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Jonesy · 10-18-2009, 09:17 PM

Ok so the NFL / NCAA (we call it Gridiron) really didn't get much coverage in my country (Australia) untill recent years and we are getting quite a few HD NFL / College games each week and i'm really loving the sport. I thought with all of you guys being hardcore fans being in one place this would be a good spot to get some answers about different aspects of the sport. So off the top of my head i'll fire away with a few questions:

1. On defense i see they have 4-3, 3-4 formations, nickel, dime etc. Does this refer to how many players are standing up in the defensive line or further back?

2. Are there 'set plays' for different types of offense you are trying to defend? ie is the 4-3 to stop the run, dime to stop the pass and so on?

3. Is it true when an offensive player receives a pass or goes for a run the point is marked where they are stopped at the furtherest point they have gone down the field with forward momentum? (sorry that doesn't make more sense

) So if a running back starts running at the 30 yard line gets tackled at the 40 and is forced back 7 yards in the tackle it doesn't matter the ball is spotted at the 40?

4. What happens if a defensive team intercepts a two point conversion attempt? And what happens if they return it for a score at the other end?

5. When they bring out the chain to measure if its a first down where does the chain have to reach? Is it any part of the football or does it have to go past the full football to be considered a first down?

Anyone else who is unsure of any aspects of the sport please feel free to post here with your questions. It's a fantastic sport to watch and it's shame i didn't get a chance to play it growing up as i always like playing rougher sports like Rugby etc. I think i would have loved playing a defensive position like linebacker.

Any help you guys can give would be great appreciated.

jnofx · 10-18-2009, 10:10 PM

OK, so all these guys here will tell you how much more qualified they are to answer your questions than me (most of them are right

) But I can help out a little.....

1. Yes, this refers to how the guys are lined up, for example: a 4-3 means there are 4 downed linemen, 3 linebackers. 3-4 is just the opposite.

2. Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. But it is a bit of an over-simplification....

3. Yes, if the ball carrier reaches the 50 yard line, then during the tackle is pushed back to the 45, they would spot the ball at the 50 due to his forward progress. However, if the same guy takes it to the 50, gets pushed back to the 40, breaks the tackle, then makes it back to the 45 and gets tackled, he's down at the 45. His forward progress doesn't apply if he breaks free from the tackle.

4. An interception during a 2-point conversion basically goes down as an incomplete pass, no opportunity for the Defense to score. (at least in the NFL, rule may be different in College. You'll find that there are a few differences in these rules.)

5. If any part of the ball is past the chain, it's a First Down. Whether it's the whole ball, or just the tip. This is why the referee spot is important, because inches matter. Or centimeters, in your case. Also why you will occasionally see a coach challenge the spot of the ball.

Hope that helps.... So you guys call it Gridiron? So then when you say football, are you referring to soccer or rugby? We will occasionally call rugby "Australian-rules Football" but not that often. And on another note, it definitely seems like the NFL's efforts to gain international notoriety and fan-dom (like the NBA) is working. They should send you guys a game. They are playing a game in Wembley in England this year, they also did it last year. I also believe they played one in Mexico City the year before that.

CM Hooe · 10-18-2009, 10:15 PM

1 - 4-3 and 3-4 refer to the numbers of defensive linemen and linebackers on the field; 4-3 sets have four down linemen and three linebackers, while 3-4 sets have three linemen and four 'backers. I have no idea where the Nickel and Dime terms originated, but they refer to sets with five and six defensive backs respectively (4-3 and 3-4 sets both only have four DBs). Teams in recent times have created sets with more defensive backs (Quarter, Dollar) with seven and eight DBs. The 4-6 does not conform to this convention, however; it's a set with 4-3 personnel in a different alignment. Someone else would be better able to explain the differences between the 4-3 and 4-6 than myself, however.

2 - Sets with more defensive backs (i.e. Nickel, Dime, Quarter, Dollar) are typically designed to stop passing plays. Sets with more linemen and linebackers (4-3, 3-4) are more apt to stop running plays. In addition, a common scheme in base sets (4-3, 3-4) involves walking one of the eight defensive backs closer to the line of scrimmage; this defender is called the "eighth man in the box". Teams typically do this against opponents with: A) strong running attacks, to help in run defense; B) weak passing attacks, as that extra defender can be risked; or C) both.

