Werewolf XXXVIII: Jack The Ripper (GAME OVER! GOOD WINS ON DAY SEVEN)

[Swaggs]

My thinking is that, unless prostitutes have been converted, we win by killing bullet and/or DT. So...

Vote Bulletsponge
Vote Lynch DaddyTorgo

[Raiders Army]

I'm not in jail. DT is.

Dammit! I LOL when Chief Rum asked me if I knew something that he didn't when I jailed LSG. I was like, huh?

I jailed her for the murder of Izulde. ;)

[Blade6119]

Bullet - 4

Anyone else - 0

LYNCH DT - 3

NO LYNCH DT - 1

[Swaggs]

I will probably not be back before the deadline, as I have to work late tonight. I feel pretty good about our chances of closing things out with this vote.

[Izulde]

Dammit! I LOL when Chief Rum asked me if I knew something that he didn't when I jailed LSG. I was like, huh?

I jailed her for the murder of Izulde. ;)

I'm alive, baby.

[Raiders Army]

I changed it to the murder of Tyrith, which is why a note appeared on the door.

[hoopsguy]

BTW, I did not go out last night because I still couldn't afford it.

Can you give an actions breakdown, then? I know you were jailed for part of the game but I'm curious to see what the rest of the actions/money list looks like. It seems like you would have had to have pretty lousy luck not to have five shillings for last night.

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE BULLETSPONGE

VOTE IZULDE

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE IZULDE

VOTE SWAGGS

[BrianD]

What was that Blade? Looks like you just had a fight with yourself and lost. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Daddy, when you sign on - were you able to complete any activities last night before you were arrested?

That is one thing that has been challenging for me in trying to understand nightly events - I have not been able to follow when events are happening in terms of the two phases (1st or 2nd) or to understand what people can do in conjunction with their actions.

However, with Path's death I'm moving further towards the idea that people can not both visit a prostitute and kill on the same evenings.

There is not a single person left alive who has visited me at night.
People I have not seen at all during night sessions: Raiders, Swaggs, Bullet, Daddy.


nope. my PM was something to the extent of "you know the constables are coming for you, as you prepare to go out anyway and try to visit the prostitutes they show up at your door at the Inn and arrest you."

[hoopsguy]

DT, any strong opinions on who might be the last (?) killer and why?

[DaddyTorgo]

My name is John Tolliver. I am an opium merchant. I didn't kill anyone. I am here in town (obivously) to supply the opium to the opium den. Note that I'm not the OWNER of the opium den, but I do the supplying. Hence why I am staying at the Innn, like Blade (who incidentally is just several doors down from me). So killing me early would have (I assume) shut off the supply of opium to the den, thus taking it out of play. I suppose that doesn't matter so much anymore, but that's why I have stayed in several nights, to supply the opium to the den. I only had night actions available to me on several nights, other nights it was apparently mandated that I stay in in order to provide the opium to the opium den.

I didn't kill Barkeep. Wouldn't it have been pretty stupid to have been the last person to have visited him and then have killed him? Added to the fact that I'm not evil.

You're looking in the wrong place people.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think I'm with Blade on this one....Swaggs and/or Izulde ?? Blade could have scanned Swaggs and he could if he was Moriarity shown up as good (perhaps some evil "cloaking" ability)? And then Izulde could have been converted at some point along the way?

FWIW I don't have a vote or a night action because you all have thrown me in jail...but my vote would be on Swaggs or Izulde, and then clearly not on lynching me.

[hoopsguy]

"evil cloaking" is certainly something that has been seen in these games before - cunning wolf is what it is usually called. Basically a bad guy who looks like a good guy under certain circumstances (death, seer view, etc).

DaddyT - I know you said that you stayed home a couple of nights. I think it could still be helpful to know what your night-by-night activities are. If you are playing as a good guy, you have no incentive to lie. And I'm hoping that there might be some information in there that I can use to help build a case in another direction.

[hoopsguy]

Izulde, what district did you work last night? Any customers?

[hoopsguy]

Swaggs, will you have enough money to score tonight?

[Swaggs]

Hoops, I had a detailed account of my actions typed on my laptop, but lost connection, so back on my PC.

Real quick.

Night 0 -- no action, didn't get one submitted.
Night 1 -- visited opium den. Had the vision of barkeep and bullet.
Day 2/Night 2 -- placed an 8-shilling bribe that was accepted, but didn't specify what I wanted done (follow someone or watch an area). Missed the PM from CR as I had gone to bed. Got the option to specify the following day and chose to follow LSG, but Schmidty died.
Night 3 -- went to the opium den. Spoke to Blade and cronin. Was arrested.
Day/Night 3 -- was in jail.
Day 4/Night 4 -- was in jail. Released in the morning. Had 1 at the end of the night.
Day 5/Night 5 -- stayed home to save money.
Day 6/Night 6 -- stayed home to save money.

I could not earn money while in jail.

I will be back tonight.

[Swaggs]

Swaggs, will you have enough money to score tonight?

Yes... I have enough now.

If you guys make it clear where to go, I will visit tonight.

[Swaggs]

and I am really out now. :)

[hoopsguy]

For the non-prostitutes - when do you get money? During the day phase or the night phase? This is another piece of information that has not been very clear to me so far ...

[DaddyTorgo]

okay hoops. will do

[DaddyTorgo]

Night Zero - Was arriving in town and didn't get an action. Would have missed the deadline anyway because I wasn't clear on the whole Night Zero concept. I know I said in the past I missed the deadline but that was to avoid saying that I didn't get an action because I was arriving in town on my ship and traveling to the Inn (didn't want to make myself a target as a possible new arrival and be thought of as Holmes/Watson/etc).
Night One -Stayed in to meet with my contacts and supply the opium.
Night Two - The aforementioned "trying to consort with Izulde as Izulde is arrested." Witnessed there by Wednesday, dubb, bullet and DC
Night Three -Opium supplying.
Night Four - Damm that Barkeep was one sexy prostitute. DC went first and then me. Discovered that bulletsponge has hired barkeep twice already. So I would have literally been the last person to hire Barkeep. Would I have been stupid enough to poison him/her? I think not. I think everyone would agree that in the last game I showed more sense as a wolf than that, even if I was evil, which I'm not.
Night Five-Missed deadline for going out and doing anything due to falling asleep in front of my computer. Had the $$ to meet with a prostitute due to my initial starting amount and the little extra I earn for the opium supplying (poppies are expensive ya know), but missed it due to being sleepy.
Night 6-As we all know I was going out to meet with a prostitute and then was arrested by the constable's men.

[hoopsguy]

For your Night four information to be accurate, Bullet would have had to visit Barkeep again on Nights 2 or 3 after seeing BK on Night 1.

I'll see if I can find any posts that back up this information.

Bullet, you can make it easier on me by either confirming or denying this.

[DaddyTorgo]

For your Night four information to be accurate, Bullet would have had to visit Barkeep again on Nights 2 or 3 after seeing BK on Night 1.

I'll see if I can find any posts that back up this information.

Bullet, you can make it easier on me by either confirming or denying this.

i just triple-checked my Night Four Action PM on that, and that's definately what it says. Bullet visited barkeep twice already.

hopefully that helps take my neck out of the noose a little. I will be around, doing some various things from now till lynch, but I hope you all see my side of things and let me out of jail to go back to the Inn.

[hoopsguy]

DT, can you also overlay your day/night information with gold collected? At this point I don't think the threat of robbery is a strong enough justification to protect this information - we are hopefully closing in on end-game with the bad guys so I really think there is much more value to releasing info than to protecting it.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - gold = shillings.

[DaddyTorgo]

gotcha.

[DaddyTorgo]

Night Zero - Was arriving in town and didn't get an action. Would have missed the deadline anyway because I wasn't clear on the whole Night Zero concept. I know I said in the past I missed the deadline but that was to avoid saying that I didn't get an action because I was arriving in town on my ship and traveling to the Inn (didn't want to make myself a target as a possible new arrival and be thought of as Holmes/Watson/etc). Arrived with 4 shillings to my name.
Night One -Stayed in to meet with my contacts and supply the opium. (+4 shillings)
Night Two - The aforementioned "trying to consort with Izulde as Izulde is arrested." Witnessed there by Wednesday, dubb, bullet and DC.
Night Three -Opium supplying. (+4 shillings)
Night Four - Damm that Barkeep was one sexy prostitute. DC went first and then me. Discovered that bulletsponge has hired barkeep twice already. So I would have literally been the last person to hire Barkeep. Would I have been stupid enough to poison him/her? I think not. I think everyone would agree that in the last game I showed more sense as a wolf than that, even if I was evil, which I'm not. (-5 shillings)
Night Five-Missed deadline for going out and doing anything due to falling asleep in front of my computer. Had the $$ to meet with a prostitute due to my initial starting amount and the little extra I earn for the opium supplying (poppies are expensive ya know), but missed it due to being sleepy.
Night 6-As we all know I was going out to meet with a prostitute and then was arrested by the constable's men.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm headed out to walk the dog and then go to some work-party and get advice from my old manager about WTF I should do about the fact that my new manager is making me hate my job, and when i hate my job i realize that i'm underemployed and i should be in grad school.

but that ends at 8, so i should be home by like 8:45ish or so.

[hoopsguy]

DT, do you still get money if you do not supply opium? It seems like a bad metric for others to gain 3 every day/night they are not in jail but you only gain 4 if you take a specific night action and nothing if you go out looking for a good time.

[Izulde]

No hookups, no one seen for me either and I was in Whitechapel. Was a real dead night too.

I also find path's murder quite surprising, as he and DaddyTorgo were two of the most talked about suspects.

As I already mentioned last night's actions before, I'll just quote myself :P

[st.cronin]

lynch Daddytorgo
vote Bulletsponge

[hoopsguy]

Izulde, just curious - why did you decide to go to a different district than I did last night? Was that a strategic decision or a random decision? If strategic, what was the thought process?

