The top 5 good and bad things we've seen from M10 so far.

[backbreaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by StormJH1

Also, your argument in a subsequent post was that we shouldn't still be talking about core gameplay issues this late in a generation cycle. Why? Were you already satisfied with the way Madden '09 played? If the answer is no, then I can't think of a better thing to work on (and advertise that you're working on) than a core gameplay issue like tacking and player interaction. Your argument is basically the EA argument from years past, which is that the game is what it is, so let's just add a few bells & whistles and roll in the cash.

When I say as gamers especially football gamers should not be talking about core game play issues. I say this on the fact that "Tiburon" has been making football games for 20 years. Core game play fundamentals such as Animation, Physics and Momentum, should be a given. Its the same company pretty much the same team, just playing musical chairs with job titles and responsiblilities.

Here's a post I made a few days ago in another thread and this is the argument I put forth.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...fl-2k5-17.html

No one is saying the game is without flaws. What we're stating is this at least even at the minimum the representation of Animations, Physics and momentum is their. So we can safely say they are trying to make use of those laws their game. The animation system coupled with physics and momentum breathes life into the product, and even if some of the things are broken and random at times they are fairly represented over the course of the game.

Here's my prima facia case in reference to Tiburon vs. Visual Concepts on this Animation/Physics & Momentum(A/P/M)

Way back, I mean way, way, way, wayback in 2002 when 2k3 was released. Madden had a superior A/P/M system and it showed. I remember people used to make those graphs of 8 directional running was the problem and showing that Visual Concepts had "Tron Jogging" run a-muck hence lead to the arcadey running and turning on a dime i.e. and the Madden faithful dogged the product for that very reason, coupled with its stick up the butt running animations. 2k had some other problems as well that it couldn't escape or get out of Maddens shadow and it hindered the series.

So what did Visual concepts do? in response to the critiques?

1. They introduced their A/P/M system with no big announcement, no fan fare they just did it because of the obvious shortcomings and the critiques good/bad and indifferent. The system wasn't perfect but you could see it was implemented. They never said hey look at me, I've added this stuff that should have been their all along. Eventually that A/P/M system got even better moving forward into 2K5 and the progression was even seen in 2K8. Never, never, never did you see them gloat about adding very fundamental and basic simple mechanics to the game as hey look at what we can do as a feature. Why is that?

Visual Concepts, did a one year turnaround on their product to no fanfare, they took the critiques and went to work. While not perfect and with flaws, they at least put in the work and showed promise.

Tiburon, who already had a great A/P/M system from 2003, stripped itself of something that was core to football. When they made the leap to next gen, the complaints began at that point and 3 plus years nothing has changed, so they go out and tout "pro tak" like its the next best thing when all your getting is core football mechanics out of pro tak. Introducing like its a feature, instead of just put up and shut up.

So when I see people jumping up and saying they fixed A, B, and C. I just laugh, 'cause its as if that's a big accomplishment after 3 years of begging by its fans. Like I've said before and I'll say again, "I'm not Impressed.

Here's another example of "hey we get it" no fan fare no its a new feature. SCEA responding to their fans and showing it working in game.

A video released titled A.I Improvements, get it Improvements not a feature. An improvement in response to its fans and done within the next dev cycle and implemented the following iteration.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/sceablog/videos/233/

[Bgamer90]

Quote: Originally Posted by StormJH1

So when your post says that they shouldn't be focusing on improvements that simply relate to core gameplay, my response is that's exactly what we've been asking them to do for years!

That in a nutshell is why I don't get people that complain about EA talking about pro-tak when advertising the game.

Previous years they advertised things such as ring builder, etc. and people complained about that, but now that they are advertising something that improves many areas of gameplay, people still complain.

One of the many cases where they can't win...

