2016-17 NBA MVP

[Streets]

A little something on Russ' stat-padding...

https://youtu.be/Tj6fJq1tHGE

[ProfessaPackMan]

Wwharton-

25-35% - Team Success
30-40% - Individual Stats
(I'm aware those two will tend to corollate with each other)
10-15% - Any other factors you want to include.

Quote: Originally Posted by Streets

A little something on Russ' stat-padding... https://youtu.be/Tj6fJq1tHGE https://cdn-e1.streamable.com/image/...e6e6aeff8b3422

Colin Cowherd? Really?

Come on man, I know you can find anyone else to support your argument other than that ****head, lol.

[ojandpizza]

The coaching system definitely helps, but the Spurs just have a lot of smart players man. And defenders that definitely aren't Kawhi, but are good enough to give stretches of top level defense when he's sitting. They minimize mistakes, which often when the teams better players sit teams make mistakes. The Spurs are just more sound than most. Plus Patty Mills shoots about 100% from the field, or at least that's how it feels when you watch him play lol.

I think the biggest thing in Kawhi's favor this year is his ability to get something for himself late in the game when you need a player who can do that. He hasn't really been that guy at this level prior to this season. He's still somewhat hit or miss on it, one game he's a cold blooded killer and the next he looks back to what he was the past couple years. But that's almost any player.

I think his next step is a leap forward to being a lethal scorer like Kobe or KD where he can just take over games at any given time, or a player who when he's not scoring 30+ he's making all those around him better, making defenses make huge adjustments. Right now he's leaning more towards a Durant type of player where he's solid at everything and becoming a really good scorer, only Durant is solid at evening and a great/elite scorer. The stats are up pretty high from a numbers stand point, but in comparison to players like LeBron, Curry, KD, to a lesser extent Westbrook, Harden, I don't think he makes the opposing teams sweat and game plan against him the way they do. To me, that's his next step to becoming a true perennial MVP candidate. He's knocking on that door this season though.


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[Streets]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

Wwharton- 25-35% - Team Success 30-40% - Individual Stats (I'm aware those two will tend to corollate with each other) 10-15% - Any other factors you want to include. Colin Cowherd? Really? Come on man, I know you can find anyone else to support your argument other than that ****head, lol.

Regardless of personality, the stats are telling. If you are going to let the method of delivery deter you, then here...

Quote:

Westbrook has contested a grand total of 160 FG’s on the ENTIRE SEASON. That number is staggeringly low and to be frank, flat out embarrassing. … Westbrook ranks dead last in the NBA in contested shots among players averaging 30 or more MPG by a considerable margin. Hilariously, the only two players who have contested less 3P FGA’s are Rudy Gobert and Whiteside, who have contested 53 and 64 respectively. Russell Westbrook is at 69 while having playing [sic] close to the same amount of minutes…Yes, DeAndre Jordan has contested more 3P FGA’s this season than Russell Westbrook.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/03/24/is-...ats-say-he-is/

Basically he's leaving his man to go for rebounds instead, chasing the triple double.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

Wwharton- 25-35% - Team Success 30-40% - Individual Stats (I'm aware those two will tend to corollate with each other) 10-15% - Any other factors you want to include.

I can get with that. I'd say they're about even so both 40% with 20% left for something else? That may be a lot... 43% each? Either way, we'd have to define all the possible "other" things to really get a percentage but for discussion, that makes sense.

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

The coaching system definitely helps, but the Spurs just have a lot of smart players man. And defenders that definitely aren't Kawhi, but are good enough to give stretches of top level defense when he's sitting. They minimize mistakes, which often when the teams better players sit teams make mistakes. The Spurs are just more sound than most. Plus Patty Mills shoots about 100% from the field, or at least that's how it feels when you watch him play lol. I think the biggest thing in Kawhi's favor this year is his ability to get something for himself late in the game when you need a player who can do that. He hasn't really been that guy at this level prior to this season. He's still somewhat hit or miss on it, one game he's a cold blooded killer and the next he looks back to what he was the past couple years. But that's almost any player. I think his next step is a leap forward to being a lethal scorer like Kobe or KD where he can just take over games at any given time, or a player who when he's not scoring 30+ he's making all those around him better, making defenses make huge adjustments. Right now he's leaning more towards a Durant type of player where he's solid at everything and becoming a really good scorer, only Durant is solid at evening and a great/elite scorer. The stats are up pretty high from a numbers stand point, but in comparison to players like LeBron, Curry, KD, to a lesser extent Westbrook, Harden, I don't think he makes the opposing teams sweat and game plan against him the way they do. To me, that's his next step to becoming a true perennial MVP candidate. He's knocking on that door this season though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