[hoopsguy]

For others in the game who could go out last night, but not visit Izulde or me, what districts did you visit?

I was in Commercial.
Izulde was in Whitechapel.

[st.cronin]

dola

Not sure what to say. We're obviously in the endgame, and the badguy(s) are either cornered or have most of us totally fooled.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, where did you and Blade head last night?

[st.cronin]

Cronin, where did you and Blade head last night?

We went after path.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so what was the timing on that? Did you speak to him and he was killed later? Because I'm the one that discovered the body ...

What district was Path in?

[st.cronin]

OK, so what was the timing on that? Did you speak to him and he was killed later? Because I'm the one that discovered the body ...

What district was Path in?

We interviewed him in Commercial prior to him being killed.

[st.cronin]

Dola

We recieved no information on the murder other than what was posted in thread by Chief Rum.

[hoopsguy]

Anyone else in the district? Did you guys see me in Commercial?

[hoopsguy]

Because I didn't see you guys - on three previous evenings I have seen you guys doing your interrogation. Last night I was in the district with you - with nothing in my PM or the night write-up that indicates particularly bad viewing conditions - and I do not encounter you interrogating Path. So I'm wondering what was different?

[st.cronin]

Anyone else in the district? Did you guys see me in Commercial?

I did not notice you at all, but I haven't seen Blade's pm yet. We don't always get the same information.

[st.cronin]

Because I didn't see you guys - on three previous evenings I have seen you guys doing your interrogation. Last night I was in the district with you - with nothing in my PM or the night write-up that indicates particularly bad viewing conditions - and I do not encounter you interrogating Path. So I'm wondering what was different?

No idea. Maybe something about path?

[Blade6119]

Cronin, please check your PM box...we need to talk about a few things in private

[Blade6119]

What was that Blade? Looks like you just had a fight with yourself and lost. :)

Ever watch scrubs? I was cracking up one episode when the main character JD was being given an intervention by his friends..they said he worked too hard, and he denied it. So his best friend asked him about the time he wanted to go on vacaction. JD said how he submitted his request for time off but it was turned down. His friend points out JD is the one who handles the requests, and turned himself down. JD is all "Ya, well it just wasnt in the books to grant myself the days off i requested."

Random, but its what i thought of when you said that

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE SWAGGS

VOTE BULLETSPONGE

ill follow that argument cronin

[DaddyTorgo]

nope. i only get $$ if I supply said opium. i guess it was some design by CR to make the person with that role a subject of suspiscion because they had to stay in to get $$. And maybe some sort of sacrifice for the extra shilling.

vote count? am i still in trouble?

[Blade6119]

nope. i only get $$ if I supply said opium. i guess it was some design by CR to make the person with that role a subject of suspiscion because they had to stay in to get $$. And maybe some sort of sacrifice for the extra shilling.

vote count? am i still in trouble?

I think its either 3-1 your dying or 4-1...either way id say your a dead man..im the lone vote to keep you alive right now

[Raiders Army]

I'm tending to believe DT. This is what I propose: let's present some additional evidence to keep him in jail one more night and see if the game is over when bulletsponge is lynched. I'd hate to see DT die and us win if bulletsponge is Moriarty. If the game isn't over, let's lynch the sucka.

My evidence is that he was one of the last two with Barkeep. DC was the other. Since it wasn't DC that poisoned Barkeep, we can only concluded that it was DT.

[Raiders Army]

UNVOTE LYNCH DADDY TORGO

[DaddyTorgo]

I think its either 3-1 your dying or 4-1...either way id say your a dead man..im the lone vote to keep you alive right now


awww. well thanks for that blade! maybe you can talk to watson? i don't wanna die. I'm innocent! How stupid would I have to be to poison barkeep and be the last to sleep with him?

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm tending to believe DT. This is what I propose: let's present some additional evidence to keep him in jail one more night and see if the game is over when bulletsponge is lynched. I'd hate to see DT die and us win if bulletsponge is Moriarty. If the game isn't over, let's lynch the sucka.

My evidence is that he was one of the last two with Barkeep. DC was the other. Since it wasn't DC that poisoned Barkeep, we can only concluded that it was DT.

or someone before me. dubb said it was slow-acting right? if we assume he's telling the truth it could have been any of a number of people, not just me!

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE NO LYNCH DADDY TORGO

VOTE LYNCH DADDY TORGO

Sorry DT, its a numbers game now...killing both of you will help us plow through those numbers...cronin convinced me

[Blade6119]

awww. well thanks for that blade! maybe you can talk to watson? i don't wanna die. I'm innocent! How stupid would I have to be to poison barkeep and be the last to sleep with him?

I dont think you want to thank me anymore, raiders took over the one vote spot. my side-kick convinced me, not so much about you as our overall strategy in this game. Sorry mate.

[DaddyTorgo]

UNVOTE NO LYNCH DADDY TORGO

VOTE LYNCH DADDY TORGO

Sorry DT, its a numbers game now...killing both of you will help us plow through those numbers...cronin convinced me

:eek:

nooooooo

[Blade6119]

or someone before me. dubb said it was slow-acting right? if we assume he's telling the truth it could have been any of a number of people, not just me!

We know of 4 people barkeep slept with..2 are dead, and the other 2 will both die today...numbers game, like i said

[DaddyTorgo]

We know of 4 people barkeep slept with..2 are dead, and the other 2 will both die today...numbers game, like i said

could be someone he didn't sleep with too though. consider that plz!

[st.cronin]

could be someone he didn't sleep with too though. consider that plz!

Actually it could not have been. The evidence was quite clear.

[DaddyTorgo]

Actually it could not have been. The evidence was quite clear.

evidence? if it's going to damm an innocent man, care to share?

[Blade6119]

could be someone he didn't sleep with too though. consider that plz!

No, i know whoever poisoned him did it while making love...if both you and bullet come up good, which i doubt, then that leaves swaggs as the only other person who could have done it. Hoops and izulde cant visit other prostitutes, and raiders, cronin, and i cant at all. I scanned swaggs night 3, and we dont think he was ever with barkeep. Therefore, its likely one of you two.

[DaddyTorgo]

blah. doesn't seem like there's much hope of swaying anyone then.

[Blade6119]

Come on chief, start that write-up

[Raiders Army]

Blade, why wouldn't you go with the strategy I outlined above? If DT stays in jail he can't do anything. If the game isn't over when we lynch bulletsponge, then we know DT has to be the one. If we let him live another day, it would allow a potential good guy to live until the end or it would allow us another chance to kill a potential bad guy with no ramifications.

I'm confused here why you wouldn't go with that unless you think that Chief Rum wouldn't keep him in jail on the evidence that it was either him or DC that poisoned Barkeep...

[Raiders Army]

Don't make me duke the vote...

I'd like to hear why you wouldn't entertain that strategy.

[Blade6119]

Blade, why wouldn't you go with the strategy I outlined above? If DT stays in jail he can't do anything. If the game isn't over when we lynch bulletsponge, then we know DT has to be the one. If we let him live another day, it would allow a potential good guy to live until the end or it would allow us another chance to kill a potential bad guy with no ramifications.

I'm confused here why you wouldn't go with that unless you think that Chief Rum wouldn't keep him in jail on the evidence that it was either him or DC that poisoned Barkeep...
Becuase if we keep him in jail we cant put another person in jail tonight...id like to lynch 2 tomorrow as well if we dont win it today.

[Raiders Army]

On another note, I can duke the vote on a prison lynch right Chief? Or do I have to let him go to avoid the lynch?

If it's option one, then don't worry DT. Unless Blade comes up with a good reason you won't die tonight. If it's option two....sorry, but you're as good as dead because I won't allow a potential baddie to be released to kill someone good.

[Raiders Army]

Becuase if we keep him in jail we cant put another person in jail tonight...id like to lynch 2 tomorrow as well if we dont win it today.

I can put another person in jail tonight. It holds two. I'm not sure if we could lynch both of them as well as another lynch though...Chief?

[st.cronin]

Don't make me duke the vote...

I'd like to hear why you wouldn't entertain that strategy.

If you feel strongly enough, go ahead. But who would you duke the vote to? Swaggs? Hoopsguy? Izulde?

There just really aren't any other suspects. The last badguy has to be either bullet or DT. It's possible there was a conversion - but, I don't think there has been.

[Blade6119]

I can put another person in jail tonight. It holds two. I'm not sure if we could lynch both of them as well as another lynch though...Chief?
Hold 2 on the same charges? We have one killer left...i felt 2 applied to 2 different murders

[DaddyTorgo]

On another note, I can duke the vote on a prison lynch right Chief? Or do I have to let him go to avoid the lynch?

If it's option one, then don't worry DT. Unless Blade comes up with a good reason you won't die tonight. If it's option two....sorry, but you're as good as dead because I won't allow a potential baddie to be released to kill someone good.

let's hope it's option 1 then.

thanks RA.

[Blade6119]

RA, dont duke it...you will hurt our team if you do

[Raiders Army]

Unfortunately I can't duke the vote to someone else. It just saves that person. I believe I can hold two guys on the same charge since I don't need evidence to jail them.

[hoopsguy]

Blade and Cronin - why did you guys visit Path on back-to-back nights? I don't get that at all.

[hoopsguy]

We got confirmation from you, Path, and me that you guys looked at Path on Night 5 - so why did you go back to him again on Night 6? Not because you were worried about him being converted in between ... so what gives?

[DaddyTorgo]

We got confirmation from you, Path, and me that you guys looked at Path on Night 5 - so why did you go back to him again on Night 6? Not because you were worried about him being converted in between ... so what gives?

i'd like to know that too...:confused:

[Raiders Army]

I trust them explicitly. If they weren't the real Holmes and Watson, then someone else would've come forward to claim those roles.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, where did you and Blade head last night?

We went after path.

OK, so what was the timing on that? Did you speak to him and he was killed later? Because I'm the one that discovered the body ...

What district was Path in?

We interviewed him in Commercial prior to him being killed.