3 - What you are referring to is a concept known as "forward progress", and yes in the NFL if a runner is met by a defender at midfield and then tackled five yards backwards the ball is marked at midfield.

4 - In the NFL, a turnover by the offense (interception or lost fumble) on a two-point conversion ends the play. In the NCAA, however, a turnover may be returned by the defense and, if the defense reaches the opposite end zone, they score two points instead (and that team still receives the following kickoff).

5 - My understanding is that if any part of the football is meeting or past the post at the end of the measurement chains, a first down is awarded.

Hope this helps.

BurghFan · 10-18-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnofx


	4. An interception during a 2-point conversion basically goes down as an incomplete pass, no opportunity for the Defense to score. (at least in the NFL, rule may be different in College. You'll find that there are a few differences in these rules.) 5. If any part of the ball is past the chain, it's a First Down. Whether it's the whole ball, or just the tip. This is why the referee spot is important, because inches matter. Or centimeters, in your case. Also why you will occasionally see a coach challenge the spot of the ball.

4. If a 2 point conversion is intercepted by the defense, it can be returned for a defensive 2 pit conversion at least in the college game. In fact, just such an occurrence happened in the Ohio St. vs. Navy game earlier this year.

5. Funny this question should be brought up. If anyone was watching the Steelers vs. Browns game this afternoon, towards the end of the 1st half the Steelers went for it on 4th and short from the Browns 17 (Why I don't know) and appeared to be stopped show. Well, they borught out the chains to measure and the tip of the ball was at the end of the chain but not quite reaching the post so the announcers said they were short, but the refs gave them the 1st down. The Browns coach was quite livid and the announcers were asking if the ball has to be to the post or just to the end of the chain to be a 1st down. I always thought it had to be to the post.

Jonesy · 10-18-2009, 11:14 PM

Holy crap thanks for the great replies guys!!!

I think the clarification of the different defensive scheme's was puzzling me the most so those answers have helped tremendously with that (especially Krioniq's post thanks man). That is interesting about the interpretation of the chain/post ruling Burghfan i may have to go search for the 'official' ruling.

To Jnofx: What we call football seems to vary depending on where in Australia you are from. For most of the ethnic groups in the larger cities soccer always has and always will be considered "football". For the southern states most people who say football are referring to Aussie Rules which is hugely popular here and is basically only primarily played in Australia with a hybrid version called Gaelic football existing in Ireland / some parts of Europe. Up where I am from in the north the term football is usually reserved for Rugby League or Rugby Union which are similar/the same as the Rugby American colleges are playing.

I think the main obstacle to Gridiron catching on globally would be the sheer amount of equipment you need (padding etc) to play the game. I think many schools here would probably be keen to try it out if it wasn't so expensive to get set up for.

One more question: Do teams usually have 3 totally seperate squads (offensive, defensive and special teams) or do they mix and match? To me an offensive lineman seems pretty similar to a defensive lineman (ie huge dudes who smash into each other protecting / trying to tackle the QB each position) so do people play both or are they more specialised positions?

Just quickly how many years to college players have to stay in college for before they can jump to the pro's (is it like the nba's one and done rule)?

Also seeing as i have no allegiances to any particulary team who is a good team to support?

Chip Douglass · 10-18-2009, 11:25 PM

Question I posed in the Pats/Titans thread:

What's the biggest regression in record from one season to the next in NFL history?

CM Hooe · 10-18-2009, 11:28 PM

Support the Dallas Cowboys.

Seriously though, to your remaining questions:

- Teams typically do separate players into three groups: offense, defense, and special teams. For the most part, players only play offense or defense. Special teams players, such as kick returners, punt returners, blockers on field goals and punts, and kickoff coverage players, often are reserves from the offense and defense; notable exceptions to this are the kicker, punter, and long snapper (guy who hikes the ball on field goals and punts); these players' sole duties are to kick, punt, and long-snap. On rare occasion, guys will play on both offense and defense; typically, this is either a large defensive lineman being used as an extra blocker, or a fast defensive back being used as a speedy receiving option on offensive passing plays.

-Individuals aspiring to enter the NFL Draft must be at least three years removed from high school to enter the draft. That means that redshirt sophomores and true juniors are the youngest (by collegiate eligibility) players that can enter the draft. Typically, draft classes are made up of recently-graduated seniors, however.

