Did the Colts Mishandle Having Manning as their QB?

[slickdtc]

Something I was just thinking about...

Did the Colts completely bungle having Peyton Manning as their QB for 11 seasons? They made 2 SB, winning 1. The Broncos have had a post neck surgery Manning for 4 seasons, including this year where he has clearly lost his arm (and even dating back to last season), but are going in to their 2nd SB with him.

We know the Colts built around Peyton. They already had Harrison, but added Wayne, Edge, and Dallas Clark. Marcus Pollard was pretty good and he had some good linemen in Jeff Saturday and Tarik Glenn. But did they screw up by not building a defense and letting Peyton make the players around him better instead of investing in offense? It's been well documented that when his defense stepped up, he won his only title.

The Broncos employed the build around Peyton strategy at first, but they seemed to have the foresight (or at least strategic thought) to add or draft and develop defensive players shortly thereafter. If they're to win SB 50, chances are it'll be on the strength of their defense.

There are many other factors at play here (Patriots & Steelers, for example), but I can't help but wonder if the Colts missed out on at least another SB and possibly a couple more appearances if they had invested in their defense or were able to develop more players there.

[ggsimmonds]

I think so yes.

Seems like while other teams were improving year to year, the Colts largely stood pat once they had their core.

On the other hand, many of Denver's current key players preceded Peyton's arrival. Its not a equal comparison because Peyton went to Denver as a FA.

We also need to consider the mindset and approach of the two teams. Denver is cashing everything because they are in win now mode. Yes they are playing in their second SB over the past few seasons, but some would say they sacrificed their future to do so. Indy on the other hand was trying to build for the long term.

[Feared]

I don't fault the Colts for parting from Manning when they did, he was coming off a major Neck surgery and it was clear they were going to have their choice of taking Andrew Luck.

I think their Front office/scouting failed to maximize the team they built around him pre-injury. Outside of Mathis/Freeney they never really had any "impact" Defenders. Bob Sanders was a big hitter but was exposed in coverage, and I can't really think of any Colts Defenders from that era outside of Bethea who was pretty underrated.

I think Manning was fortunate that he ended up on a team where they already had a strong Defense in place which they further bolstered with top flight Free agent signings (Ware, Talib) strong receivers, a decent running game, and O-line. So it was more Manning lucked into playing out the last years of his career on a very strong team, I think if he stays on the Colts they are a borderline play off team, relying on his diminished ability and they probably still miss out on the play off this year with him at QB. (Colts hypothetically)

[SPTO]

Well "bungle" and "screw up" are rather harsh terms to throw around. I think the Colts got caught up in the same kind of situation that the Dolphins did with Marino. Pre-Marino, Don Shula was a more run based coach or at the very least it'd be quite balanced. His team would be predicated on being solid in every phase of the game but when Marino asserted himself the run game became invisible or very inconsistent at best. The defensive side of the ball at least was strong for a couple years into Marino's tenure (that '84 team that killed everybody also had a very solid defense) but soon became very inconsistent over the years. Like with Marino's Dolphins the Colts were enamored by Peyton's gifts and decided that the best option would be to ride his arm and build an offense around him. It wasn't the worst idea in the world as the AFC didn't have the most gifted defensive teams when Manning was starting to become a top flight talent but by the time he was taking his Colts teams into the playoffs we saw the emergence of solid teams in all phases with the Pats, Steelers and Ravens. It was clear that the "build around offense" plan was more of a myopic way of building the team rather than building up the defense.

So in short, if they had to do it again I think Polian and Co. would see that some of the offensive talent they had could be interchangeable as long as Peyton was at his best and build a defense to help push the team further in the playoffs and towards the goal of winning a SB.

[Chip Douglass]

Quote: Originally Posted by slickdtc

There are many other factors at play here (Patriots & Steelers, for example), but I can't help but wonder if the Colts missed out on at least another SB and possibly a couple more appearances if they had invested in their defense or were able to develop more players there.

I think this is the nub of it.

Colts-era Manning in the playoffs played at Foxboro twice against the dynasty Patriots (lost both); Broncos' Manning in the playoffs played weaker New England teams at home twice (won both).

2005 14-2 Colts (arguably Peyton's best Indy team) had the misfortune of playing a really strong 11-5 Pittsburgh team in the divisional round that was much better than their record. 2015 Broncos played a Pittsburgh team in the divisional round that frankly limped into that game.

Quote:

But did they screw up by not building a defense and letting Peyton make the players around him better instead of investing in offense? It's been well documented that when his defense stepped up, he won his only title.

Building an elite defense is easier said than done. One great QB is pretty much sufficient to have a good offense, but you need lots of impact players to have a great defense.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by SPTO

Well "bungle" and "screw up" are rather harsh terms to throw around. I think the Colts got caught up in the same kind of situation that the Dolphins did with Marino. Pre-Marino, Don Shula was a more run based coach or at the very least it'd be quite balanced. His team would be predicated on being solid in every phase of the game but when Marino asserted himself the run game became invisible or very inconsistent at best. The defensive side of the ball at least was strong for a couple years into Marino's tenure (that '84 team that killed everybody also had a very solid defense) but soon became very inconsistent over the years. Like with Marino's Dolphins the Colts were enamored by Peyton's gifts and decided that the best option would be to ride his arm and build an offense around him. It wasn't the worst idea in the world as the AFC didn't have the most gifted defensive teams when Manning was starting to become a top flight talent but by the time he was taking his Colts teams into the playoffs we saw the emergence of solid teams in all phases with the Pats, Steelers and Ravens. It was clear that the "build around offense" plan was more of a myopic way of building the team rather than building up the defense. So in short, if they had to do it again I think Polian and Co. would see that some of the offensive talent they had could be interchangeable as long as Peyton was at his best and build a defense to help push the team further in the playoffs and towards the goal of winning a SB.

This is one of those rare occasions when we actually get to see what they'd do if they could do it all over again... and they've done the same damn thing!

I mean I agree, it can take time to build up a defense but they're STILL not even trying. I would say it's just the luck of how things fell for Manning in Indy, but the way they're drafting and signing players around Luck, they definitely deserve some blame.

[SPTO]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

This is one of those rare occasions when we actually get to see what they'd do if they could do it all over again... and they've done the same damn thing! I mean I agree, it can take time to build up a defense but they're STILL not even trying. I would say it's just the luck of how things fell for Manning in Indy, but the way they're drafting and signing players around Luck, they definitely deserve some blame.

Agreed 100%

What they're doing with Luck is criminal.

[jeremym480]

The thread title should read: "Did the Colts blow the Peyton Manning era?"