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BezO · 10-16-2012, 11:01 AM

I thought the animations in 2K football looked good. I'm sure they'd be even better had they been producing games the past 7 years. 2K basketball's animations look great too without real time physics. Obviously the results wouldn't be infinite, but I think great things could be done with a high number of animations & trigger points.

I guess I'll appreciate RTP more as the tech improves, but for now, ehh. As slow as Madden seems to improve, who knows when they'll get it looking good, especially next generation.

CigarCityBandit · 10-16-2012, 01:07 PM

I think what bothers me about 2k13, and this may be what others who are very quiet but not totally enamored with 2k13 may also feel: This way of controlling, along with the canned animation heavy system in place makes me feel like Im playing a fighting game where I am triggering sets of animations and trying to time the next one at the perfect point when the first one is about to end etc. And this isn't inherently bad, its just that when I play games like NHL, FIFA and Madden that "Feel" like they use un-shackled controls I have a greater feeling of control and immersion than what 2k13 involves.
This is a difficult point to make given the fact that you can make the ballers in 2k do everything they can in a real game. Having said that though, I think NBA 2k13 went so canned animation heavy that it proves that the control scheme required to trigger all of these sequences becomes cumbersome and very unintuitive.
My guess is that this is the peak of what 2k can do here without bringing in RTP. I will tell you this, I would have NO interest in another edition of 2k basketball that delves even deeper into this Rabbit hole they have gone into. I know I am being blasphemous to most of you reading this but I am sure Im not the only one.
And to your point BezO... While 2k football looked and played great (it was my preferred football game) I have almost NO doubt in my mind that VC would have already used RTP in their football game had they been making one over the last 7 years. They were always cutting edge when it came to NFL football.
Then there is NBA Live...It's almost laughable that people have slammed EA for its NBA Live situation. Yeah its probably some poor in house management stuff but ultimately what they are trying to do could make 2k look dated, from a strictly game play standpoint. Not saying it will, just that if they iron out the physics enough to put out a quality playing game using mostly RTP...I will play that over canned animated ALL DAY LONG. The presentation aspects and depth of the total game with respect to career modes etc will all come. What I am interested in is the game play first and foremost.

miraiii · 10-16-2012, 01:31 PM

ive been tooting the "physics-horn" ever since i joined OS. The Morphing in NBA 2k13 (for example) really kills the game for me...it breaks the immersion...and when hand check fould are called with 0 contact...

but as important as physics are: animation must not be forgotten: If you compare, say Fifa13, to a real football broadcast the real thing just "flows" more naturally...there's a need for more "natural-inbetween" animations between two mocap animations...

finally: no so called "real time physics" engine is actually great at this point in time...even in Fifa13 the ball sometimes magically morphes through another players foot, when it was clears supposed to make contact with it...maybe next-gen will help solving this issue...

i read an article, maybe 5 years ago, i think it was an epic or crytek lead dev, who mentioned that photo-realism is not too far of...but realistic physics will take atleast 10 more years to come around...so maybe next gen will bring the revolution: regardless: current gen consoles need dying...and the need it badly for the industry to move on

cwash020 · 10-16-2012, 01:54 PM

This is my humble opinion, so feel free to disagree. But if I am asked to choose between APF gameplay with canned animations and Madden with real time physics - then I will take APF all day long. Listen, I have no allegiance to 2K, Sony, or EA. But at the end of the day I am a 30 plus father of two with a 9-5 job. So when I have time to play, I choose to play sports games that provide a huge fun factor AND a sense of realism. Madden 13 made strides with the Infinity Engine, but had significant issues with the CCM mode and on the field action to the point where it was only fun in bursts for me. And the simple fact is that when I pop APF back in my 360 it still does many things better than Madden 13 regardless of real time physics.

Props to NBA 2K for providing a very realistic game in terms of presentation and player differentiation. But outside of 2K11, this series has bored me to tears over the last 5-6 years. Part of that can be attributed to my lack of interest in the NBA compared to the late 80s/early 90s. Nevertheless, they are managing to get by without real time physics.

To me FIFA got it right this generation. They have some level of a real physics model, but managed to not to have as many wonky animations/bugs. And most importantly, it's still a very enjoyable game.

I think if these companies focus too much on physics they are going to lose sight of what makes a game fun and complete. (i.e. look at the quality of the graphics in Madden 12 vs. Madden 13, am I the only one who thinks they got worse with the Infinity Engine).

TheRealHST · 10-16-2012, 09:19 PM

I wish some of you would stop saying physics is technology. It is not. It is something that happens in your everyday life. If I push you, your reaction to me pushing you is physics, etc.