SkinsFan4Life · 10-20-2009, 01:49 AM

In the pre-modern era of football, players often played two ways (offense and defense) and even all three, offense, defense, and special teams. Nowadays, people play offense OR defense. Special teams players are comprised of defensive starters and backups and offensive starters and backups.

Chicago Bears wide receiver Devin Hester entered the league as a kick returner and punt returner (special teams). He was amazing, broke a few returning records and has since been convereted into a wide receiver, who no longer returns kicks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonesy


	Also seeing as i have no allegiances to any particulary team who is a good team to support?

Not the Dallas Cowboys

10-18-2009, 09:17 PM	#1
Jonesy All Star OVR: 27 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 5,385	NFL for noobs thread Ok so the NFL / NCAA (we call it Gridiron) really didn't get much coverage in my country (Australia) untill recent years and we are getting quite a few HD NFL / College games each week and i'm really loving the sport. I thought with all of you guys being hardcore fans being in one place this would be a good spot to get some answers about different aspects of the sport. So off the top of my head i'll fire away with a few questions: 1. On defense i see they have 4-3, 3-4 formations, nickel, dime etc. Does this refer to how many players are standing up in the defensive line or further back? 2. Are there 'set plays' for different types of offense you are trying to defend? ie is the 4-3 to stop the run, dime to stop the pass and so on? 3. Is it true when an offensive player receives a pass or goes for a run the point is marked where they are stopped at the furtherest point they have gone down the field with forward momentum? (sorry that doesn't make more sense ) So if a running back starts running at the 30 yard line gets tackled at the 40 and is forced back 7 yards in the tackle it doesn't matter the ball is spotted at the 40? 4. What happens if a defensive team intercepts a two point conversion attempt? And what happens if they return it for a score at the other end? 5. When they bring out the chain to measure if its a first down where does the chain have to reach? Is it any part of the football or does it have to go past the full football to be considered a first down? Anyone else who is unsure of any aspects of the sport please feel free to post here with your questions. It's a fantastic sport to watch and it's shame i didn't get a chance to play it growing up as i always like playing rougher sports like Rugby etc. I think i would have loved playing a defensive position like linebacker. Any help you guys can give would be great appreciated.

10-18-2009, 10:10 PM	#2
jnofx My Head Hurts OVR: 11 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Alaska Posts: 978	Re: NFL for noobs thread OK, so all these guys here will tell you how much more qualified they are to answer your questions than me (most of them are right ) But I can help out a little..... 1. Yes, this refers to how the guys are lined up, for example: a 4-3 means there are 4 downed linemen, 3 linebackers. 3-4 is just the opposite. 2. Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. But it is a bit of an over-simplification.... 3. Yes, if the ball carrier reaches the 50 yard line, then during the tackle is pushed back to the 45, they would spot the ball at the 50 due to his forward progress. However, if the same guy takes it to the 50, gets pushed back to the 40, breaks the tackle, then makes it back to the 45 and gets tackled, he's down at the 45. His forward progress doesn't apply if he breaks free from the tackle. 4. An interception during a 2-point conversion basically goes down as an incomplete pass, no opportunity for the Defense to score. (at least in the NFL, rule may be different in College. You'll find that there are a few differences in these rules.) 5. If any part of the ball is past the chain, it's a First Down. Whether it's the whole ball, or just the tip. This is why the referee spot is important, because inches matter. Or centimeters, in your case. Also why you will occasionally see a coach challenge the spot of the ball. Hope that helps.... So you guys call it Gridiron? So then when you say football, are you referring to soccer or rugby? We will occasionally call rugby "Australian-rules Football" but not that often. And on another note, it definitely seems like the NFL's efforts to gain international notoriety and fan-dom (like the NBA) is working. They should send you guys a game. They are playing a game in Wembley in England this year, they also did it last year. I also believe they played one in Mexico City the year before that.

