EA should take some tips from The Show...

[BIGROC]

Cards on the table, I LOVE The Show. Diamond Dynasty is by far my favorite part of the game, and it's because it's so we'll laid out, with a few gripes (like the cost of certain cards in the marketplace). That being said, Madden (EA in general like MUT, FUT) Ultimate Team could use some of the paths already laid out by San Diego Studios.

This being the OS forum, I'm sure there's plenty of ppl who've been playing The Show, and Diamond Dynasty, but I'll recap briefly...

You create your team, completely. From uniforms, through what areas/modes to play through, and missions with clearly stated objectives. (Even if they're sometimes a bit much) but you're usually heavily rewarded for your efforts.

I enjoyed FIFA and FUT even though I'm a clear cut novice when it comes to who's who in soccer. With football, it's a much easier thing to digest and comprehend what players do, and who they are.

This last iteration of The Show (19) added a lot of modes throughout the game, and added a little more to the DD mode to deepen it. When I fired up my ultimate superstar edition of Madden 20 I was hoping they cut down on some of the arbitrary things in the MUT mode, and deepen it in certain areas. After opening my packs, and adding a few other packs, I got my team together and was rated at 78 to start with.

When I began to play through the new way to progress through parts of the challenges and got cards there too, I noticed how many different times I needed to upgrade the cards, again... This really sours me because if I wanted to spend half the time in menus, I'd be ordering Chinese food, not trying to upgrade players who are bottomed out and need to be built up. With the cards in DD, if I get Gleyber Torres, his rating will adjust based on his play in real life. Sure there are other versions of Torres, like his players of the month card that had him go diamond.

With ultimate team in Madden I've got to get training points, cards that are worthless that will, if I collect enough, will spit out a player (or group of players) to choose that I have no interest in. Instead of mindlessly going from menu to menu and trying to upgrade a player who should be rated between 85-90 off the bat he's a 72. It's such a time suck.

I know it's simply a different sport, and if I don't like how they do it I should just not play that mode... Or that's what I'll be told by someone... But all I'm asking for is to cut some off the fat that's in there to get to the meat. It doesn't have to lessen the amount from the microtransactions for EA, cause I know SDS got 100 bucks out of me for the game, and probably another hundred for stubs. (Maybe a bit more). But I feel like that money went into a mode that I absolutely love and will be playing well past January. I've played almost 1000 games in The Show, almost 90% in DD.

Aside that there's no actual stats in a sports game blows my mind (like profile statistics) EA should really separate the wheat from the chaff and streamline ultimate team more. Make it fun to mess around with lineups, to try something new, without needing to find a specific playbook for offense and defense just to find plays you want to run... To make the players the star of the game, and not throw so much arbitrary crap in there so you have to wade through it in order to get to the good things.

So far I've been enjoying the actual gameplay... It needs some tweaking, but they've done a good job in that respect. I just wish it would trickle down to MUT... I'm a bit surprised at the lack of different modes. It sort of glaring after seeing how much was added to The Show, or modes that were there were added to. Something as simple as the conquest mode was made better simply because they added different maps instead of the same one they'd been using for 3 years.

Madden is sometimes it's own worst enemy, maybe because it's more of an institution than a game franchise at this point. I still remember playing on Sega Genesis when it had 12 or 16 teams, no names or stats... They don't need to recreate the wheel... But a few more spokes would help...

[BL8001]

Well written and good points.

Also in terms of cards the 84-85 rated Superstar cards are the best value.

The wtf part is why don't EA put any "built-in" abilities or x-factors on other cards?


It''s just weird when your 84 rated Superstar HB who has an x-factor and abilities is so so much better than an 85 to 89 rated HB who has none.

Another example would be the 90 ovr Jerry Rice card, a great card sure. But jeez spend 50k and get the Superstar Alshon because once you get his x-factor going he is unstoppable on slant patterns.

It just feels stupid that you can buy or snag a legend or flashback card or anything else superior at face value to the Superstar cards but they are not.


Secondly, training points are scarce. Other than quick selling cards there are not many other ways to earn them.

Then you need so so much to level up a player and apply abilities and x-factors. So you can grind all that out and quick sell your cards or just go buy a superstar card.

There is a smaller amount of cards in this game compared to other UT modes so you think they could get the balance better. You look at that 86 Mayfield card you can get and he is pretty crappy when you use him, if you can get the 90 mahomes he is damn near perfection.
Should there be that much of a gap between an 86 and a 90?

Like you wrote about creating your unis in DD. Look at solo battles in Madden. WTF? There are created unis in there, I have played teams that looked like Wyoming or Florida A&M, so why can't we create our unis in MUT?

