Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

[PhantomLord]

Hi all,

I have an interest in NBA 2K18, but I had a very, very big issue with last year's game, which I'll link to here for those who don't remember or didn't see it.

http://forums.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-basketball/892095-nba-fifa-if-goalies-randomly-ran-away-net-let-you-score.html

Basically, I'm wondering, if you are playing vs. the AI, is defense still flat-out broken? There were workarounds last year, adjusting all sorts of tendencies and ACE settings, but the base game was broken against the AI. As you'll see from the title of the thread I linked, I likened to it if it were FIFA, and goalies just ran out of the net to let shots get in. The videos linked in the above thread will perfectly demonstrate what I'm referring to.

If this is fixed, this game will absolutely be worth getting for me. Prior to 2K17, I loved and played the holy crap out of every 2K game for years. Last year, I couldn't play the game. I'm a sim gamer, offline player, and franchise mode was no fun when my defense would literally run away from their men to let them get wide open shots. From what I could tell from talking to people throughout the game cycle, the problem never really got fixed with patches, which means I barely touched the game (tested a few random times to see if it was better) in the last six months or so.

I know it's early with the new game, but any thoughts on this? Any of the guys from that thread giving 2K18 a chance and want to weigh in?

I'm not bashing the game. There was a TON to like about 2K17. I just couldn't personally play it due to my frustrations with these issues. This new game looks fantastic, but I HAVE to know if this is better.

Thanks!

[3ShowTime2]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Much improved.

[WTF]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Are you talking about this:

https://twitter.com/WTF_OS/status/909057788764180486

If so, sad to say, it's still there. I've seen it NUMEROUS times already, along with some other legacy items I won't go into. But if this type of stuff aggravates you like it aggravates me, it's still there, and prevalent, especially during cpu runs.

[PhantomLord]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Are you talking about this:

https://twitter.com/WTF_OS/status/909057788764180486

If so, sad to say, it's still there. I've seen it NUMEROUS times already, along with some other legacy items I won't go into. But if this type of stuff aggravates you like it aggravates me, it's still there, and prevalent, especially during cpu runs.

Ouch. Ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch. Not good.

I was more talking about this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fnJXemPP2c. Defenders literally just running away from their man to leave them wide open. Also a problem was players literally locking you into an animation and shoving you all the way down the court.

This is bad though. I don't think as egregiously bad, but it's bad.

[WTF]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Yeah, that's still there as well. I'm trying to live with it, but it's rough.

There's so much I love about the game, and the presentation, commentary, graphics, strategic options... everything. But when things like this rear their head, it kills the game.

[PhantomLord]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Yeah, that's still there as well. I'm trying to live with it, but it's rough.

There's so much I love about the game, and the presentation, commentary, graphics, strategic options... everything. But when things like this rear their head, it kills the game.

Argh. That's a no-go for me, then. I'm not spending money on a game that is fundamentally broken out of the box. And to me, 2K17 was fundamentally broken on defense... and this tells me 18 is too. Even if it's just a few times a game, it's a few times a game too many for my tastes.

If you get any video of the defenders running away or shoving a guy in a locked animation, I'd love to see 'em.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Hi all,

I have an interest in NBA 2K18, but I had a very, very big issue with last year's game, which I'll link to here for those who don't remember or didn't see it.

http://forums.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-basketball/892095-nba-fifa-if-goalies-randomly-ran-away-net-let-you-score.html

Spoiler

Basically, I'm wondering, if you are playing vs. the AI, is defense still flat-out broken? There were workarounds last year, adjusting all sorts of tendencies and ACE settings, but the base game was broken against the AI. As you'll see from the title of the thread I linked, I likened to it if it were FIFA, and goalies just ran out of the net to let shots get in. The videos linked in the above thread will perfectly demonstrate what I'm referring to.

If this is fixed, this game will absolutely be worth getting for me. Prior to 2K17, I loved and played the holy crap out of every 2K game for years. Last year, I couldn't play the game. I'm a sim gamer, offline player, and franchise mode was no fun when my defense would literally run away from their men to let them get wide open shots. From what I could tell from talking to people throughout the game cycle, the problem never really got fixed with patches, which means I barely touched the game (tested a few random times to see if it was better) in the last six months or so.

I know it's early with the new game, but any thoughts on this? Any of the guys from that thread giving 2K18 a chance and want to weigh in?

I'm not bashing the game. There was a TON to like about 2K17. I just couldn't personally play it due to my frustrations with these issues. This new game looks fantastic, but I HAVE to know if this is better.

Thanks!

EDIT: Regardless of the concerning issues, I will still try to enjoy 2k18 for the entire year, but I will take notes of the defensive concerns.

Note: I only play on Hall of Fame, default sliders.

Click spoiler tag for more information.

Spoiler

If I were in your position, if one incident is one too many, then honestly I would save your money and wait til next year. But if you want to still play 2k basketball, 2k18 is definitely an upgrade from 2k17 with respect to gameplay. It's a more challenging affair. As someone who has never ever played on HOF in any prior 2k with the exception with 2k16, 2k17 was incredibly easy on HOF.

Obviously that's the early honeymoon impression. Let's see how long the marriage last. Will anyone file divorce or annulment papers and when.

But, I would definitely monitor any issues you see from any threads about defensive awareness. This is the start of the 2k season where I will be more conscious of the defensive concerns. Operationsport's user, Kushmir, started a thread about long outlet passes that was concerning to him and others this year, but the problem have still remains with 2k18 hall of fame.

http://forums.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-basketball/915346-i-spammed-long-pass-prelude-here-results.html

There are improvements, but the fundamental flaws are still present and it's not going to change unless 2k decides to revamp the way they code their defense including their transitional defense. And it is the transitional defense that tells a great deal about why defensive awareness issues in general are still present and will still be present. The gist of it is that defensive players are strictly programmed to find their "spots" on the floor first and foremost rather than truly using artificial intelligence to read the offense, which is why you see players running away from certain areas then immediately trying to find the man they were suppose to pick up.