10-18-2009, 10:15 PM	#3
CM Hooe Dead! OVR: 45 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Culver City, CA Posts: 20,963	Re: NFL for noobs thread 1 - 4-3 and 3-4 refer to the numbers of defensive linemen and linebackers on the field; 4-3 sets have four down linemen and three linebackers, while 3-4 sets have three linemen and four 'backers. I have no idea where the Nickel and Dime terms originated, but they refer to sets with five and six defensive backs respectively (4-3 and 3-4 sets both only have four DBs). Teams in recent times have created sets with more defensive backs (Quarter, Dollar) with seven and eight DBs. The 4-6 does not conform to this convention, however; it's a set with 4-3 personnel in a different alignment. Someone else would be better able to explain the differences between the 4-3 and 4-6 than myself, however. 2 - Sets with more defensive backs (i.e. Nickel, Dime, Quarter, Dollar) are typically designed to stop passing plays. Sets with more linemen and linebackers (4-3, 3-4) are more apt to stop running plays. In addition, a common scheme in base sets (4-3, 3-4) involves walking one of the eight defensive backs closer to the line of scrimmage; this defender is called the "eighth man in the box". Teams typically do this against opponents with: A) strong running attacks, to help in run defense; B) weak passing attacks, as that extra defender can be risked; or C) both. 3 - What you are referring to is a concept known as "forward progress", and yes in the NFL if a runner is met by a defender at midfield and then tackled five yards backwards the ball is marked at midfield. 4 - In the NFL, a turnover by the offense (interception or lost fumble) on a two-point conversion ends the play. In the NCAA, however, a turnover may be returned by the defense and, if the defense reaches the opposite end zone, they score two points instead (and that team still receives the following kickoff). 5 - My understanding is that if any part of the football is meeting or past the post at the end of the measurement chains, a first down is awarded. Hope this helps.

10-18-2009, 11:14 PM	#5
Jonesy All Star OVR: 27 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 5,385	Re: NFL for noobs thread Holy crap thanks for the great replies guys!!! I think the clarification of the different defensive scheme's was puzzling me the most so those answers have helped tremendously with that (especially Krioniq's post thanks man). That is interesting about the interpretation of the chain/post ruling Burghfan i may have to go search for the 'official' ruling. To Jnofx: What we call football seems to vary depending on where in Australia you are from. For most of the ethnic groups in the larger cities soccer always has and always will be considered "football". For the southern states most people who say football are referring to Aussie Rules which is hugely popular here and is basically only primarily played in Australia with a hybrid version called Gaelic football existing in Ireland / some parts of Europe. Up where I am from in the north the term football is usually reserved for Rugby League or Rugby Union which are similar/the same as the Rugby American colleges are playing. I think the main obstacle to Gridiron catching on globally would be the sheer amount of equipment you need (padding etc) to play the game. I think many schools here would probably be keen to try it out if it wasn't so expensive to get set up for. One more question: Do teams usually have 3 totally seperate squads (offensive, defensive and special teams) or do they mix and match? To me an offensive lineman seems pretty similar to a defensive lineman (ie huge dudes who smash into each other protecting / trying to tackle the QB each position) so do people play both or are they more specialised positions? Just quickly how many years to college players have to stay in college for before they can jump to the pro's (is it like the nba's one and done rule)? Also seeing as i have no allegiances to any particulary team who is a good team to support?

10-18-2009, 11:25 PM	#6
Chip Douglass Hall Of Fame OVR: 23 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: California Posts: 12,264	Re: NFL for noobs thread Question I posed in the Pats/Titans thread: What's the biggest regression in record from one season to the next in NFL history? __________________ I write things on the Internet.

	MLB The Show 24 Review: Another Solid Hit for the Series
	New Star GP Review: Old-School Arcade Fun
	Where Are Our College Basketball Video Game Rumors?

10-18-2009, 11:28 PM	#7
CM Hooe Dead! OVR: 45 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Culver City, CA Posts: 20,963	Re: NFL for noobs thread Support the Dallas Cowboys. Seriously though, to your remaining questions: - Teams typically do separate players into three groups: offense, defense, and special teams. For the most part, players only play offense or defense. Special teams players, such as kick returners, punt returners, blockers on field goals and punts, and kickoff coverage players, often are reserves from the offense and defense; notable exceptions to this are the kicker, punter, and long snapper (guy who hikes the ball on field goals and punts); these players' sole duties are to kick, punt, and long-snap. On rare occasion, guys will play on both offense and defense; typically, this is either a large defensive lineman being used as an extra blocker, or a fast defensive back being used as a speedy receiving option on offensive passing plays. -Individuals aspiring to enter the NFL Draft must be at least three years removed from high school to enter the draft. That means that redshirt sophomores and true juniors are the youngest (by collegiate eligibility) players that can enter the draft. Typically, draft classes are made up of recently-graduated seniors, however.

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