What is the most important position on the floor?

[Cebby]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brankles

But look at the rest of the teams that missed the playoffs (with records under 37 wins) and their best players: New Jersey had VC Indiana had Mike Dunleavy and Danny Granger Chicago had Luol Deng Milwaukee had Michael Redd and Andrew Bogut Miami had Dwyane Wade and Shawn Marion/Shaq Minnesota - Al Jefferson Seattle - Kevin Durant LA Clippers - Corey Maggette/Chris Kaman Memphis - Rudy Gay/Pau Gasol

New Jersey also had Jason Kidd.

You can't include Gay, Jefferson, or Durant because they're too young. Paul, Williams, and several other top PGs missed the playoffs their first few years given that they're young and walking into a horrible situation.

Wade was injured.

Redd is really the only exception.

Maggette, Kaman, Dunleavy, and Granger? Those more prove my point than anything else. None of those are top 8 in their conference at their position.

The only top level player in that group is Wade and he was wounded. And given that he, unlike every top PG, has won a championship, he's probably not a great example to use.

Point guards get nice records and hype. SGs and Cs win the chips.

Quote:

This is seen in the lowest levels of basketball. If there's a youth/high school/college team that can't bring the ball up court, handle pressure and make simple passes, then they're screwed. They could have a big man that can dominate down low or a lights-out shooter and slasher, but if the basic fundamentals of basketball cannot be completed by their primary ballhandler, then those players will be held back significantly.

This is the NBA. Every top level team can acquire a PG who can pass the ball adequately. I cannot think of a team who's PG was so inept that could not dribble and pass the ball. If Rondo, Fisher, and an old J. Williams are championship caliber PGs, then the bar is set pretty damn low. Again, that's like saying you can't have a 5' 8" center who can't rebound and allows 58 points per game in the paint.

[Brankles]

Rondo and Fisher can handle the ball, manage the offense and play defense. Fisher was hailed for his smart and clutch play during Lakers title runs back in the 2000s and Rajon Rondo played very good basketball in this years Finals. They are not great PGs, but they are good game managers, the way Ben Roethlisberger was a good game manager, but not a great QB, during his rookie year when the Steelers won the Super Bowl. The old Jason Williams shared PG duties with Wade, who actually was the primary offensive ballhandler, averaging the most assists that season for the Heat.


My whole point is that without a PG who understands the game of basketball, the team is held back more than by any other position on the floor. Bad SG? Bad SF? Bad PF/C? Oh well. Bad PG? You're screwed, good luck making the playoffs. And if you do have a bad PG, you better have a guy like Lebron or Allen Iverson (who could both be considered PGs due to their playmaking and passing ability) to make up for it.

Who were Kobe's PG during his stretch of missing the playoffs the seasons after Shaq left? Smush Parker, Chucky Atkins and Sasha Vujacic.

Who were TMac's PG during his rash of bad seasons in Orlando? Jacque Vaughn and Tyronn Lue.

Paul Pierce lottery squads? Delonte West, a rookie Rajon Rondo, Sebastian Telfair.



PGs may not win championships alone, but they are a necessity in basketball moreso than any other position.

[number10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brankles

Rondo and Fisher can handle the ball, manage the offense and play defense. Fisher was hailed for his smart and clutch play during Lakers title runs back in the 2000s and Rajon Rondo played very good basketball in this years Finals. They are not great PGs, but they are good game managers, the way Ben Roethlisberger was a good game manager, but not a great QB, during his rookie year when the Steelers won the Super Bowl. The old Jason Williams shared PG duties with Wade, who actually was the primary offensive ballhandler, averaging the most assists that season for the Heat. My whole point is that without a PG who understands the game of basketball, the team is held back more than by any other position on the floor. Bad SG? Bad SF? Bad PF/C? Oh well. Bad PG? You're screwed, good luck making the playoffs. And if you do have a bad PG, you better have a guy like Lebron or Allen Iverson (who could both be considered PGs due to their playmaking and passing ability) to make up for it. Who were Kobe's PG during his stretch of missing the playoffs the seasons after Shaq left? Smush Parker, Chucky Atkins and Sasha Vujacic. Who were TMac's PG during his rash of bad seasons in Orlando? Jacque Vaughn and Tyronn Lue. Paul Pierce lottery squads? Delonte West, a rookie Rajon Rondo, Sebastian Telfair. PGs may not win championships alone, but they are a necessity in basketball moreso than any other position.

Looks like your a Florida : ) but I still have to agree with what you said. It was well put. Couldnt agree more.

[Cebby]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brankles

My whole point is that without a PG who understands the game of basketball, the team is held back more than by any other position on the floor.

It's the NBA. How many PGs don't understand the game of basketball? Somewhere between 0 and 0.

Quote:

Bad PG? You're screwed, good luck making the playoffs.

Depends what you mean by bad. I wouldn't rate Rondo and WC any higher than adequate. Fisher is decent, but certainly nothing to write home about. When Detroit won, Billups shot under 40% and averaged 2.5 TOs per game. Obviously playoff teams tend to not have "bad" starters. How many playoff teams had bad SGs?