Also EA needs to hook up with topps or something and get those card designs in the game because a lot of these cards in MUT are pretty shabby looking. Eye candy goes a long way in UT modes and if you had some sweet looking cards you are going to make even more money.

[BIGROC]

Quote: Originally Posted by BL8001

Well written and good points. Also in terms of cards the 84-85 rated Superstar cards are the best value. The wtf part is why don't EA put any "built-in" abilities or x-factors on other cards? It''s just weird when your 84 rated Superstar HB who has an x-factor and abilities is so so much better than an 85 to 89 rated HB who has none. Another example would be the 90 ovr Jerry Rice card, a great card sure. But jeez spend 50k and get the Superstar Alshon because once you get his x-factor going he is unstoppable on slant patterns. It just feels stupid that you can buy or snag a legend or flashback card or anything else superior at face value to the Superstar cards but they are not. Secondly, training points are scarce. Other than quick selling cards there are not many other ways to earn them. Then you need so so much to level up a player and apply abilities and x-factors. So you can grind all that out and quick sell your cards or just go buy a superstar card. There is a smaller amount of cards in this game compared to other UT modes so you think they could get the balance better. You look at that 86 Mayfield card you can get and he is pretty crappy when you use him, if you can get the 90 mahomes he is damn near perfection. Should there be that much of a gap between an 86 and a 90? Like you wrote about creating your unis in DD. Look at solo battles in Madden. WTF? There are created unis in there, I have played teams that looked like Wyoming or Florida A&M, so why can't we create our unis in MUT? Also EA needs to hook up with topps or something and get those card designs in the game because a lot of these cards in MUT are pretty shabby looking. Eye candy goes a long way in UT modes and if you had some sweet looking cards you are going to make even more money.

That's one thing I forgot to mention. The cards collected. I get all different ways of ******** when I see the 86 Topps Mattingly card, or the 87 Topps Andre Dawson. Cards I still own, but remembering them from when I was a kid is such a thrill just for the nostalgia.

No clue (especially with EA) why they wouldn't get together with a card company and use those. I'd be stoked to have a Ken O'Brien card... Hell, even if Freeman McNeil showed up I would be happy, I'd never use him, but it would be cool, no Kyle Brady though... I'd burn it virtually. It's stuff like that, that's in The Show, that makes me want to deep dive and earn, buy or scream in agony over certain players because of the cards.

I do think that trading the cards should be an option in The Show, as it is in Madden. Who didn't trade cards when they were kids? And cheesing a great card off a numbskull buddy was euphoric.

[gogiants98]

Quote: Originally Posted by BIGROC

That's one thing I forgot to mention. The cards collected. I get all different ways of ******** when I see the 86 Topps Mattingly card, or the 87 Topps Andre Dawson. Cards I still own, but remembering them from when I was a kid is such a thrill just for the nostalgia. No clue (especially with EA) why they wouldn't get together with a card company and use those. I'd be stoked to have a Ken O'Brien card... Hell, even if Freeman McNeil showed up I would be happy, I'd never use him, but it would be cool, no Kyle Brady though... I'd burn it virtually. It's stuff like that, that's in The Show, that makes me want to deep dive and earn, buy or scream in agony over certain players because of the cards. I do think that trading the cards should be an option in The Show, as it is in Madden. Who didn't trade cards when they were kids? And cheesing a great card off a numbskull buddy was euphoric.

They teamed up with Panini in Madden 12. Why they didn't continue to do that, not sure -- maybe it's a matter of cost?

[gogiants98]

Quote: Originally Posted by BL8001

Well written and good points. Also in terms of cards the 84-85 rated Superstar cards are the best value. The wtf part is why don't EA put any "built-in" abilities or x-factors on other cards? It''s just weird when your 84 rated Superstar HB who has an x-factor and abilities is so so much better than an 85 to 89 rated HB who has none. Another example would be the 90 ovr Jerry Rice card, a great card sure. But jeez spend 50k and get the Superstar Alshon because once you get his x-factor going he is unstoppable on slant patterns. It just feels stupid that you can buy or snag a legend or flashback card or anything else superior at face value to the Superstar cards but they are not. Secondly, training points are scarce. Other than quick selling cards there are not many other ways to earn them. Then you need so so much to level up a player and apply abilities and x-factors. So you can grind all that out and quick sell your cards or just go buy a superstar card. There is a smaller amount of cards in this game compared to other UT modes so you think they could get the balance better. You look at that 86 Mayfield card you can get and he is pretty crappy when you use him, if you can get the 90 mahomes he is damn near perfection. Should there be that much of a gap between an 86 and a 90? Like you wrote about creating your unis in DD. Look at solo battles in Madden. WTF? There are created unis in there, I have played teams that looked like Wyoming or Florida A&M, so why can't we create our unis in MUT? Also EA needs to hook up with topps or something and get those card designs in the game because a lot of these cards in MUT are pretty shabby looking. Eye candy goes a long way in UT modes and if you had some sweet looking cards you are going to make even more money.

