As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by bad_philanthropy

Feels like the same old process of Madden's devs running up against the limitations of the code base, and after progressing in some areas, are just caught in tuning hell. Fix or improve one aspect of the gameplay and it breaks another, or causes a reversion bug, and most of your already short dev time is spent on playing whack-a-mole over gameplay balance versus implementation. I have no doubt Rex and co. are doing their best, I just feel like Madden is, at its essence, an especially wheezy and crotchety old jumble of code.

Good code, bad code, either way, the most difficult part of a sports game is getting the real-time aspect correct and balanced. Even with good code, one change likely effects the balance of something else. I'm more patient with the game-play aspect (though people have the right to bring up it's shortcomings).

The part that frustrates me the most is that a Franchise should be the easiest part of a sports game to code. You still have some balancing issues, but the issues aren't nearly as complex as the real time game-play. And yet we still have this shallow, fisher-price franchise.

[Smallville102001]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmurphy31

I agree they would never take 2 or 3 years off to rebuild the game from the ground up. if they were going to do that it would of been with the launch of the new consoles a few years ago. Though, they did secretly work on long shot for the past 3 or 4 years and gave us limited CFM updates. EA could technically work on a new engine while just giving us a new game with updated rosters and a new feature or 2 every year.

Yeah the only way they would take 2-3 years off would be if its sales were really bad like nba live sales had gotten. Skipping a year or 2 would just cost them to much money in sales. The problem is even though madden sales have dropped of it still sales well over all why spend a lot of money to make something if it is going to sale no matter what.

[Grey_Osprey]

When they figure out how to monetize franchise, you'll see all the features and then some that were in older games on less powerful systems. And I bet you won't hear one word about "code", dev cycle, resources, Longshots, or NBA Live.

[DeuceDouglas]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brightline

A couple of points. 1) I really don't know what "looking into it" means at this point. Its a recurring long standing issue. They advertised that they fixed legacy issues. How is this still a problem? 2) Maybe its just really hard to program AI for a football game. So much to consider, seemingly way more than other spots. Maybe EA's whole approach is wrong. Don't code AI to make decisions, track the decisions human players make and have AI mirror it. Is that possible?

Yeah, I mean like jfsolo said, they looked into it last year when it was brought up and didn't think it was an issue worthy of a fix and based on what we've seen it wasn't a priority in M18's development either. So they can look into it all they want but if they come to the same conclusion that it's not even a problem then there's really nothing we can do.

I have no doubt it's a tough thing to replicate, my only thing is that they've done so many of the issues we have now correctly over the years but for whatever reason haven't been able to put them together. There was a time where AI QB's moved in the pocket and scrambling QB's were threats you had to account for. There was a time where AI QB's would throw plenty of harmless incompletions. We're only I think two, now three, Madden's removed from them touting "True-to-Life QB AI" or whatever it was. Hopefully they can do something for 18 but at this point I'd rather just see them go for more of a long term fix than just a band aid.

[Smallville102001]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmurphy31

Back to actual topic. Does it look bad when the CPU AI stands like a statue and takes a sack after a long period of time. Yes. Does it look even worse when they scramble out have either the end zone or 30 plus yards ahead of them and they throw it across the field of play. Yes. I havent watched all the videos but I would actually like to see statistics on all the videos shown so far and how many had 1. a sack that looked real, time wise. 2. What % of pass attempts actually end up in the stand around and take a sack sequence. If the stand around sack only happens 1 or 2 times a game I could probably live with it...beats the automatic throw away. But if they are using similar code from the past 30 years. Wonder if they turned off the take off run trait (or whatever it may be called in programming terms) and maybe they can make it work again. I really think doing one thing for the CFM offline crowd in the first patch or tuner update would really go along way in the mind of that crowd.

I really don't see the CPU taking sacks they shouldn't take that was a 2015 issue and that was the last time that was a issue. The issue is that they don't step up in the pocket to not get sacked in stead they just sit in the pocket and throw the ball away and the 2nd issue the one I think is bigger is like you said there are times were there is like 30 yards ahead with no one around and instead of trying to run and getting 5,10,15 yards or what ever they will just try to make a bad pass across there body that ends up resulting in a INT or a incomplete pass most of the time instead of gaining some of those yards. Because of that to no matter if you are talking about Brady or Willison you are likely to see a end of game stat of like 0 rushes or maybe 1 rush for 2 yards or something. Were if you are playing a good mobile you should be able to see them get like 30-50 yards running in most games.

[bad_philanthropy]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I would love if they could fix all the legacy issues....neither of those things will happen. Also there is no guarantee that rebuilding is the answer. EA has taken off years to rebuild Live and it still is below average.

It would definitely be a risk. I will say that last gen NHL and FIFA in the PS2 days underwent a significant rebuild of their very legacy code bases (and another overhaul for FIFA in 08), and they were huge turning points for each series.

As you said, it doesn't always work out. The NBA series has been in limbo for years now since they tried to rebuild it as a "Elite" in Vancouver, and eventually is got thrown at Tiburon and it's still not where it needs to be to compete with 2k.

I do feel that of all the EA titles though, Madden feels the most like it did on PS2. It feels, and looks in many cases, the same way it has since 2000. It's maybe abstract to describe, but is upgrades feel like segmented add ons rather that a part of an integrated and cohesive gameplay experience. I have no idea if a significant audit and modernization of Madden's code base would lead to much of a different game, but in the cases of NHL last gen, and the FIFA series, it turned those titles turned from really silly and worthless experiences (to me) to ones that absolutely drew me in for years with deep, detailed, and satisfying gameplay.

[extremeskins04]

Quote: Originally Posted by Grey_Osprey

When they figure out how to monetize franchise, you'll see all the features and then some that were in older games on less powerful systems. And I bet you won't hear one word about "code", dev cycle, resources, Longshots, or NBA Live.

If EA made CFM exactly like Deuce's thread is, I'd pay over $100+ for it, easily.

[UtahUtes32]

I've been playing Madden 15 this week (so I'll be really impressed this Friday), and I played against the redskins. Rg3 took a 5 step drop, and on his last drop step, he took off running up the MIDDLE and picked up 6 yards.

We aren't even talking about being WIDE open like in these videos... And they still aren't running for yards in 18..