Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

[Mike Lowe]

I know most of us are aware of it, but the AI's poor usage of their bullpen doesn't seem to be something discussed enough. It's perhaps the game's biggest flaw, simply because it's never received the proper attention in a patch or new game for what's been years now.

Here is what I just submitted to the Shownation bug report site.

Perhaps a healthy discussion will receive some attention, and we can also point out more specifics in the hopes of getting this fixed up:

https://youtu.be/MN4eGjp-Ncs?t=1h17m33s

If you watch the video above (time marked already), you'll see one example of the bullpen AI which truly taints an otherwise wonderful game (once we get carryover franchise patched up). The Pirates take a 2-run lead in the top of the 9th, yet never get their closer up to pitch. If you continue to watch the bottom of the 9th, the Tigers come back and score 3 on a Miguel Cabrera bases clearing 2B against the same exact pitcher the AI used in the 8th. This is with the manager hook slider at the default 5, and on HoF difficulty.


I love the Show, but this truly is bad bad bad. It ruins the experience, and it needs attention. The bullpen AI in this game is horendous--you never see situational matchups used correctly, and RP are typically only removed after they've done something bad. They repeatedly are pitching 1+ innings per appearance as if it were the mid-80's MLB.


Thanks for taking a look. I'm rooting for you all!

[Speedy]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

I constantly see the same guy that comes in the middle of an inning start the next inning off when the matchup should dictacte somebody else.

Good example was I playing against WAS and they brought in Oliver Perez to face a lefty...he got me out and the next half inning, he was pitching against a RHP when they were only up by 1 and it was the 8th.

I'd like to see some further matchup analysis done under the hood...maybe instead of a "setup guy" we could designate a 7th/8th/9th inning preferred pitcher.

[Mike Lowe]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

I stand correct on the closer part at least: Melancon is indeed their closer. But why was he brought in during the 8th inning of a tie game on the road then?!

[Smallville102001]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

This is really the only issue this game as. It to bad there is not a manager hook slider for bullpen pitchers to go with the one we do have. I guess if you change that slider in game once the CPU goes to the bullpen and also have the relief pitcher stamina slider low that can help some but not really fix this.

[Cman9]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

Yeah, cpu does a bad job as far as rightie/lefty matchups out of the pen.

[Don Jon]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

Yea...... I have to put the cpu reliever stamina slider on 1 because of this. I've had to do this almost every year playing the Show. Without it, (unless you chase the RP with runs) the cpu keeps its RP's in there for 2+ innings.

Thank you for bringing this issue to the main thread, its been underlying for a while.

[KBLover]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

I agree it could be better. I wouldn't to see a robotic adherence to vsL/vsR match ups, at least not until pitcher splits come in (otherwise it doesn't matter in terms of game play/results if the hitter is basically even vs both and risks the AI bringing in a worse pitcher just to get the handedness match-up).

I notice the CPU has no problems bringing in lefties when Davis and Harper are due up. My next hitter is a switch hitter who's good against both (less power vs LHP), then the next is another switch hitter who's even against both.

After that it's a couple RHB - but they, too, are even against both.

Unless the lefty is tiring or ineffective, it wouldn't make much sense to burn an arm for no match up advantage. Now if pitchers had vsL/vsR, then maybe it would a) be able to make even better decisions, and b) there's more places for match-up to actually matter.

I haven't seen the closer come in in the 8th. I've seen him start warming in the 8th but never enter the game.

The biggest gripe I have with the AI is removing/PH'ing for SP that are still very effective and not tired/at a high pitch count. Nothing like losing 2-0 in the 7th against an ace (or a guy pitching like one) only to face a crappy reliever (often times using match up - as if LHP/LHP will cover up the fact he has 55 H/9 and 45 BB/9...Harper is much lower vs LHP...but he can still hurt a guy like that...)

I'd rather the AI stick with the RHP that's been getting him out all night long, match-up disadvantage or not.

[ninertravel]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

the A1 managing BP is always pathetic they will bring a closer in the 9th NO MATTER WHAT if it's a close situation meaning if their CP is gased because he has pitched the last 3 days I just know I am gonna make a comeback the AI NEVER uses fatigue logic it keeps using score logic

I have to switch controller select screen to do the stupid CPU AI BP myself

[knich]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

In addition to what all of you have said, what I don't like is when the manager has a quick hook of the closer after he's given up a couple hits. I also love how the manager warms up pitchers when they bring in the closer in the beginning of the ninth. Rarely would you see a manager warm-up other pitchers when they're bringing in their closer.

[Steven78]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

The AI bullpen management has been terrible for years. It really is holding the game back imo.

[ninertravel]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

As I said the way to get around it is when you feel that the AI shouldn't be replacing a starter or you wanna control their BP to be realistic quickly pause the game (thankfully this year you can do that ANYTIME this time!! even after a strikeout!) go to select team and change to the other team, then quickly switch back after each out to stop the AI from hooking a starter, and simply make the changes if you want to, if the dumb AI want to bring in a Closer who has no energy I quickly hook him before he can even pitch by switching teams, in real life he would not be pitching no matter what after 3 days, at least thats how Joe manages the yankees!

[TattooedEvil]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

this is still going on this year? i have only touched Conquest Mode so i havent seen the BP issues yet but this is y i like the NL cuz its a little bit less dramatic since the pitcher might come up to bat which means a PH which means a pitch change where as the AL im sure u can see a RP for 3-4 innings cuz of the DH

[sportomatic75]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

I was hoping someone would start a thread like this. I notice this problem a lot and it bothers me

[Boss Rousseau]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

if you switch teams mid game doesn't it prevent you from getting the DD reward after the game?

[sportomatic75]

Re: Elephant in the Room: AI Bullpen Usage

In addition to what all of you have said, what I don't like is when the manager has a quick hook of the closer after he's given up a couple hits. I also love how the manager warms up pitchers when they bring in the closer in the beginning of the ninth. Rarely would you see a manager warm-up other pitchers when they're bringing in their closer.

I don't notice a lot of that happening. I do notice the starter staying in longer than he normally would especially after a bad outing