[duncan54matt]

Quote: Originally Posted by treee

The Good: 1: Pro-tak! It is pretty awesome right now, but can be built into something that is used in every single aspect of the game. This aspect of the game is definitely a step in the right direction. 2: Presentation. In game presentation is a thousand times better than 09 and the half time show/ franchise show has a lot of potential and can be built on. 3: Graphics/Attention to detail(like colored cleats, hand warmers, ect.). While this was pretty decent in madden 09, they took it to the next level. Each player looks amazingly good. 3 leads into my 4 which is 4: Specific throwing and kicking animations! These are a subtle touch that really add a fresh feeling to the game. 5: This isn't really a feature, but Ians interaction with OS, and madden fans in general. He understands that we want them to put out a good product, so he listens to what we have to say and tries to get it into the game and improve it. Kudos to Ian and crew. The Bad: 1: Running/other robotic looking animations. They don't look so fluid. Maybe add more lean and fluidness, though I wouldn't know exactly how to make it look more fluid. 2: Online Franchise was not completely finished this year. I know they had a lot of stuff to put into the game, but we still have to make note of the shortcoming. 3: This years pocket is one of the best that madden has had, but it still could use a bit of improvement. DEs need to GET UP FIELD! Also, after Ian fixed the curve on the Dline pass rushing, it seems a little overpowered as they get there too fast. 4: Kicking still looks too easy, but I'll reserve judgement until I actually get to kick a few in the game. 5:The sidelines. I wish they were more realistic and active in realtime gameplay. The cutscenes help a lot, but the sidelines still just kill me.

all those are just the things that make we want the game and not want the game but we all know that i am going to buy it !


R.I.P. Steve McNair

[Bgamer90]

Quote: Originally Posted by backbreaker

...so they go out and tout "pro tak" like its the next best thing when all your getting is core football mechanics out of pro tak. Introducing like its a feature, instead of just put up and shut up. So when I see people jumping up and saying they fixed A, B, and C. I just laugh, 'cause its as if that's a big accomplishment after 3 years of begging by its fans. Like I've said before and I'll say again, "I'm not Impressed.

I don't get this...

Why shouldn't they advertise it? It's something that creates many things that people in the past have complained about the lack of in madden for practically 10+ years. I mean, how else would people know what they are getting? If EA didn't talk about it, people would just assume that nothing has improved in terms of the core gameplay and that it's the same as 09.

[Nicknam4]

Madden 10 still has robotic motions, and I'm still seeing crappy animations of WR's trucking through linebackers like little kids and players trucking other players with no leverage. I thought Ian was supposed to fix all of that?

Expect Madden 10 to be just more of the same.

[sois]

Quote: Originally Posted by LionsFanNJ

The Bills garbage O-line, arguably the worst in the league, against the ravens D of Ngata, Suggs, and i believe Pryce at one of the ends.

Yeah, that makes the problem even worse. Those illustrious defenders you named couldn't even get upfield against those crap OT's. NOT ONCE did a DE just blow by the OT. Every matchup started off with an engagement, then the DE would make a move.

You must not know what an upfield rush looks like. Here is a good tutorial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIXsjoTHWe0

Notice how he doesn't say "first I square up the tackle, engage him, and then make a non-effective move".

[LionsFanNJ]

Quote: Originally Posted by sois

Yeah, that makes the problem even worse. Those illustrious defenders you named couldn't even get upfield against those crap OT's. NOT ONCE did a DE just blow by the OT. Every matchup started off with an engagement, then the DE would make a move. You must not know what an upfield rush looks like. Here is a good tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIXsjoTHWe0 Notice how he doesn't say "first I square up the tackle, engage him, and then make a non-effective move".

I know what an upfield pass rush looks like and Ian is using this time to tighten up issues with the pocket.(I don't feel like looking for the post). I know the pocket does not form correctly, i know the Ends don't get upfield fast and deep enough. Its been repeated ad nauseum in this forum to no end for months now.
besides, my issue and response was to this in the OP:

Quote: Originally Posted by treee

Also, after Ian fixed the curve on the Dline pass rushing, it seems a little overpowered as they get there too fast.

So the pass rushing bug gets found and fixed and now its too fast, even with the case of a good D-line against a bad O-line. Its the only case study we have, and additionally one that the pocket hasn't had any final tweaks done to adjust all the issues everyone loves to make known