Dola

We recieved no information on the murder other than what was posted in thread by Chief Rum.

Anyone else in the district? Did you guys see me in Commercial?

Because I didn't see you guys - on three previous evenings I have seen you guys doing your interrogation. Last night I was in the district with you - with nothing in my PM or the night write-up that indicates particularly bad viewing conditions - and I do not encounter you interrogating Path. So I'm wondering what was different?

I did not notice you at all, but I haven't seen Blade's pm yet. We don't always get the same information.

No idea. Maybe something about path?

Cronin, please check your PM box...we need to talk about a few things in private

I'm really confused about this, guys. Please reply to this ASAP.

[hoopsguy]

Raiders, I'm just trying to understand an event that doesn't make sense to me right now.

Because I don't think that DT could have done the killing last night. The night description indicates he was arrested during dinner or something to that extent, as well as asking at the end if he could have committed a killing when he was in jail. I'll pull that stuff up, but if DT is the last killer it feels like Chief went through a decent amount of trouble in his write-up to cast more than reasonable doubt on this.

[Blade6119]

Hoops, for the time being id like to keep secret what actually went on last night...ill tell you when i deem it relevant, but for now its not important

[hoopsguy]

Despite the iffy nature of the lynch in the day time, the people of Whitechapel remain resolved to settle this matter within the next day or two. There are calls to arrest Daddy Torgo, as Dodgerchick's innocence can only mean he is guilty, can it not, they reasoned?

They will not wait around on the Chief of Inspectors, though. They have another night to try to pass alive. They return quietly to their homes to wait it out.

It is a quiet night, and not many are out except for the prostitutes--and the constables! They do indeed find DaddyTorgo in Whitechapel, getting some dinner, and they arrest him on the charge of suspicion of the murder of Barkeep! There is no incident in his arrest, and he is removed to the jail on Whitechapel Road.

The public remains inside while this is happening--but apparently that cannot keep them safe. Early in the wee morning hours, hoopsguy[/b[, working on a corner in Commercial, hears a door opening and closing repeatedly in the wind a block over from his spot for the night. He goes to investigate, and soon arrives at [B]path12's door.

Soon a hue and cry has been raised. path12 is dead! A dagger has been thrust into his heart, and his flat is torn up from the struggle.

And yet, DaddyTorgo was already in jail...

[b]NIGHT SIX NOW ENDS. DAY SIX NOW BEGINS. THE DEADLINE FOR VOTING AND DAY ACTIONS IS 10 P.M. EST/7 P.M. PDT. THE MINIMUM REQUIRED LYNCH NUMBERS IN THE REGULAR LYNCH IS TWO.

DADDYTORGO IS ALSO UP FOR LYNCHING.

Bold, italic, and underline are mine for emphasis.

[Raiders Army]

So would you say if I duked the vote against DT I would be making a mistake? At this point, I don't see the harm in laying our cards on the table.

[Chief Rum]

On another note, I can duke the vote on a prison lynch right Chief? Or do I have to let him go to avoid the lynch?

If it's option one, then don't worry DT. Unless Blade comes up with a good reason you won't die tonight. If it's option two....sorry, but you're as good as dead because I won't allow a potential baddie to be released to kill someone good.

The Chief of Inspectors can stop a prison lynch as well in much the same manner. Nothing I am saying here is to indicate whether Raiders Army is actually that role.

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, for the time being id like to keep secret what actually went on last night...ill tell you when i deem it relevant, but for now its not important

I more or less played along with this stuff earlier in the game, but I have no idea why you would take this approach now.

[hoopsguy]

I would prefer that we leave DT in jail for an extra day if that is an option.

[Chief Rum]

I can put another person in jail tonight. It holds two. I'm not sure if we could lynch both of them as well as another lynch though...Chief?

The jail holds two, and there is currently one open cell.

Anyone in jail can be lynched that day, regardless of what happens with the other occupant.

[DaddyTorgo]

I more or less played along with this stuff earlier in the game, but I have no idea why you would take this approach now.

agreed. could blade + cronin be sherlock+watson AND masons or something? there is absolutely no reason for the hiding of anything at this point. i didn't kill path. I didn't kill barkeep. but i'm starting to wonder why you two are being so secretive. If I had a vote tonight I would have to consider one/both of you.

where would the harm be in that? keep me in jail, lynch one of the two of them and maybe we'd find out why they were so secretive?

[Raiders Army]

So let's just leave DT alone for today and focus on bulletsponge. Wouldn't that make the most sense???

[Blade6119]

I more or less played along with this stuff earlier in the game, but I have no idea why you would take this approach now.

Because my partner deemed it important to...i frankly debated releasing some info, but were a team and his opinion of our two infos was some things are best kept to ourselves.

Especially if someone we trust is evil, which we would have learned if RA didnt duke DT...we have two people i dont trust to some extent, and both were to die today.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, at this point keeping your information to yourself is fostering undue suspicion if you are in fact who you say you are. I have not seen anything that clearly identifies you as Sherlock Holmes in the times that I have observed you. I've had reason to believe you are, based upon traveling with Cronin and the fact that your actions have led to removing bad guys, but I do not have direct evidence to support it.

When Cronin posts that you went to visit the guy that you visited the night before, and I was in the same district and didn't see you, I'm pretty sure that something is up. You tell me not to worry about it when we are down to eight players? C'mon - put yourself in my shoes here.

[Raiders Army]

agreed. could blade + cronin be sherlock+watson AND masons or something? there is absolutely no reason for the hiding of anything at this point. i didn't kill path. I didn't kill barkeep. but i'm starting to wonder why you two are being so secretive. If I had a vote tonight I would have to consider one/both of you.

where would the harm be in that? keep me in jail, lynch one of the two of them and maybe we'd find out why they were so secretive?

Ummm...you're really making a mistake here. Why lynch one of them when Moriarty is still out there? Huh???

[DaddyTorgo]

Blade, at this point keeping your information to yourself is fostering undue suspicion if you are in fact who you say you are. I have not seen anything that clearly identifies you as Sherlock Holmes in the times that I have observed you. I've had reason to believe you are, based upon traveling with Cronin and the fact that your actions have led to removing bad guys, but I do not have direct evidence to support it.

When Cronin posts that you went to visit the guy that you visited the night before, and I was in the same district and didn't see you, I'm pretty sure that something is up. You tell me not to worry about it when we are down to eight players? C'mon - put yourself in my shoes here.

very very suspicious i agree. no really, CR said that masons were around...could Blade+Cronin be masons (or even be holmes+watson AND ALSO be masons) with their own seperate victory conditions?

[Blade6119]

So let's just leave DT alone for today and focus on bulletsponge. Wouldn't that make the most sense???

Not to me and cronin...RA, we have trusted you all game(and mostly vice versa), and if one of us were converted you would know it. Your basically saying you would rather take DT and hoops' opinions over ours...2 totally uncleared players over two totally cleared players...

If we kill these two we should win(and both are the two remaining lovers of barkeep)...you have my opinion, and as holmes id like to see both DT and bullet die tonight

[Raiders Army]

I'm not saving you DT due to that. What's done is done.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ummm...you're really making a mistake here. Why lynch one of them when Moriarty is still out there? Huh???

because something doesn't add up with them, as hoops is saying.

[Raiders Army]

UNVOTE NO LYNCH DADDY TORGO
LYNCH DADDY TORGO

[Blade6119]

Ummm...you're really making a mistake here. Why lynch one of them when Moriarty is still out there? Huh???

And your trying to save him from a lynch...hes telling you to lynch us, when you know were still good. If they converted one of us the other would know, as we are always together. You would know if one of us fell to darkness, but there is DT suggesting

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm not saving you DT due to that. What's done is done.


i'm just saying RA...something doesn't add up. and like blade is saying, in a numbers game right now, we are so far ahead that we can almost afford that lynch to find out what the two of them are really up to.

[DaddyTorgo]

if you're both good blade, then why didn't hoops see you, that's all i'm asking. and why won't you share why you two visited path again? i don't even have a lynch vote, i'm not trying to get you two lynched, i just want you to answer the question.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, how would RA know if one or both of you had been converted?

Look, I'm just trying to figure out why you are taking the approach you are taking tonight. I'm not advocating lynching either of you guys at the moment, but I'm not backing down from asking questions this time.

If the group sees this as sufficient reason to come after me, then we'll be short one more Londoner. But the information you guys are presenting doesn't make any sense.

If you visited someone besides Path, they could come forward and say that you visited them last night. But no one is coming forward and you guys are not giving information about it despite both of you being in the thread.

[DaddyTorgo]

Blade, how would RA know if one or both of you had been converted?

Look, I'm just trying to figure out why you are taking the approach you are taking tonight. I'm not advocating lynching either of you guys at the moment, but I'm not backing down from asking questions this time.

If the group sees this as sufficient reason to come after me, then we'll be short one more Londoner. But the information you guys are presenting doesn't make any sense.

If you visited someone besides Path, they could come forward and say that you visited them last night. But no one is coming forward and you guys are not giving information about it despite both of you being in the thread.


what he said. i didn't say i wanted to lynch you blade. i just said i wanted you to answer the questions, that's all.

RA...don't lynch me! :(

[Raiders Army]

i'm just saying RA...something doesn't add up. and like blade is saying, in a numbers game right now, we are so far ahead that we can almost afford that lynch to find out what the two of them are really up to.

What really doesn't add up is that you could've kept your mouth shut. I was ready to save you had Blade not said something concrete and you had to come out of left field with that. Why would I vote to lynch someone who I have professed many times to be Holmes and Watson? The fact that Moriarty is out there and might not be bulletsponge is a huge factor because nobody knows for sure if bulletsponge is Moriarty. You two are the top suspects. Surely you can see where I'm coming from.