The fact remains that physics are needed period, otherwise you can no longer call a any of the sports games realistic without it, because by taking something that happens naturally in our everyday movements (and definitely in sports) out of sports than how is it realistic and whats the point?

I dont want to play a football game where physics arent respected and you continue to see morphing and guys falling forward when they were hit head on, or balls going thorught arms, etc, etc.

What is the main thing that gets complained about here on OS??? OFFENSIVE LINE PLAY. If you are one of the people who doesnt want physics in sports games yet wants improved O-Line, D-Line play than you might as well give up that crusade.

I didnt expect Backbreaker or Madden to get this thing right in the first year. Yes its buggy but it still does good in light of that. Its just amazing to me how people dont want something in a game that is cleary in everyday football that we watch. I thought the whole point was to achieve a game that was realistic? Animations dont happen in real life.

And why is there this notion that for some strange reason you cant have good gameplay and physics? Why is this farse being created? Im pretty sure someone can develop both, its not rocket science or a cure for AIDS, im pretty sure both can be implemented. sheesh....

OhioBuckeyes7 · 10-18-2012, 02:26 PM

Anyone Not wanting Real Time physics is the same cheep dudes i lose to in madden by using a cheep Nano Glitch blitz which is still in the game. Physics are needed. proof look at NCAA 13 they added Real Time Physics in NCaa and it works great. Madden did too and it works good. there is still a Nano glitch in madden but in 14 i expect it to be removed.

jahidtt · 11-17-2012, 10:31 AM

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11-17-2012, 10:31 AM	#15
jahidtt Just started! OVR: 0 Join Date: Nov 2012	Re: OS Fact or Fiction: Real Time Physics Edition WATCH ESPN TV!!Florida State vs Maryland Live Streaming Online PC TV Video Free,Florida State vs Maryland Live Match Highlights Also online, 2012 NCAA College Football Instant Streaming Internet TV Here, GivingFlorida State vs Maryland Satellite TV broadcast Online Today, Enjoy Florida State vs Maryland Live Online Video Coverage Right Now, Find National Football League Live Online HD TV Links, Must Watch NCAA Football Live Online Now, SEE Florida State vs Maryland Online TV Channels Here, [ ESP2-ESP3- WATCH ESPN TV!!Florida State vs Maryland Live Streaming Online PC TV Video Free,Florida State vs Maryland Live Match Highlights Also online, 2012 NCAA College Football Instant Streaming Internet TV Here, GivingFlorida State vs Maryland Satellite TV broadcast Online Today, Enjoy Florida State vs Maryland Live Online Video Coverage Right Now, Find National Football League Live Online HD TV Links, Must Watch NCAA Football Live Online Now, SEE Florida State vs Maryland Online TV Channels Here, [ ESP2-ESP3-

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10-16-2012, 11:01 AM	#9
BezO MVP OVR: 20 Join Date: Jul 2004	I thought the animations in 2K football looked good. I'm sure they'd be even better had they been producing games the past 7 years. 2K basketball's animations look great too without real time physics. Obviously the results wouldn't be infinite, but I think great things could be done with a high number of animations & trigger points. I guess I'll appreciate RTP more as the tech improves, but for now, ehh. As slow as Madden seems to improve, who knows when they'll get it looking good, especially next generation.

10-16-2012, 01:07 PM	#10
CigarCityBandit Banned OVR: 3 Join Date: Aug 2011	I think what bothers me about 2k13, and this may be what others who are very quiet but not totally enamored with 2k13 may also feel: This way of controlling, along with the canned animation heavy system in place makes me feel like Im playing a fighting game where I am triggering sets of animations and trying to time the next one at the perfect point when the first one is about to end etc. And this isn't inherently bad, its just that when I play games like NHL, FIFA and Madden that "Feel" like they use un-shackled controls I have a greater feeling of control and immersion than what 2k13 involves. This is a difficult point to make given the fact that you can make the ballers in 2k do everything they can in a real game. Having said that though, I think NBA 2k13 went so canned animation heavy that it proves that the control scheme required to trigger all of these sequences becomes cumbersome and very unintuitive. My guess is that this is the peak of what 2k can do here without bringing in RTP. I will tell you this, I would have NO interest in another edition of 2k basketball that delves even deeper into this Rabbit hole they have gone into. I know I am being blasphemous to most of you reading this but I am sure Im not the only one. And to your point BezO... While 2k football looked and played great (it was my preferred football game) I have almost NO doubt in my mind that VC would have already used RTP in their football game had they been making one over the last 7 years. They were always cutting edge when it came to NFL football. Then there is NBA Live...It's almost laughable that people have slammed EA for its NBA Live situation. Yeah its probably some poor in house management stuff but ultimately what they are trying to do could make 2k look dated, from a strictly game play standpoint. Not saying it will, just that if they iron out the physics enough to put out a quality playing game using mostly RTP...I will play that over canned animated ALL DAY LONG. The presentation aspects and depth of the total game with respect to career modes etc will all come. What I am interested in is the game play first and foremost.