I have yet to encounter someone who really masters the X-factor abilities or even activate them in an online game. Some of the Superstar abilities can be gamechangers for sure, but I kind of like the fact that in the hands of certain playing styles, yes, a HB that's 84 or 85 OVR with a superstar ability could potentially be better than 86 or 87 OVR. Isn't that not that different than real life? Phillip Lindsay shows up to play on gameday and outperforms Saquan Barkley, Melvin Gordon III, etc., this is kind of how that can be reflected without some powerhouse card for a player like Lindsay...at least not this early in the game.

The custom Unis in solo battles are available in Auction or packs. They're created by EA. I'd also love the idea of created uniforms, but there's also the element of abuse there (a current issue in the game is people that use Cowboys "away" jerseys -- their dark blues -- as their away jerseys and if I'm the Colts, Giants, etc. I can't tell who's who).

I'm hoping for more challenges that yield training points (theme builders yields some as you go). They are meant to be fairly scarce, otherwise everyone would have 87-90 power up players in every position. I don't necessarily agree that they're hard to come by, but if you don't quick sell a lot of the players you acquire I guess I could see that.

I also use the 86 Mayfield with his superstar ability activated and don't have much issue. A few inaccurate passes here and there but he's got enough arm to get it done.

[gogiants98]

Quote: Originally Posted by BIGROC

Cards on the table, I LOVE The Show. Diamond Dynasty is by far my favorite part of the game, and it's because it's so we'll laid out, with a few gripes (like the cost of certain cards in the marketplace). That being said, Madden (EA in general like MUT, FUT) Ultimate Team could use some of the paths already laid out by San Diego Studios. This being the OS forum, I'm sure there's plenty of ppl who've been playing The Show, and Diamond Dynasty, but I'll recap briefly... You create your team, completely. From uniforms, through what areas/modes to play through, and missions with clearly stated objectives. (Even if they're sometimes a bit much) but you're usually heavily rewarded for your efforts. I enjoyed FIFA and FUT even though I'm a clear cut novice when it comes to who's who in soccer. With football, it's a much easier thing to digest and comprehend what players do, and who they are. This last iteration of The Show (19) added a lot of modes throughout the game, and added a little more to the DD mode to deepen it. When I fired up my ultimate superstar edition of Madden 20 I was hoping they cut down on some of the arbitrary things in the MUT mode, and deepen it in certain areas. After opening my packs, and adding a few other packs, I got my team together and was rated at 78 to start with. When I began to play through the new way to progress through parts of the challenges and got cards there too, I noticed how many different times I needed to upgrade the cards, again... This really sours me because if I wanted to spend half the time in menus, I'd be ordering Chinese food, not trying to upgrade players who are bottomed out and need to be built up. With the cards in DD, if I get Gleyber Torres, his rating will adjust based on his play in real life. Sure there are other versions of Torres, like his players of the month card that had him go diamond. With ultimate team in Madden I've got to get training points, cards that are worthless that will, if I collect enough, will spit out a player (or group of players) to choose that I have no interest in. Instead of mindlessly going from menu to menu and trying to upgrade a player who should be rated between 85-90 off the bat he's a 72. It's such a time suck. I know it's simply a different sport, and if I don't like how they do it I should just not play that mode... Or that's what I'll be told by someone... But all I'm asking for is to cut some off the fat that's in there to get to the meat. It doesn't have to lessen the amount from the microtransactions for EA, cause I know SDS got 100 bucks out of me for the game, and probably another hundred for stubs. (Maybe a bit more). But I feel like that money went into a mode that I absolutely love and will be playing well past January. I've played almost 1000 games in The Show, almost 90% in DD. Aside that there's no actual stats in a sports game blows my mind (like profile statistics) EA should really separate the wheat from the chaff and streamline ultimate team more. Make it fun to mess around with lineups, to try something new, without needing to find a specific playbook for offense and defense just to find plays you want to run... To make the players the star of the game, and not throw so much arbitrary crap in there so you have to wade through it in order to get to the good things. So far I've been enjoying the actual gameplay... It needs some tweaking, but they've done a good job in that respect. I just wish it would trickle down to MUT... I'm a bit surprised at the lack of different modes. It sort of glaring after seeing how much was added to The Show, or modes that were there were added to. Something as simple as the conquest mode was made better simply because they added different maps instead of the same one they'd been using for 3 years. Madden is sometimes it's own worst enemy, maybe because it's more of an institution than a game franchise at this point. I still remember playing on Sega Genesis when it had 12 or 16 teams, no names or stats... They don't need to recreate the wheel... But a few more spokes would help...