[Blade6119]

Blade, how would RA know if one or both of you had been converted?
Becuase if one of us was converted the other would know it. That person would then tell everyone else. We are always together, day and night...i see no way cronin could far to darkness without me knowing, especially with the unique bodyguard like power he possesses

[DaddyTorgo]

What really doesn't add up is that you could've kept your mouth shut. I was ready to save you had Blade not said something concrete and you had to come out of left field with that. Why would I vote to lynch someone who I have professed many times to be Holmes and Watson? The fact that Moriarty is out there and might not be bulletsponge is a huge factor because nobody knows for sure if bulletsponge is Moriarty. You two are the top suspects. Surely you can see where I'm coming from.

right. but even if they are holmes and watson, do we know for sure that they might not also be masons with their own victory conditions or up to something else? i'm not disputing they are holmes and watson, but something doesn't add up, and it's frustrating to me!

[DaddyTorgo]

i'd like to live to the end of the game...sure. but i'd also like to know WTF they are up to and being so secretive about.

[Raiders Army]

Actually I felt pretty safe about night 3 because I realized since I never went out that it would be hard for a baddie to kill me. ;)

Anyhow, I'm sticking with this unless someone has some hard evidence to sway me from my decisions.

[Raiders Army]

right. but even if they are holmes and watson, do we know for sure that they might not also be masons with their own victory conditions or up to something else? i'm not disputing they are holmes and watson, but something doesn't add up, and it's frustrating to me!

But why go after them when Moriarty is still out there? Answer that and I'll think about saving you.

[Raiders Army]

Actually I felt pretty safe about night 3 because I realized since I never went out that it would be hard for a baddie to kill me. ;)

Anyhow, I'm sticking with this unless someone has some hard evidence to sway me from my decisions.

Also, it's pretty ironic since I was the Chief of Inspections at West Point in my last job.

[DaddyTorgo]

and maybe i just see my death as inevitable if bulletsponge comes up clean...and if he doesn't then it's not that the end of the world that i didn't live till the end of the game.

living would be nice though, don't get me wrong.

[Blade6119]

right. but even if they are holmes and watson, do we know for sure that they might not also be masons with their own victory conditions or up to something else? i'm not disputing they are holmes and watson, but something doesn't add up, and it's frustrating to me!
Do you really believe they would grant two of the biggest roles for good additional roles to harm good? That would greatly unbalance the game DT...we have you dubb, saldana, and helped with Lathum and LSG(it was me who said i didnt believe her when she confirmed my saldana story and said she was likely still my top suspect). If we werent with good, we wouldnt be anywhere near this close to victory. Neither dubb nor saldana were going to get lynched if we didnt say anyting...DT, you killed yourself there, sorry

[Raiders Army]

and maybe i just see my death as inevitable if bulletsponge comes up clean...and if he doesn't then it's not that the end of the world that i didn't live till the end of the game.

living would be nice though, don't get me wrong.

If bullet does come up as clean, why go after a mason? If you had directed your vote towards hoops or swaggs it would've made more sense to me. Maybe you didn't realize how much I trusted blade and cronin. *shrug*

[hoopsguy]

Blade, I don't know how to respond to that - it is based on information that is specific to your role PM and there isn't anyone else who can vouch for it.

I'm much more interested in understanding what happened with you two last night. I certainly wasn't asking for you to not scan DT so you could go back to the guy you had scanned the night before. And the circumstances around it (him dead, me not seeing you two) look really lousy as well.

Your actions have earned a good amount of trust so far this game - which is why I'm trying to talk this out instead of pushing harder. But your refusal to discuss it has the look of a bad guy who realize he screwed up right now. We've made it seven days without a major Blade/Hoops throwdown and I wasn't looking to have one right now. Just answer the questions about last night and we don't need to have one tonight either.

[DaddyTorgo]

But why go after them when Moriarty is still out there? Answer that and I'll think about saving you.

i don't want to GO AFTER THEM. i just want them to tell us what they're being so secretive about. and voting being the only weapon that there is in this game to force people to talk, what i MEANT was that that type of pressure might force them to tell us why they're being secretive. if they'd just come right out and say it that'd be fine, but they won't. I'm just wary of CR's description of masons, and how they could be working for either side, implying they have their own victory conditions, and if there are masons then I wouldn't want to see them win because we rushed to lynch me when I could just as easily sit in jail for another day.

[st.cronin]

st.cronin: Hoopsguy, in the games when you have a bodyguard, were you always completely open with the village about your movements?

Hoopsguy: um, no

st.cronin: ok then

[Raiders Army]

I personally don't think he needs to explain himself to you. DT made a mistake; a fatal one. Your behavior is only putting the target on you if the game doesn't end tonight.

[DaddyTorgo]

If bullet does come up as clean, why go after a mason? If you had directed your vote towards hoops or swaggs it would've made more sense to me. Maybe you didn't realize how much I trusted blade and cronin. *shrug*

i don't have a vote. you have me in jail. i just want answers.

[Raiders Army]

Also, I have another theory to share after the game is over tonight. Remind me to share with y'all...including Chief Rum.

[Blade6119]

Blade, I don't know how to respond to that - it is based on information that is specific to your role PM and there isn't anyone else who can vouch for it.

I'm much more interested in understanding what happened with you two last night. I certainly wasn't asking for you to not scan DT so you could go back to the guy you had scanned the night before. And the circumstances around it (him dead, me not seeing you two) look really lousy as well.

Your actions have earned a good amount of trust so far this game - which is why I'm trying to talk this out instead of pushing harder. But your refusal to discuss it has the look of a bad guy who realize he screwed up right now. We've made it seven days without a major Blade/Hoops throwdown and I wasn't looking to have one right now. Just answer the questions about last night and we don't need to have one tonight either.
If you still dont trust me after i was one of the top two pushers for ALL 4 dead bad guys, then nothing i say now will convince you. No offense, you can try all you want but ive told you what im willing to tell you. You can suspect, accuse, or pick a fight. You will find me quite unresponsive. There will be no major hoops/blade throwdown today, becuase quite frankly i wont enter into one with you.

[hoopsguy]

Raiders, I would think the target would shift to me if DT is a bad guy and the game doesn't end tonight because I would be potentially trying to protect him.

But I'm not doing that - I'm trying to understand why our seer and partner are lying to us in a manner that makes them look guilty.

Cronin, in the times that I was a bodyguard I didn't leak fake information after the fact - I just withheld who my last protection was in games where I couldn't guard the same people twice. I get that Blade plays fast and loose with information, but what is the value-add in keeping this info to himself and you telling a lie that is pretty easily disproved?

[hoopsguy]

Fine. When the game does not end tonight come scan me.

If the game does end tonight, I'll apologize for introducing doubt near the end of the game although I don't know what information you could possibly have collected last night that would explain how you two are playing right now. I guess it is a topic for the post-game.

[Raiders Army]

I think the game is over tonight from what I've seen.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think the game is over tonight from what I've seen.


??

[st.cronin]

Raiders, I would think the target would shift to me if DT is a bad guy and the game doesn't end tonight because I would be potentially trying to protect him.

But I'm not doing that - I'm trying to understand why our seer and partner are lying to us in a manner that makes them look guilty.

Cronin, in the times that I was a bodyguard I didn't leak fake information after the fact - I just withheld who my last protection was in games where I couldn't guard the same people twice. I get that Blade plays fast and loose with information, but what is the value-add in keeping this info to himself and you telling a lie that is pretty easily disproved?

The short answer is that we suspect that there are counter-measures to some things we may do.

[hoopsguy]

Raiders, I can certainly come up with scenarios where lynching two tonight could end very badly (Blade/Cronin are converted as a pair???) but I think they are pretty remote and that we will have the luxury of getting it right tomorrow if we screw up today.

That doesn't mean I like how this is playing out at all.

[DaddyTorgo]

The short answer is that we suspect that there are counter-measures to some things we may do.


aaaah. well that's certainly understandable then. you could have come out awhile back and said that and saved my neck though!

[Blade6119]

I hope it is...if moriarty is the last evil, it should be DT...if its a conversion, we will likely have to win tomorrow or the day after if only 1 is left. Hoops was a very attractive conversion target, as was izulde and swaggs(if converted on nights after he was cleared). Tomorrow, if game does not end today, we will have(not counting any night attempts):

Special:
Raiders
Cronin
Blade

Hooker:
Hoops
Izulde

Reg:
Swaggs

If we can lynch two of those bottom 3, we shold win...if not, we go to the next day and kill the 3rd...numbers game, see?

[Raiders Army]

??

I'll explain after the game is over.

[hoopsguy]

If DT is telling the truth, then Bullet had two shots at harming Barkeep (this is based upon Blade/Dubb info on poisoning as cause of death, as it was not spelled out publicly).

VOTE BULLETSPONGE

[DaddyTorgo]

I'll explain after the game is over.

still determined to kill me?

[Raiders Army]

still determined to kill me?

Ya. My theory is based on out of game stuff that I have observed tonight but I'm still letting you die (and voting to lynch you) based on what you've said.

[hoopsguy]

Izulde and Swaggs - I'm interested in your thoughts on how the events of the last couple of hours have played out.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ya. My theory is based on out of game stuff that I have observed tonight but I'm still letting you die (and voting to lynch you) based on what you've said.

theory?

what have i said? that the blade/cronin secretiveness makes me uncomfortable? even if they are good, don't you still want to know what they're up to?

i wasn't seriously arguing that we lynch one of them. more like wondering what they were up to.

[Blade6119]

And im pretty sure i decided who i want to scan already if we dont win today, so im looking forward to these lynch results.

[st.cronin]

RA, can you put TWO people in prison? Or is it just one per night?

[Raiders Army]

theory?

what have i said? that the blade/cronin secretiveness makes me uncomfortable? even if they are good, don't you still want to know what they're up to?

i wasn't seriously arguing that we lynch one of them. more like wondering what they were up to.

Sorry to confuse, but my theory that the game is going to end tonight is based on out of game events. That being siad, their secretiveness doesn't make me uncomfortable until we kill Moriarty.

[Raiders Army]

RA, can you put TWO people in prison? Or is it just one per night?