10-16-2012, 01:31 PM	#11
miraiii Rookie OVR: 0 Join Date: Oct 2010	ive been tooting the "physics-horn" ever since i joined OS. The Morphing in NBA 2k13 (for example) really kills the game for me...it breaks the immersion...and when hand check fould are called with 0 contact... but as important as physics are: animation must not be forgotten: If you compare, say Fifa13, to a real football broadcast the real thing just "flows" more naturally...there's a need for more "natural-inbetween" animations between two mocap animations... finally: no so called "real time physics" engine is actually great at this point in time...even in Fifa13 the ball sometimes magically morphes through another players foot, when it was clears supposed to make contact with it...maybe next-gen will help solving this issue... i read an article, maybe 5 years ago, i think it was an epic or crytek lead dev, who mentioned that photo-realism is not too far of...but realistic physics will take atleast 10 more years to come around...so maybe next gen will bring the revolution: regardless: current gen consoles need dying...and the need it badly for the industry to move on

10-16-2012, 01:54 PM	#12
cwash020 Rookie OVR: 15 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Blog Entries: 16	This is my humble opinion, so feel free to disagree. But if I am asked to choose between APF gameplay with canned animations and Madden with real time physics - then I will take APF all day long. Listen, I have no allegiance to 2K, Sony, or EA. But at the end of the day I am a 30 plus father of two with a 9-5 job. So when I have time to play, I choose to play sports games that provide a huge fun factor AND a sense of realism. Madden 13 made strides with the Infinity Engine, but had significant issues with the CCM mode and on the field action to the point where it was only fun in bursts for me. And the simple fact is that when I pop APF back in my 360 it still does many things better than Madden 13 regardless of real time physics. Props to NBA 2K for providing a very realistic game in terms of presentation and player differentiation. But outside of 2K11, this series has bored me to tears over the last 5-6 years. Part of that can be attributed to my lack of interest in the NBA compared to the late 80s/early 90s. Nevertheless, they are managing to get by without real time physics. To me FIFA got it right this generation. They have some level of a real physics model, but managed to not to have as many wonky animations/bugs. And most importantly, it's still a very enjoyable game. I think if these companies focus too much on physics they are going to lose sight of what makes a game fun and complete. (i.e. look at the quality of the graphics in Madden 12 vs. Madden 13, am I the only one who thinks they got worse with the Infinity Engine).

10-16-2012, 09:19 PM	#13
TheRealHST Banned OVR: 7 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pittsburgh Blog Entries: 4	I wish some of you would stop saying physics is technology. It is not. It is something that happens in your everyday life. If I push you, your reaction to me pushing you is physics, etc. The fact remains that physics are needed period, otherwise you can no longer call a any of the sports games realistic without it, because by taking something that happens naturally in our everyday movements (and definitely in sports) out of sports than how is it realistic and whats the point? I dont want to play a football game where physics arent respected and you continue to see morphing and guys falling forward when they were hit head on, or balls going thorught arms, etc, etc. What is the main thing that gets complained about here on OS??? OFFENSIVE LINE PLAY. If you are one of the people who doesnt want physics in sports games yet wants improved O-Line, D-Line play than you might as well give up that crusade. I didnt expect Backbreaker or Madden to get this thing right in the first year. Yes its buggy but it still does good in light of that. Its just amazing to me how people dont want something in a game that is cleary in everyday football that we watch. I thought the whole point was to achieve a game that was realistic? Animations dont happen in real life. And why is there this notion that for some strange reason you cant have good gameplay and physics? Why is this farse being created? Im pretty sure someone can develop both, its not rocket science or a cure for AIDS, im pretty sure both can be implemented. sheesh....

10-18-2012, 02:26 PM	#14
OhioBuckeyes7 Banned OVR: 0 Join Date: Jun 2012	Anyone Not wanting Real Time physics is the same cheep dudes i lose to in madden by using a cheep Nano Glitch blitz which is still in the game. Physics are needed. proof look at NCAA 13 they added Real Time Physics in NCaa and it works great. Madden did too and it works good. there is still a Nano glitch in madden but in 14 i expect it to be removed.

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OS Fact or Fiction: Real Time Physics Edition