A lot of what you're describing, the "time suck" of time at different menus (I'm assuming you mean lineup, auction, store, etc.) is the appeal to a lot of people for the game mode.

What other game modes within MUT could they really do that fit the game? There's H2H, Weekend League, Draft Champions, Solo Battles, Solo Challenges, Squads...

What you're describing from The Show sounds basically like a lot of the features they have in Franchise mode (which has a connected mode).

[BIGROC]

Quote: Originally Posted by gogiants98

A lot of what you're describing, the "time suck" of time at different menus (I'm assuming you mean lineup, auction, store, etc.) is the appeal to a lot of people for the game mode. What other game modes within MUT could they really do that fit the game? There's H2H, Weekend League, Draft Champions, Solo Battles, Solo Challenges, Squads... What you're describing from The Show sounds basically like a lot of the features they have in Franchise mode (which has a connected mode).

I really don't feel like a huge part of the game should be rendered through menus. The show, I can go check out my squad, and get to it. There's 7 modes in diamond dynasty. That isn't counting the marketplace, where you can end up with racks of cheese by playing the market (if that's your thing)

There isn't any kind of crossover with DD and franchise. If I want to max out the innings they release, I can, if I want to draft an entire 25 man roster and go to was, I can, moments (which are REALLY) up to date I can, if I want to play in a ranked season game, I can, if I want to play in events, guess what I can do... Participate in the events.

There are flashback cards as well as current ones. The flashback cards are the same no matter what...but the guys who are in MLB right now? They're attributes ebb and flow as the season progressrs.

No convoluted upgrade system. You can have multiple squads. You spend your time playing the game, not diddling with menus for a good while upgrading cards. But play the actual game.

They e also made some bigger changes, like adding a map on conquest for each "inning".

My point was this... Madden, and EA as a whole have turned what should be a phenomenal mode (I mean, hello, fantasy football) and created one of the most distracting, convoluted card games in any franchise.

2k wasn't THAT much better because if forced ppl to play a certain way. I know that those 3 sports are very different. But the approach they give off make me really consider that they need to overhaul the mode. To a) make it more used friendly for new players, and b) make it fun and exciting for those who've been playing it as is for years now.

The Show just does it better. Head and shoulders above any other sports franchise out there. I can build my team, and unleash it on the modes, including H2H and enjoy the piss out of myself. EA is going in reverse with the menu on top of menu. I generally enjoy the new Madden. But let's call a spade a spade here instead of being so overprotective of anything the game does.

One thing I LOVED about Madden a few years ago was the QB vision cone. That way you couldn't just scramble around the backfield and hit a 40 yard pass when the coverage finally broke ... But I'm not pissing and moaning about that (though I thought it was a brilliant concept),. One thing, aside from how they handle MUT is that they don't calculate profile statistics. It's a sports game. Stats are at the heart of it. No clue why they did away with them. Not a game breakerbut a huge nuisance.

[BIGROC]

Quote: Originally Posted by gogiants98

A lot of what you're describing, the "time suck" of time at different menus (I'm assuming you mean lineup, auction, store, etc.) is the appeal to a lot of people for the game mode. What other game modes within MUT could they really do that fit the game? There's H2H, Weekend League, Draft Champions, Solo Battles, Solo Challenges, Squads... What you're describing from The Show sounds basically like a lot of the features they have in Franchise mode (which has a connected mode).

Honestly, do you really think we need to cycle through so many menus? Like I said previously, I know they're very different sports. But the goal is the same. Build a team, and go H2H as well as solo/coop challenges. Just think they could have done without so much menu overlay.

San Diego Studios was able to cut through some of the menu stuff that was somewhat annoying last year. Menus for upgrades (which is ridiculous), menu for your team, menu for delving into your players and where you want them... Hell, there's even more menus to get into a franchise game than there needs to be.

I'm enjoying the game itself... But the menu surfing has to stop. Especially with all the "X Factor" crap. I appreciate knowing guys have it, especially on teams I don't really follow super close. But at what point are the menus enough?