One per night, but two can be in prison at a time.

[Blade6119]

RA, can you put TWO people in prison? Or is it just one per night?

Thinking toss 2 in prison tonight so we can lynch all 3 tomorrow? Interesting idea

[Blade6119]

nm, RA said nope

[DaddyTorgo]

Sorry to confuse, but my theory that the game is going to end tonight is based on out of game events. That being siad, their secretiveness doesn't make me uncomfortable until we kill Moriarty.


what out-of-game events?

now i'm just really curious.

right, and we do need to kill moriarity first, but there's no reason we can't at least like...ask the questions of them now. it's not like we can't pursue 2 agendas.

[hoopsguy]

K, out until after results are posted. Hopefully returning to a post-game ...

[Raiders Army]

We'll find out here in a few minutes what happens!

[Blade6119]

what out-of-game events?

now i'm just really curious.

right, and we do need to kill moriarity first, but there's no reason we can't at least like...ask the questions of them now. it's not like we can't pursue 2 agendas.
You say quite clearly to kill us..thats not ask questions, thats flat out telling them to kill us:
keep me in jail, lynch one of the two of them and maybe we'd find out why they were so secretive?

[Chief Rum]

Time check.

[Blade6119]

We'll find out here in a few minutes what happens!

Raiders, any thoughts on tonight's scan?

[DaddyTorgo]

You say quite clearly to kill us..thats not ask questions, thats flat out telling them to kill us:

it was a question though...see the ? on it. trying to put pressure on you two to find out what you're up to that's all!

[Raiders Army]

Raiders, any thoughts on tonight's scan?
Nope. I think the game's over.

[Swaggs]

Izulde and Swaggs - I'm interested in your thoughts on how the events of the last couple of hours have played out.

I just had to breeze through, but I think we are making the right move tonight. Unless we think hookers can be converted, I don't know where else to go, other than DT and/or bullet.

As I said earlier, I will be happy to visit one of you all tonight if you tell me where.

[st.cronin]

Nope. I think the game's over.

"

[Raiders Army]

Anyhow, I thought the game was over since Chief Rum was in the thread for the past hour or so off and on...mostly on. I don't believe he's stuck around that much for a deadline before.

[Chief Rum]

Deadline. Writeup coming.

[DaddyTorgo]

:mad:

[Blade6119]

Anyhow, I thought the game was over since Chief Rum was in the thread for the past hour or so off and on...mostly on. I don't believe he's stuck around that much for a deadline before.

lol, thats a very bad reason to assume its over. He has been answering some questions i had about mechanics, so thats a possibility for why he was around.

[Raiders Army]

*shurg*

[Swaggs]

If we win, I feel like this will be the least I ever contributed to a WW game w/o getting killed very early.

[Izulde]

I wasn't moving my vote off of lynching both no matter what, so the discussions of the past few hours were largely immaterial to me.

[Raiders Army]

I wasn't moving my vote off of lynching both no matter what, so the discussions of the past few hours were largely immaterial to me.

So what you're telling us is that you're not a Material Girl?

[Izulde]

So what you're telling us is that you're not a Material Girl?

No, but being a Victorian working girl, I am a pre-Madonna.

[st.cronin]

No, but being a Victorian working girl, I am a pre-Madonna.

not bad

[Raiders Army]

No, but being a Victorian working girl, I am a pre-Madonna.

I would've gotten the joke more, but I am seriously deficient in History...although I did pick up two History DVDs this past weekend: History of the WWE Championship and the Oakland Raiders History.

[Swaggs]

No, but being a Victorian working girl, I am a pre-Madonna.

Solid.

[Izulde]

I would've gotten the joke more, but I am seriously deficient in History...although I did pick up two History DVDs this past weekend: History of the WWE Championship and the Oakland Raiders History.

what better wwe history or oakland raider history?

Does jbmagic narrate the Oakland Raiders DVD? :D

[Izulde]

And thanks for the kudos on my pun, guys. :)

[st.cronin]

ww history > wwe history

[Raiders Army]

what better wwe history or oakland raider history?

Does jbmagic narrate the Oakland Raiders DVD? :D

FWIW, I gotta cut him some slack being part of the Raider Nation. ;)

[Chief Rum]

Just a day ago, the mob spent much of the day split on what to do.

Today, there seems little doubt. DaddyTorgo is considered by most to be the lead suspect in Barkeep's poisoning. There is less evidence for bulletsponge, but at this point, the mob will hang you for as little as not being around much.

A naysayer here or there would not dissuade them, and as the sun edged close to the western horizon, the mob called for the constables to fetch DaddyTorgo.

Bulletsponge was nowhere to be seen, though. A few Londoners went on the hunt for him, searching his home and the Cavell district where he lived. They at least found him hiding in an alley there. They grabbed him and dragged him kicking and screaming to Whitechapel Road, where DaddyTorgo was already being fit for his noose.

Soon, bulletsponge is standing side by side with DaddyTorgo, looking fate in the eyes. bulletsponge was blinking back fear, while DaddyTorgo just grinned sardonically.

Bulletsponge went first, yanked up into the air by a rope over a lamp post. He struggled mightily, trying to break the grip, swinging about. It did him little good. He was soon dead. The mob searched him carefully and found a knife. One of the constables inspected the knife and announced that it was indeed the knife that killed path12!

But evil is not gone from Whitechapel, and there is another person on the block. The mob make to pull up DaddyTorgo's rope when he yells, "None of you are worthy to kill me."

With that, he takes out his cane, which the constables had allowed him to walk out on, and sweeps off the wood casing, revealing a bright, gleaming sword! The mob tenses for his move, but they need not have. His eyes have the look of madness as he waves his sword briefly at the crowd, before plunging it into his own chest!

He does not make a sound, as he falls to the ground. And his sardonic smile never falters from his face as he dies on the cobblestones of Whitechapel Road. DaddyTorgo is dead.

Although no one in the mob can tell why they feel this way, but his death immediately removes a pall from the crowd and the district. Evil has been vanquished! The last of the killers is gone!

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE SIDE OF GOOD. YOU HAVE REMOVED EVIL FROM WHITECHAPEL DISTRICT AND WON THE GAME.

[DaddyTorgo]

HAHHHH!!!! NONE OF YOUR LYNCHING FOR ME!!! NONE OF YOU ARE FIT TO KILL PROFESSOR MORIARITY!!!

[Blade6119]

GOOD GAME EVERYONE!!!

[Chief Rum]

lol, thats a very bad reason to assume its over. He has been answering some questions i had about mechanics, so thats a possibility for why he was around.

Actually I have been around on a number of nights, including last night. I couldn't be around for various reasons on some of the first nights (mostly work related), meaning I had to "drop in" for the lynch. I would have been around tonight if the game ended or not.

[DaddyTorgo]

GOOD GAME EVERYONE!!!

cept for evil. we really screwed the pooch and we also got unlucky a few times with die rolls as well as lathum getting picked off day 1.

[Raiders Army]

gg guys. Nice job in the end.

[path12]

Woot! OK, so why did you guys visit me again last night and what did you find out?

[Raiders Army]

Could you guys communicate? Also, could any of them kill me?

Edit--Could you bad guys communicate?

[DaddyTorgo]

Could you guys communicate? Also, could any of them kill me?

we could all communicate except for lathum. he was on his own, but we knew who he was.

i don't think we had any restrictions against killing any of you, at least i know i didn't.

bullet was our conversion, lot of good that did us.

[Blade6119]

cept for evil. we really screwed the pooch and we also got unlucky a few times with die rolls as well as lathum getting picked off day 1.

Lathum got picked off day 2, but you guys picked off NTN day 2...so it balances

[DaddyTorgo]

Lathum got picked off day 2, but you guys picked off NTN day 2...so it balances

cept lathum would have been an invaluable prostitue-killing machine, with him gone we had to split between killing prostitues and killing others. in hindsight we didn't get to the prostitues fast enough of course.

also losing control of hyde hurt us...i was on record as saying hyde needed to take a day off before he lost control of himself, but i was ignored.

then again i suppose i could have played the endgame better, but i think it was pretty much lose-lose

[path12]

Here is a list of all the 100% vouches that have occured so far in the 33 pages I just went through -- if there are any mistakes or clarifications let me know. I've tried to stay away from any vouch that was not a certainty.

Barkeep -- vouched for by bulletsponge, path, hoops, RA and Swaggs.
Blade -- vouched for by MrW and RA.
bulletsponge -- vouched for by Barkeep.
path12 -- vouched for by bulletsponge and RA. (I hadn't realized that).
st.cronin -- vouched for by RA.
hoopsguy -- vouched for by path, MrW, AlanT, Barkeep and RA.
Dodgerchick -- vouched for by Izulde.
Raiders Army -- vouched for by Blade and st.cronin.
Swaggs -- vouched for by Blade.
Izulde -- vouched for by Fouts, MrW, dubb, and Dodgerchick.

That leaves the following as not having been 100% vouched for by anyone:
DaddyTorgo
saldana
LoneStarGirl
dubb93

BTW, I just want to point out that I am very proud of this post in hindsight.

[Raiders Army]

Not being picky, but Moriarty, Fagin, the WW, and Hyde were all able to communicate? Wow. I'm surprised we won.

[st.cronin]

Woot! OK, so why did you guys visit me again last night and what did you find out?

We didn't, actually. We messed up and forgot to send in a night order. We were trying to keep it a secret that we automatically investigated all crime scenes and got clues from them.

[DaddyTorgo]

BTW, I just want to point out that I am very proud of this post in hindsight.

yeah. at that point i think i PMed dubb and i was like "path just f*cked us"

[Raiders Army]

BTW, I just want to point out that I am very proud of this post in hindsight.

*pats back*

That was a pretty good analysis. I think the prostitutes were key to winning the game.

[Izulde]

Great game, guys. :) Two wins in a row! Of course, the last win was mostly Alan T's doing. This win I actually feel like I contributed some worthwhile things. :)

[Lathum]

CR- Thanks for running the game, I can tell you put alot of work into it so I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way.