If you simply analyze any defensive transitional sequence after a made or miss bucket, the concerns should immediately be apparent. I will be drafting something up to supplement my existing posts in the above (long pass) thread.

Note, I have seen this particular Kevin Durant running towards the perimeter once in the games I have played since released date. I was playing on ball defense at the time.
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/f1HEMHHNVEo" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>


<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NOVuGka8SfU" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

In addition to those concerns, a new concern purposely implemented into the game is what's referred to the "Otto Porter Scenario" where one perimeter shooter is left wide open in the corner during certain times through a game. The concept is understandably commendable but the execution is relatively questionable. The idea is that Otto Porter leaves a wide open shooter that has no business of taking a three point shot because they have an incredibly low 3 point success rate or doesn't ever shoot 3's.

Otto Porter Scenario

http://forums.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-basketball/915422-nba-2k18-otto-porter-scenario-wide-open-3-point-shots-should-we-concerned.html

Spoiler

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IrAKJ8I1Cc0" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

We say it was too early to judge from the Prelude and it is always too early to simply judge a game's merit based solely on a demo where the difficulty level is tame. I still had a bad feeling about the retail version. When I see Klay Thompson being left open for a wide open three pointer, that can be a concerning moment.



The Take Away: With all the mumbo jumbo up top, it is the transitional defense that tells a great deal about why defensive awareness issues in general are still present and will still be present. If you want to determine if 2k19 and future 2k versions will be for you, watch the transitional defensive awareness. When the transitional defensive coding gets revamp, then you should have much less worries about overall defensive awareness. Until then, the decision ultimately comes down to how much you can ingest.

2k18 Hall of Fame default slider. Transitional defensive awareness. The following were some of the successful ones during the first quarter. Obviously, yes, there are some that weren't successful, but the fundamental way transitional defense is programmed cause defensive awareness persistent concerns. I don't actually play like this. Just did it as a test. I play on broadcast camera.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/w6go8MlS34k" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[Hengist]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Argh. That's a no-go for me, then. I'm not spending money on a game that is fundamentally broken out of the box. And to me, 2K17 was fundamentally broken on defense... and this tells me 18 is too. Even if it's just a few times a game, it's a few times a game too many for my tastes.

If you get any video of the defenders running away or shoving a guy in a locked animation, I'd love to see 'em.

Let me temper expectations some. That glitchy absentee defense stuff happens with a LOT less frequency in this game. I've played 14 games now and I absolutely vouch for it. So long as you don't expect perfection, you will feel the difference. I think you should buy this game.

[engrishbwudd]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Let me temper expectations some. That glitchy absentee defense stuff happens with a LOT less frequency in this game. I've played 14 games now and I absolutely vouch for it. So long as you don't expect perfection, you will feel the difference. I think you should buy this game.

It happens pretty infrequently, and even then some of it can be attributed to the fact that I'm playing as the Knicks. It can be frustrating, but it frustrates me when it happens to the actual Nuggets, which is a lot. Game is great.

[PhantomLord]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Anyone else have thoughts on this now that we're a week out from early release?

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Anyone else have thoughts on this now that we're a week out from early release?

Someone did post something else about the defense simply running away from a perimeter shooter, leaving him open. There continues to be still be 2k legacy issues (I wrote about one legacy issues in the following thread. Read it to see why the 2k transition defense still has issues).

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-basketball/916524-ai-defense-sometimes-getting-lost-help-defense-no-reason.html

It's really going to come down to how much you can overlook this while playing the game. Even with those legacy concerns, I'm still having a pretty good time with 2k18. Just know that it happens, but not always.

In my honeymoon phase with the game, I feel like it's an upgrade over 2k17. I strictly play on broadcast camera, so that visually neutralizes some of the AI concerns, but they will rear their heads every now and now. It all comes down to how 2k codes the defense. In order for them to truly fix it, they would have to start by fixing the transition defense. If you strictly look at the transition defense, it shows a lot of flaws that may have carry over effect to half court defense.

[PhantomLord]

Re: Is defense improved, or is it still FIFA, if goalies ran away from shots?

Someone did post something else about the defense simply running away from a perimeter shooter, leaving him open. There continues to be still be 2k legacy issues (I wrote about one legacy issues in the following thread. Read it to see why the 2k transition defense still has issues).

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-basketball/916524-ai-defense-sometimes-getting-lost-help-defense-no-reason.html

It's really going to come down to how much you can overlook this while playing the game. Even with those legacy concerns, I'm still having a pretty good time with 2k18. Just know that it happens, but not always.

In my honeymoon phase with the game, I feel like it's an upgrade over 2k17. I strictly play on broadcast camera, so that visually neutralizes some of the AI concerns, but they will rear their heads every now and now. It all comes down to how 2k codes the defense. In order for them to truly fix it, they would have to start by fixing the transition defense. If you strictly look at the transition defense, it shows a lot of flaws that may have carry over effect to half court defense.

So I caved and got the game. After one game offline and one game online, I saw this problem happen once. Much improved. The computer jacked up 3s (the Nets shot 50 against me) mostly because my defense was slow rotating. But by slow, I mean a half step behind, not running away from their man. Since I'm the Bulls, I can sort of accept this as just bad defense, NOT broken programming.

One thing I will say is this - why on earth should we have to "overlook" broken programming to enjoy a game? That's RIDICULOUS. Something this fundamentally wrong shouldn't be in the game at all. Period.