Quote:

Who were Kobe's PG during his stretch of missing the playoffs the seasons after Shaq left? Smush Parker, Chucky Atkins and Sasha Vujacic.

Who was Nash's SG when they won 62 games?

Quote:

Paul Pierce lottery squads? Delonte West, a rookie Rajon Rondo, Sebastian Telfair.

I'm sure Rajon Rondo improving was the difference for the Celtics.

You're better than that.

Quote:

PGs may not win championships alone

You can drop the alone. Choosing a PG over a C or SG is like choosing Randy Moss, TO, and Romo over the 85 Bears defense and Joe Montana. It may be cuter, but one team's winning the chip and the other isn't.

[Brankles]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cebby

It's the NBA. How many PGs don't understand the game of basketball? Somewhere between 0 and 0.

You must watch a different NBA than I do. I made a list earlier and you basically ignored it. There's players at every position on the court that don't understand how to play basketball the right way, not just PGs. It's just that when you have a bad PG, it effects the team more than all of those other positions.

Quote:

Depends what you mean by bad. I wouldn't rate Rondo and WC any higher than adequate. Fisher is decent, but certainly nothing to write home about. When Detroit won, Billups shot under 40% and averaged 2.5 TOs per game. Obviously playoff teams tend to not have "bad" starters. How many playoff teams had bad SGs?

Well, all Rondo had to be was "adequate" on a team full of superstars.
Chauncey Billups is a top 3 perimeter defender at the PG position.

Playoff teams and SGs I would consider every day players.

East:
Orlando (Keith Bogans)
Philadelphia (Willie Green)
Toronto (Anthony Parker)
Cleveland (Sasha Pavlovic)
Washington (Deshawn Stevenson)

West:
Utah (Ronnie Brewer)
Phoenix (Raja Bell)
New Orleans (Morris Peterson)
Dallas (Jerry Stackhouse/Jason Terry was a PG running SG)
San Antonio (Michael Finley. This one shouldn't count, though, as Ginobili played most of the minutes here)

That's more than half the teams in the playoffs starting guys who aren't even in the top 20 (except Terry and Bell who were 19th and 20th) in their position at SG.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articl..._Guards/264312

Quote:

Who was Nash's SG when they won 62 games?

Are you trying to prove a point against me or yourself? Look above.

Quote:

I'm sure Rajon Rondo improving was the difference for the Celtics. You're better than that.

Spit all you want Sylvester, Rajon Rondo is a completely different player than he was last year. Playing on one of the most talented teams in NBA history also made his job a little easier.

Quote:

You can drop the alone. Choosing a PG over a C or SG is like choosing Randy Moss, TO, and Romo over the 85 Bears defense and Joe Montana. It may be cuter, but one team's winning the chip and the other isn't.

I don't see how a PG is a QB and a SG or C is an entire football defense. That's a bad analogy. If anything, the PG is the QB and the SG is the WR/RB. On defense, the PG would be the defensive line, clogging up lanes and allowing the linebackers and corners (or the NBA SG) to make plays.

Also picking the big stats highlight reel SG is the "cuter" pick, not the PG.

[Cebby]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brankles

Playoff teams and SGs I would consider every day players. East: Orlando (Keith Bogans) Philadelphia (Willie Green) Toronto (Anthony Parker) Cleveland (Sasha Pavlovic) Washington (Deshawn Stevenson) West: Utah (Ronnie Brewer) Phoenix (Raja Bell) New Orleans (Morris Peterson) Dallas (Jerry Stackhouse/Jason Terry was a PG running SG) San Antonio (Michael Finley. This one shouldn't count, though, as Ginobili played most of the minutes here)

And Orlando, Cleveland, Washington, Boston, Atlanta, Denver, LA, Dallas, and Houston had everyday players at PG.

Quote:

Spit all you want Sylvester, Rajon Rondo is a completely different player than he was last year. Playing on one of the most talented teams in NBA history also made his job a little easier.

And he had absolutely nothing to do with Boston going from worst to first. Acquiring two hall of fame players and a great 6th man had a lot more to do with it.

Quote:

I don't see how a PG is a QB and a SG or C is an entire football defense. That's a bad analogy. If anything, the PG is the QB and the SG is the WR/RB. On defense, the PG would be the defensive line, clogging up lanes and allowing the linebackers and corners (or the NBA SG) to make plays. Also picking the big stats highlight reel SG is the "cuter" pick, not the PG.

Point guards are the Big XII offenses (Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Texas Tech), Dallas Cowboys, and non-2006 Colts. Great regular season players, but come playoffs, give me the defensive teams and efficient quarterbacks. Point guards are the most important if you want to be a 2 or 3 seed and get run out of the second round. It'll happen this year too. Paul and Deron will make some cute plays, get a lot of hype, and maybe win the MVP, but come finals time, it'll be Rondo vs Fisher.

Either that or the 4 hall of fame players, Gasol, and Bynum.

[ehh]

If all five players on the floor are 100% equal in talent then the PG is the most important position. Other than that this debate has a legitimate argument for every single position, especially if you're using real-life examples. Too many variables.

[JBH3]

Most important player on the floor is a dominant big.

2nd most important player is a PG who can feed him the ball.

Everything else around your dominant big is his supporting cast.