I was really pissed off at everyone saying I messed up etc....

I just don't understand the mechanic in the game when there is a killing and 4 of us are in one sector. 3 of them run to Mr. Wed screams, hoops can identify all 4 people in the sector then Mr. Wed can identify the 3 people who responded. It makes it impossible for me to survive that.

[st.cronin]

Also, Blade was Watson and I was Holmes.

[Blade6119]

Cronin was holmes, i was watson...watson had no bodyguard powers. From the start i took the spotlight and eventually claimed holmes all to cover cronin. I figured eventually you would want to kill the one seer alive, but would miss and kill me. But you guys never came, which still suprises me.

Every murder we would visit...we investigated every crime scene and learned things from each. Thats how we bagged saldana that night, from our inspection of scmidty's body...thats whow we knew barkeep was killed by a lover, becuase he found a rash on his/her back which made it clear.

Last night we had communication issues..he asked me to send a scan in(since he said he was gone for the night about an hour before lynch), and i typed an order up. Right when i was going to send it in, he showed up(about 4 hours past lynch)...so we talked, and decided on scanning DT. Unfortunately, we both thought the other was going to send the order in. Cronin posted a the story about path, and despite my disagreement personally with that i had to follow along in public. We hoped maybe the bad guys would think we had something but wanted to wait...

[path12]

We didn't, actually. We messed up and forgot to send in a night order. We were trying to keep it a secret that we automatically investigated all crime scenes and got clues from them.

I was wondering because I didn't get any PM last night and if you had visited I thought I would have.....

[Raiders Army]

Also, Blade was Watson and I was Holmes.

Nice job doing a Superman II there. :D

[Chief Rum]

GOOD

Sherlock Holmes-- St. cronin
Watson-- Blade
ntndeacon-- Inspector Lestrade
Raiders Army-- Chief of Inspectors
MrWednesday-- Night Watchman

THE TOWNFOLK

PROSTITUTES

Hoopsguy
Izulde
Barkeep49
SnDvls

URCHINS

Schmidty
Jonathon Ezarik

LONDONERS

Swaggs
Bulletsponge (converted to evil on Night Three)
Dodgerchick
Path12
AlanT
Fouts
BrianD
Tyrith

EVIL

Lathum-- Jack The Ripper
saldana-- Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde
DaddyTorgo-- Professor Moriarty
LoneStarGirl-- Fagin
dubb93-- American Werewolf

[Blade6119]

CR- Thanks for running the game, I can tell you put alot of work into it so I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way.


I was really pissed off at everyone saying I messed up etc....

I just don't understand the mechanic in the game when there is a killing and 4 of us are in one sector. 3 of them run to Mr. Wed screams, hoops can identify all 4 people in the sector then Mr. Wed can identify the 3 people who responded. It makes it impossible for me to survive that.
Well, the 3 of us had been in a meeting and all 3 were special roles for good. It was actually just as bad for us as you with all the attention it drew. Your team just didnt make the same jump we did.

[st.cronin]

CR- Thanks for running the game, I can tell you put alot of work into it so I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way.


I was really pissed off at everyone saying I messed up etc....

I just don't understand the mechanic in the game when there is a killing and 4 of us are in one sector. 3 of them run to Mr. Wed screams, hoops can identify all 4 people in the sector then Mr. Wed can identify the 3 people who responded. It makes it impossible for me to survive that.

Is this the same mechanic that almost got Barkeep lynched?

[DaddyTorgo]

Also, Blade was Watson and I was Holmes.

FWIW Path...that spot-on analysis earned you bullet's knife last night, and i was gunning for Blade before I was arrested last night (i figured I'd at least give CR the chance to write that showdown if I made it there before i was arrested).

and tonight i pretty much knew it was over. either today or tomorrow, and what's the possible value in surviving another day just to be lynched tomorrow.

[Chief Rum]

Could you guys communicate? Also, could any of them kill me?

Edit--Could you bad guys communicate?

path12 and Tyrith both died in their homes. Yes, had you been targeted, you could have been killed, and being holed up in your room would not have saved you.

[Raiders Army]

So who were the freemasons? Or was that just a ruse?

[Chief Rum]

yeah. at that point i think i PMed dubb and i was like "path just f*cked us"

Yeah, I remember that post, too, and thinking, "heh heh bang on."

[Izulde]

Also, Blade was Watson and I was Holmes.


Nice switch there. I was firmly convinced it was the other way around.

[Lathum]

Well, the 3 of us had been in a meeting and all 3 were special roles for good. It was actually just as bad for us as you with all the attention it drew. Your team just didnt make the same jump we did.

i don't really understand this post. MY point is that early in werewolf anything that sets you apart probably gets you killed so the fact that i was seperated from anyone else pretty much doomed me. Compound that with the fact people were saying I screwed up I was in a surly mood.

[st.cronin]

Blade and I had a lot of fun.

[Chief Rum]

CR- Thanks for running the game, I can tell you put alot of work into it so I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way.


I was really pissed off at everyone saying I messed up etc....

I just don't understand the mechanic in the game when there is a killing and 4 of us are in one sector. 3 of them run to Mr. Wed screams, hoops can identify all 4 people in the sector then Mr. Wed can identify the 3 people who responded. It makes it impossible for me to survive that.

People had different chances to see people based on how long they stayed in a district. hoops was in Cavell all night, Mr Wednesday only part of it.

Just bad luck it went that way, although I also thought there were plenty of ways to spin that, too. Really, if you're in any district and you're not on a kill run, there is a pretty good chance you will be seen and you should just say so.

If you were on a kill that night, Lathum, you would have been much harder to see, but you were opnly in the first ohase of looking for prostitutes, unfortunately.

[Raiders Army]

I believe he was talking about ntndeacon getting scanned by holmes and watson. It was just dumb luck that it was three good guys talking together.

[Izulde]

I almost was going to try and get you lynched at one point, st. cronin. After you started saying people should vote to lynch me and knowing I was good, I instantly became suspicious of you.

[Raiders Army]

People had different chances to see people based on how long they stayed in a district. hoops was in Cavell all night, Mr Wednesday only part of it.

Just bad luck it went that way, although I also thought there were plenty of ways to spin that, too. Really, if you're in any district and you're not on a kill run, there is a pretty good chance you will be seen and you should just say so.

If you were on a kill that night, Lathum, you would have been much harder to see, but you were opnly in the first ohase of looking for prostitutes, unfortunately.
Again, that same night ntndeacon was checking out hoops so that was why he was in that area.

[path12]

FWIW Path...that spot-on analysis earned you bullet's knife last night, and i was gunning for Blade before I was arrested last night (i figured I'd at least give CR the chance to write that showdown if I made it there before i was arrested).

and tonight i pretty much knew it was over. either today or tomorrow, and what's the possible value in surviving another day just to be lynched tomorrow.

If I would have lived I was going hard after you today.

[Lathum]

thats because I had to idetify a prostitute first. It just seems it would have made more sense for me to run along with the group. I had no chance of survival after that

[Blade6119]

i don't really understand this post. MY point is that early in werewolf anything that sets you apart probably gets you killed so the fact that i was seperated from anyone else pretty much doomed me. Compound that with the fact people were saying I screwed up I was in a surly mood.
Becuase both seers our side had were confirmed to have met eachother on night 1, as well as watson. Then, NTN comes up dead as a seer and raider immediately trusts cronin and I. I felt it was blatantly obvious who we were.

Then, to add on to it, hoopsguy kept demanding answers about why he had seen cronin and in meeting with people at night...i was sure you guys would kill us then and there, but you all never did.

But lathum, as bad as it was for you to be singled out it was just as bad for NTN, cronin, and i to be grouped, coupled with NTNs death, RAs trust, and Hoops sightings...all game i was wondering what you were waiting for

[Chief Rum]

CR- Thanks for running the game, I can tell you put alot of work into it so I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way.


I was really pissed off at everyone saying I messed up etc....

I just don't understand the mechanic in the game when there is a killing and 4 of us are in one sector. 3 of them run to Mr. Wed screams, hoops can identify all 4 people in the sector then Mr. Wed can identify the 3 people who responded. It makes it impossible for me to survive that.

And you had also already left Cavell when Tyrith bought it. IIRC (I'll have to look it up), only hoops and Schmidty were actually in Cavell when Tyrith died. Well, and dubb93.

[Blade6119]

thats because I had to idetify a prostitute first. It just seems it would have made more sense for me to run along with the group. I had no chance of survival after that

But the group was the 3 people who just had a secret meeting between 2 seers...that doesnt make sense for you either to follow them

[Blade6119]

Blade and I had a lot of fun.

Thanks for all the talks cronin, i had to clear out my PM box like 4 times from all our PMs.

I had a great time working with ya, thanks for the fun buddy :)

[st.cronin]

I almost was going to try and get you lynched at one point, st. cronin. After you started saying people should vote to lynch me and knowing I was good, I instantly became suspicious of you.

This is a common mistake in werewolf, confusing the statement "that player is wrong" with "that player is a wolf." I do it myself, fairly often.

[Chief Rum]

Cronin was holmes, i was watson...watson had no bodyguard powers. From the start i took the spotlight and eventually claimed holmes all to cover cronin. I figured eventually you would want to kill the one seer alive, but would miss and kill me. But you guys never came, which still suprises me.

Every murder we would visit...we investigated every crime scene and learned things from each. Thats how we bagged saldana that night, from our inspection of scmidty's body...thats whow we knew barkeep was killed by a lover, becuase he found a rash on his/her back which made it clear.

Last night we had communication issues..he asked me to send a scan in(since he said he was gone for the night about an hour before lynch), and i typed an order up. Right when i was going to send it in, he showed up(about 4 hours past lynch)...so we talked, and decided on scanning DT. Unfortunately, we both thought the other was going to send the order in. Cronin posted a the story about path, and despite my disagreement personally with that i had to follow along in public. We hoped maybe the bad guys would think we had something but wanted to wait...