Yeah Curry should have gotten finals MVP. Iggy had moments, but he wasn't the one driving the bus. I think any team would have to make adjustments when losing the best player. The difference here is, Houston can successfully execute their game plan when Harden isn't in the game, from what I've seen at least. Obviously not at the same level mind you. But OKC can't replicate what Westbrook allows them to do when he's off the court. For the most part, you get a lot of ugly Oladipo ISO jumpers. And that's where I tend to see the largest difference. It's not that individually or on paper Houston has a roster that's miles better than OKC's, but more so that their roster/game plan is constructed in a way that they can still function when Harden is sitting, or having an off night, or whatever the case may be. OKC without Westbrook in the game can't even really stay afloat. A lot of the games they've won they have been down and he's entered the game for the last time and brings them back. Granted they've lost games with him doing that as well, but he's kept them in games it feels like they just don't have any business being in. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Putting these together because I think my response fits both of them.

I don't think you're disproving my point. For me (and we're clear we don't know exactly what the voters are looking for) the MVP performs at a high level which directly translates to giving your team a chance at winning the championship. As a regular season award, how good that chance is is translated into # of wins.

Now both of these players are functioning in the system they are put in, and with the players around them that are out of their control. That's just a reality... other factors will effect you reaching your potential. BUT we can still evaluate what they have done... so, I'm not knocking Westbrook for being given the role of "Go HAM 24/7" AND won't knock Harden for benefiting from a PG friendly offense.

In the same regard, I won't look at hypotheticals like what MIGHT happen if either team didn't have their star, because neither team would have the same gameplan as they do now. Just because Houston's is closer designed for success without Harden than OKC's doesn't mean it's a direct factor of either of their play. Are the Spurs really just smarter or do they have better coaching, putting them in a better system, giving them more meaningful minutes throughout the year so they're more prepared for a bad situation, etc.?

An individual award shouldn't be tied at all to all of the factors around the individual. We can't completely escape it because it's not an individual sport. But introducing the "If we take player X off the team" is creating a scenario that doesn't evaluate the player at all, and ignores tons of variables.

[Streets]

Stats and the eye test back up the stat-padding narrative but I don't think the voters care that much honestly. If Harden did this AND his teammates purposely worked to get Harden more boards, I'm pretty sure he could make up the two rebound discrepancy. However, even without that he's making history with his own stats and his team is doing better as well.

A lot of people simply don't like Harden and that may be enough. We'll see.

[dubcity]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

Seeing all these reasons as to why RWB should be disqualified make me wonder why Kawhi isn't the consensus.... Wins: check Efficiency: check Stats...Hardens averages are clearly better. but the weight they have seems to shift based on the conversation.... Explanation?

I'd be more than fine with Kawhi or LeBron winning it. I find both of them both infinitely more likable as players and dudes than WB or Harden. But the media (ie: MVP voter) don't seem interested in them.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

1.) the MVP performs at a high level which directly translates to giving your team a chance at winning the championship. 2.) In the same regard, I won't look at hypotheticals like what MIGHT happen if either team didn't have their star, because neither team would have the same gameplan as they do now. 3.) Are the Spurs really just smarter or do they have better coaching, putting them in a better system, giving them more meaningful minutes throughout the year so they're more prepared for a bad situation, etc.? 4.) An individual award shouldn't be tied at all to all of the factors around the individual.

I number these to make the response easier.

1.) so therefor LeBron being the only 1 seed in the discussion has achieved this level more so than the other 3 guys? He'll be the only one with homecourt all the way to the finals (assuming one of the others make it rather than GS) and by the wins logic has theoretically given his team the best chance at winning the title. (As if having him on your team didn't already do that lol)

2.) True, and I brought that up about the Cavs being in the dumpster without LeBron. If LeBron was truly out for extended time they have the talent to be successful to at least playoff level under a different strategy. Using the same strategy without him they are obviously trash. However, we still can see how much more beneficial these guys can be without the hypotheticals. Which is why I posted the on/off court stuff.

3.) Smarter wasn't good wording on my part. I meant smarter because of what you posted. Better wording might be disciplined as a result of their coaching, therefor their gameplay yields smarter play from the players.

4.) An individual award shouldn't be tied to all of the factors around them, but TEAM wins should play an equal role in voting as INDIVIDUAL performance? I feel like that's contradicting to an extent.


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