apologist, as I completely recognize that the product is subpar. I can still hold those views and make those arguments while spending $45 or $60 on a game, that will bring far more enjoyment than what I paid for it. That is my sole criteria for purchase, will I get that value out of the game. And for as ****ed up as they are many iterations, I get at least that value every year.

[PAPERNUT]

Quote: Originally Posted by fsufan4423

If you think sites like these don't matter in the grand scheme of things, take a look a Elite 11. The news about that demo spread like wild fires. Which I think had something to do with the quick hook. They may have decided to cancel anyway, but who were they listing to? Those people that just buy the games who don't visit forums. Just look over the past ten years and notice how EA and 2K now have community day events inviting community leaders to preview their games. I would say sites like these do matter.

Perhaps the best point of this thread so far and the one thing that has teed me off the most so far. We have gaming sites, forums, and the Game Changers that are being used as pr in my opinion for these games to sell more games instead of using their feedback to make a better game. There is no problem with them wanting to sell more games as that is their bottom line like any company, but you would think they would build a better game and take my $60 instead of the lost sales they will get this year. Until these sites give honest feedback, reviews, etc instead of just appeasing EA in order to go see the games early or get paid for doing bogus reviews, then EA has no reason to change.

I think public perception would be the only thing at this point to improve things. Just look at Madden. It was the game for many years then lost its thunder. It took that loss of status for them to finally put the resources into it to make a better game. Even though they were still selling well each year, it was the perception that Madden was not the king anymore that made them change more than $.

[JerseySuave4]

Quote: Originally Posted by KINGDAWG28

Ah one of these where you reply to nothing I stated. I didn't mention the word perfect. But, I guess your D-line is all supposed to be avg. 10 tackles a game? Play a good d-line with a bad o-line and your problem will be solved. But, again the triple-option is built to capitalize on your mental mistakes to wear you down and then you make a mistake and they bust a long one, but in a video game people have already cheesed to a 40 point lead. Good post though, discount everything . Always easier to just echo other's complaints.

You keep bringing real life football logic to the game as if it's in there. I know what the triple option is built to do. I coach football. But you blatantly ignore the fact that the CPU is incapable of running the option correctly. Add screen passes to that as well. And no you didn't use the word perfect but you did say we expect guys with 90+ ratings to never make a mistake aka be perfect. Its the same thing.

And no i don't want my D-line to be averaging 10 tackles a game, you're making my point for me. The O-Line is awful. It makes no difference if you're a good or bad team. There are times where the O-Line literally stands there while the Defender goes by him. Other times when the cpu QB snaps the ball and throws it out of bounds immediately.

You want to simply ignore the bugs and glitches and problems with this game and chalk it up as, well they make mistakes in real life.

[Josh Knight]

Quote: Originally Posted by BTownSlinger

The way I see it, they hit us where it hurts. No new engine in NCAA, but it's in Madden, no draft imports, no editing in Madden.. The list goes on. Whats the reasoning behind buying both this year? I, like others, either will not be buying this year, or will be buying when it's $20.

I'm glad we aren't getting the infinity engine this year. I would imagine it's going to be the most buggy thing we've seen in a Madden game yet. Let Madden players be the beta testers, and then port it over to NCAA with a lot of the kinks worked out. One of the games had to test it, and I tend to play NCAA more, so I'm overall glad it's Madden.

I don't blame the infinity engine on the lack of importing or roster editing though. That's all Connected Careers. I'm assuming both of those things are a 1 year deal though, as I just view CC as another beta test this year.

That's why I'm not purchasing Madden right away. I need to know exactly how much of a beta test it is first. But I feel comfortable buying NCAA right away because of the lack of those "beta" features.

[majesty95]

So much to say...

First, the casual gamer is the guy that picks up the game, plays it a few times with his buddies, maybe even a season or two but that's it. They don't dig deep into the game and dont notice much of what we notice.

I have several buddies like that. They buy Madden most years but I never hear them complain. Why? Because they are casual and for the most part the game does play like real football. The don't read defenses, they don't know what a realistic YPC looks like, they just want to throw the ball around and have some fun.

I'm exactly that same way with NBA 2k12. I pop in it and have fun. I like it but bc I don't play all the time and haven't played many of the previous iterations, I don't notice all the things people are bitching about in the forums and that's ok. There are plenty of people like that. Whether they are the minority or the majority is up for debate.

The other thing, to call someone you have never met lazy when you don't know everything behind the scenes is ignorant. Im assuming you havent met the devs and if you have give examples of what they did/said to lead you to believe they are inherently lazy.

I'm not here to make excuses for them and I wonder myself why they didn't update the menus and layout and OD website appearance. However, I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.

Do they have one guy that does all the web stuff? Does he just do the website or does he do all EA web related stuff. Was he working on another project? Do they need additional staff but aren't being given the funding for it? Those are all relevant questions.

How about gameplay. Why doesn't the option work? Why do defenders run away from the play? Why is there freezing? Is it because of a lack of resources to test and debug these things or a limitation from the game engine?

Are you sure they are not hitting an obstacle with the game engine that isn't allowing them to do what they want to implement? How thinly are they stretched engineer wise? Do they have enough bodies to do the things they want to do? If not, is it because they are not being allowed that in their budget?

Has anybody left? Was there a graphic person or engineer or designer that left during the cycle? Have they brought in new people that have had to learn the coding and have a learning curve?

I mean, there are so many things that could be the cause of what we are seeing.

Personally, most of it I attribute to an old game engine that is outdated and that was not built with enough foresight to allow the things we want to be implemented correctly. They are trying but may never be able to get it right until they get a new engine (Infinity could fix a lot).

I'm not making excuses for them. I hate that we need a patch or two every year. I wonder if they need more testers or better ones. I wonder why some things went backwards and why some things weren't addressed. But the simple fact is I don't know. And neither does 99.9% of us. So to call them lazy without having answers to most of those questions is beyond unreasonable.

Personally, I truly believe these guys take pride in this game and want it to be the best it can be. There is just something holding that back and we're probably never going to know for sure what that is so it's silly to speculate.

Tell them what you don't like, ask for what you want and if you don't like what your getting, show that by not buying the game. Everything else is kind of pointless.