Actually Watson did have BG ability...on Holmes. If Holmes was attacked, Watson would buy it for his friend and partner. And Holmes, in his grief, would be twice as sharp in picking up clues.

You got saldana because it was the third kill by Hyde you had investidated. Chances of identifying the killer increased with every murder by the same murderer. Getting dubb was just luck. st. cronin had a 1 in 5 chance of spotting an evil character in an interview, and he rolled it up on dubb.

[dubb93]

Not being picky, but Moriarty, Fagin, the WW, and Hyde were all able to communicate? Wow. I'm surprised we won.

You do realize in this game there were 2 seers and one of the seers was actually two people and the two could talk and then 4 "semi" seers, right? I think the game was balanced slighly wrong, however I'd play it again. I don't think Chief had dreamed Lathum would have died so early. Even when you guys lost a seer in NTN, I think you have no clue the effect of Lathum dieing had. It allowed the "semi" seers to share their scans or "johns" in public.

Add to the fact that the only person we had that could kill every night was Saldana, we didn't get team kills like in normal games. It pretty much came down to die rolls IMHO. So yea, had Lathum survived we had a shot, once Lathum was gone the game balance went completely out the window. I also think the entire night scene of seeing everyone out and about made the game even more stacked against up.

If me or Sal made a kill we weren't seen out, anywhere in normal form(which draws attention from everyone). After LSG's urchins died, she could no longer leave the house, and in order for Daddy to visit a whore he had to forgo his evil night actions. And I still think it all goes back to the game balance going out the window once Lathum died. The whores won the game with their information. But that was a great play by Hoops to nail Lathum.

[st.cronin]

Becuase both seers our side had were confirmed to have met eachother on night 1, as well as watson. Then, NTN comes up dead as a seer and raider immediately trusts cronin and I. I felt it was blatantly obvious who we were.

Then, to add on to it, hoopsguy kept demanding answers about why he had seen cronin and in meeting with people at night...i was sure you guys would kill us then and there, but you all never did.

But lathum, as bad as it was for you to be singled out it was just as bad for NTN, cronin, and i to be grouped, coupled with NTNs death, RAs trust, and Hoops sightings...all game i was wondering what you were waiting for

ditto

[dubb93]

You got saldana because it was the third kill by Hyde you had investidated. Chances of identifying the killer increased with every murder by the same murderer.

Are you freakin serious? That is complete bullshit.

[DaddyTorgo]

You do realize in this game there were 2 seers and one of the seers was actually two people and the two could talk and then 4 "semi" seers, right? I think the game was balanced slighly wrong, however I'd play it again. I don't think Chief had dreamed Lathum would have died so early. Even when you guys lost a seer in NTN, I think you have no clue the effect of Lathum dieing had. It allowed the "semi" seers to share their scans or "johns" in public.

Add to the fact that the only person we had that could kill every night was Saldana, we didn't get team kills like in normal games. It pretty much came down to die rolls IMHO. So yea, had Lathum survived we had a shot, once Lathum was gone the game balance went completely out the window. I also think the entire night scene of seeing everyone out and about made the game even more stacked against up.

If me or Sal made a kill we weren't seen out, anywhere in normal form(which draws attention from everyone). After LSG's urchins died, she could no longer leave the house, and in order for Daddy to visit a whore he had to forgo his evil night actions. And I still think it all goes back to the game balance going out the window once Lathum died. The whores won the game with their information. But that was a great play by Hoops to nail Lathum.

agreed. dubb and i said this several times early on, that the game balance seemed off. and he just articulated why quite eloquently so I will just say that i agree with everything he said regarding that. and that's not just sour grapes...sure we could have played better and possibly won, but at heart I think the game balance was stacked against us, and the loss of lathum on night 2 (before he could have any effect) just made it near-impossible for us.

[Blade6119]

You do realize in this game there were 2 seers and one of the seers was actually two people and the two could talk and then 4 "semi" seers, right? I think the game was balanced slighly wrong, however I'd play it again. I don't think Chief had dreamed Lathum would have died so early. Even when you guys lost a seer in NTN, I think you have no clue the effect of Lathum dieing had. It allowed the "semi" seers to share their scans or "johns" in public.

Add to the fact that the only person we had that could kill every night was Saldana, we didn't get team kills like in normal games. It pretty much came down to die rolls IMHO. So yea, had Lathum survived we had a shot, once Lathum was gone the game balance went completely out the window. I also think the entire night scene of seeing everyone out and about made the game even more stacked against up.

If me or Sal made a kill we weren't seen out, anywhere in normal form(which draws attention from everyone). After LSG's urchins died, she could no longer leave the house, and in order for Daddy to visit a whore he had to forgo his evil night actions. And I still think it all goes back to the game balance going out the window once Lathum died. The whores won the game with their information. But that was a great play by Hoops to nail Lathum.

Dubb, with this being true, you werent as screwed as you think:
st. cronin had a 1 in 5 chance of spotting an evil character in an interview, and he rolled it up on dubb.
Dice rolls fell in our favor, but the balance was actually there..you guys just got unlucky and made some "interesting" night kill choices.

Can you all tell me why all game(well, after NTN on night 2) you killed the regular villagers and 1 hooker? It seemed clear to me RA, cronin, and i were widely accepted as the 3 specials, and the 3 of us won the game.

Without being able to arrest and double lynch, we wouldnt have had LSG or DT this quickly, and without cronins seer powers we wouldnt have had dubb, saldana, and really lathum since he got caught in part because our scan of NTN.

So basically, why did you any of the 3 of us?

[Blade6119]

Are you freakin serious? That is complete bullshit.

Thats what we never revealed, and i said it a bit ago.

Now you know why i was soo for the bad guys killing constantly, we would catch you.

[dubb93]

I mean seriously, I would bye the fact that Blade was watching the area of Sal's murder. But to hand it to him? Thats not a good mechanic at all, and I really wish I hadn't heard that. How were we supposed to kill them off then? I assume there was a stipulation where when the side of good lynched an innocent they risked losing a random member too? Or risked losing a day to lynch? I chalked that up to a good play by Blade to be in the right place at the right time, but you handed it to him?

[Raiders Army]

also, what about the masons?

[Chief Rum]

So who were the freemasons? Or was that just a ruse?

No ruse, but no masons to start the game. If a Londoner got to 20 shillings and kept it at that level or higher for a night, he would be offered to join the freemasons. Only thing was he couldn't have committed to evil yet (been converted).

A mason had a number of powers. He could command RA to arrest anyone or release anyone. He could put anyone's head in a noose (the other side of the duke power that I did not give to RA). He could frame someone for a crime once a game, much like Moriarty had, and his frame would stick. And he would not be able to be lynched.

Dodgerchick came closest after robbing Barkeep. She would have been offered last night if you hadn't lynched her.

Oh yeah, and the win condition was as listed--to survive. And the mason could choose to help whomever they wanted. One mason per game.

[Blade6119]

agreed. dubb and i said this several times early on, that the game balance seemed off. and he just articulated why quite eloquently so I will just say that i agree with everything he said regarding that. and that's not just sour grapes...sure we could have played better and possibly won, but at heart I think the game balance was stacked against us, and the loss of lathum on night 2 (before he could have any effect) just made it near-impossible for us.

We lost one of our seers night 2(same as lathum), our other seer had a 1 in 5, i repeat 1 in 5 chance of catching a bad guy if we scanned him, and the only real power we had was that we could investigate crime scenes. That netted us 1, 1 bad guy.

You had 5, really 6 killers...you could all communicate(minus lathum, but you knew him and he died early), and all 3 good specials were pretty obvious in hinting

[Swaggs]

Also, Blade was Watson and I was Holmes.

I suspected this after the first few days. It was a good play, in my opinion.

[st.cronin]

Killing path was the nail in the coffin. Hoopsguy or Izulde would have been better choices, and Blade and I would have been VASTLY better choices. Had you come after either myself or Blade, you might have been able to pull out a win.

The game was still within reach at that point.

[dubb93]

So basically, why did you any of the 3 of us?

We all made the decisions ourselves on who to kill and argued about it quite a bit. However, once Sal died we were down to no real killers. Like I said, Sal was the only one who could kill every night. Heck, I only got 1 kill.

LSG only got 1 kill, and DT only got 2 kills. We didn't kill you b/c by that point we couldn't. Simple as that.

[DaddyTorgo]

Thats what we never revealed, and i said it a bit ago.

Now you know why i was soo for the bad guys killing constantly, we would catch you.


and you KNEW this? that's ridiculous...means all you had to do was pick one type of "kill" to keep investigating until you found the murderer. UGH

as for why we didn't go after you three: lack of night-kill ability (LSG had 1, i only had 2 until the others were killed, dubb was dependent on the weather, sal could kill every night but risked "loosing control", bullet had none)

[Blade6119]

I mean seriously, I would bye the fact that Blade was watching the area of Sal's murder. But to hand it to him? Thats not a good mechanic at all, and I really wish I hadn't heard that. How were we supposed to kill them off then? I assume there was a stipulation where when the side of good lynched an innocent they risked losing a random member too? Or risked losing a day to lynch? I chalked that up to a good play by Blade to be in the right place at the right time, but you handed it to him?

It was cronin, i was watson.

And if you hadnt left us alive after all of our hints it wouldnt have been an issue.

Unlike you, we couldnt visit prostitutes...it was clear by day 2 or 3 who was left. Not to us, you were all unvisited too...but to you, it read a list of good specials. I maintain you made the mistake of not killing the three of us(more cronin and RA) and it cost you the game

[Chief Rum]

Again, that same night ntndeacon was checking out hoops so that was why he was in that area.

Yup, ntn was there for hoops, and Watson-st. cronin were there for ntn. Strangely enough, they left to investigate the other murders (BrianD and Fouts, I think), and then came back to Cavell after Tyrith bought it.

[Blade6119]

and you KNEW this? that's ridiculous...means all you had to do was pick one type of "kill" to keep investigating until you found the murderer. UGH

as for why we didn't go after you three: lack of night-kill ability (LSG didn't have any, i only had 2 (i think) until the others were killed, dubb was dependent on the weather)

No, we were never guranteed a thing..we just investigated every murder scene and looked for clues. The more each murdered, the more likely we found something. We went to every murder, not one type...but we could have gone for a year and not got anything, we got lucky with sal

[dubb93]

It was cronin, i was watson.

And if you hadnt left us alive after all of our hints it wouldnt have been an issue.

Unlike you, we couldnt visit prostitutes...it was clear by day 2 or 3 who was left. Not to us, you were all unvisited too...but to you, it read a list of good specials. I maintain you made the mistake of not killing the three of us(more cronin and RA) and it cost you the game

Blade, I got 1 kill, I repeat 1 kill on night 1. I believe LSG's kill's were gone on night 2, and with Lathum and Sal dead, our two killers, who exactly was going to kill you?

[dubb93]

Well, you investigated exactly one bad guy and I came up bad to you. And only the only guy that killed more than twice you nailed him immediately. I'd say you were REALLY lucky.

[DaddyTorgo]

Blade, I got 1 kill, I repeat 1 kill on night 1. I believe LSG's kill's were gone on night 2, and with Lathum and Sal dead, our two killers, who exactly was going to kill you?

yeah. the weather screwed you too dubb. and i was honestly wary of going after holmes+watson myself even after we had identified you two because I figured you had a counter to my rather "clumsy" kills and then I would be lost for nothing.

[Chief Rum]

Are you freakin serious? That is complete bullshit.

It wasn't automatic. Even the third saldana kill was just a 50% shot. But Watson-Holmes were getting lucky roles all game long.

Also, it was bad luck with the weather. If weather behaves (50% chance of moon being out every night), you get to kill every night. And unfortunately for you, one of the nights you could kill, your target was arrested before you could get to him.

[Blade6119]

Blade, I got 1 kill, I repeat 1 kill on night 1. I believe LSG's kill's were gone on night 2, and with Lathum and Sal dead, our two killers, who exactly was going to kill you?
You all chose to kill path, you chose to kill barkeep...

Heck, by night 3 all the clues were out there(really after night 2 it was clear about cronin and I...RA might have been harder). Night 3 you chose schmidty, and mr. w(i can understand mr. w, but we were a bigger threat then schmidty too.

Thats 3 kills you could have used on us

[st.cronin]

Well, you investigated exactly one bad guy and I came up bad to you. And only the only guy that killed more than twice you nailed him immediately. I'd say you were REALLY lucky.

Yes, we were very lucky.

[dubb93]

Killing path was the nail in the coffin. Hoopsguy or Izulde would have been better choices, and Blade and I would have been VASTLY better choices. Had you come after either myself or Blade, you might have been able to pull out a win.

The game was still within reach at that point.

I was still alive when we found out what happened after I died. In no uncertain terms, they were told they were not killers. Bullet had no experience killing, and DT was clumsy at it. Their best chance was to go out together, but even then the chance of making a kill and cleaning it up good were about nil. So, I think if you were told that you would be careful to pick off the feeble.

[Swaggs]

Did the prostitutes know one another from the beginning? Or was it just real easy for them to identify one another? I think the fact that they were all good to begin with and that they all seemed to know one another gave the good side, perhaps, too much of an advantage. Although I guess it was unknown whether or not they were good, we all seemed to assume that they were.

[Blade6119]

Well, you investigated exactly one bad guy and I came up bad to you. And only the only guy that killed more than twice you nailed him immediately. I'd say you were REALLY lucky.

We got good dice rolls, but things didnt go our way as well. Hoopsguy was a big detractor for us, as he couldnt shut up about cronin and i. By night 2 he had linked us twice, and the first time with the other dead seer.

Lucky yes, but you had luck like that too

[dubb93]

You all chose to kill path, you chose to kill barkeep...

Heck, by night 3 all the clues were out there(really after night 2 it was clear about cronin and I...RA might have been harder). Night 3 you chose schmidty, and mr. w(i can understand mr. w, but we were a bigger threat then schmidty too.

Thats 3 kills you could have used on us

Schmidty's kill was a mistake as I said before I died. We lost control of hyde. Another thing that was stacked against us, we fucking lost control of our only real killer.

[dubb93]

I actually believe the kill of Schmidty was supposed to St. Cronin, but we lost control of him. Prehaps Sal can come in and confirm?

[hoopsguy]

Did the prostitutes know one another from the beginning? Or was it just real easy for them to identify one another? I think the fact that they were all good to begin with and that they all seemed to know one another gave the good side, perhaps, too much of an advantage. Although I guess it was unknown whether or not they were good, we all seemed to assume that they were.

Knew there were four prostitutes, but did not know each other initially.

On Night 0 I saw Barkeep and SnDvls out selling themselves. And Fouts protected Izulde, said he was in another district. So it seemed likely that Izulde was the 4th. Had that info by end of Day 1.

[Blade6119]

Schmidty's kill was a mistake as I said before I died. We lost control of hyde. Another thing that was stacked against us, we fucking lost control of our only real killer.

Ill openly admit we got lucky...you got lucky to get one of our seers on night 2....but you have to realize it wasnt unbalanced, and the reason im fighting you here is because i think your wrongly attacking chiefs game when the fault lie in other areas...be it bad luck or missing clues

[DaddyTorgo]

I was still alive when we found out what happened after I died. In no uncertain terms, they were told they were not killers. Bullet had no experience killing, and DT was clumsy at it. Their best chance was to go out together, but even then the chance of making a kill and cleaning it up good were about nil. So, I think if you were told that you would be careful to pick off the feeble.

exactly. there's no way we had a chance to win, especially with holmes+watson investigating our clumsy kills i was certain. and i had a feeling that we wouldn't be able to get to killing the two of you either, and even if we had via path's post i was still target #1 and bullet would buy it sooner or later.

it was beyond done at that point. hell i'll go ahead and say that ANY chance we had was gone when Sal died, and DEFINATELY when dubb died.

[Blade6119]

Hoopsguy, now do you understand why i was annoyed by you not dropping your demands about seeing cronin and i with schmidty when both Mr W and i were telling you to shut up? I was sure they would come kill us that night

[hoopsguy]

One of these times I want a bad guy to actually put up their own argument rather than waiting for me to find a reason to back them :)

Blade/Cronin - I'm not sure I would have swallowed the "we collectively forgot to process an action" story so I guess I'm very glad the game ended tonight when it did.

[Chief Rum]

I mean seriously, I would bye the fact that Blade was watching the area of Sal's murder. But to hand it to him? Thats not a good mechanic at all, and I really wish I hadn't heard that. How were we supposed to kill them off then? I assume there was a stipulation where when the side of good lynched an innocent they risked losing a random member too? Or risked losing a day to lynch? I chalked that up to a good play by Blade to be in the right place at the right time, but you handed it to him?

Well, he is Sherlock Holmes. Like I said, it wasn't automatic. You guys had some bad rolls. Just like losing Jack The Ripper really hurt you guys, losing Sherlock Holmes would have really hurt the side of good. Unfortunately for you, Holmes stayed alive and Jack bought it early.

Not going to say whether it was balanced properly or not. It was my first GMing game, so I am certain I made a mistake or two here and there.

But that's what was going on there. Sorry if you felt it was unbalanced. It wasn't my intent.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well, he is Sherlock Holmes. Like I said, it wasn't automatic. You guys had some bad rolls. Just like losing Jack The Ripper really hurt you guys, losing Sherlock Holmes would have really hurt the side of good. Unfortunately for you, Holmes stayed alive and Jack bought it early.

Not going to say whether it was balanced properly or not. It was my first GMing game, so I am certain I made a mistake or two here and there.

But that's what was going on there. Sorry if you felt it was unbalanced. It wasn't my intent.

it's okay chief. I just want to say, none of us are ATTACKING you or blaming you for that. It's more...constructive criticism.

[Swaggs]

Actually, if I hadn't of screwed up and not given CR instructions on what to do with my bribed orphan, we would have gotten LSG a couple of days earlier, as well.

[Chief Rum]

Blade, I got 1 kill, I repeat 1 kill on night 1. I believe LSG's kill's were gone on night 2, and with Lathum and Sal dead, our two killers, who exactly was going to kill you?

Actually, when you died, anyone without previous kill pwoers gained those powers "out of necessity." In other words, Fagin and Moriarty were normally manipulators, and bullet was too new, so they wouldn't kill automatically. But if the three "killers" all bought it, they would gain normal killing powers (and they did--bullet killed path).

[st.cronin]

I agree the way the game went was tough for the badguys. But, I still think they will agree that it was a fun game, and that Chief did a good job.

[DaddyTorgo]

I actually believe the kill of Schmidty was supposed to St. Cronin, but we lost control of him. Prehaps Sal can come in and confirm?


i think you're right about this, from what i remember. and that would have taken out blade, and still left us with our "real" killer.

[hoopsguy]

Hoopsguy, now do you understand why i was annoyed by you not dropping your demands about seeing cronin and i with schmidty when both Mr W and i were telling you to shut up? I was sure they would come kill us that night

Yeah, I get it. But I also thought it was about 50/50 on you having a Holmes/Watson role versus Fagin/Urchin and Schmidty wasn't around to say anything about the situation.

I'm always going to have a hard time sitting on the sideline and trusting someone in these games - I'm naturally paranoid when I play. I ask questions with the intent of putting information together and "trust me" is not the easiest advice to listen to, especially after I felt like you went after a known good in Barkeep earlier in the game and had admitted to lying about your info repeatedly.

Anyways, all is well that ends well with this game.

[Blade6119]

It wasnt unbalanced, we just got lucky and the bad guys didnt kill the special roles. Sucks for them, but it wasnt the game. Bad guys, unlucky or not, missed the good roles and lost becuase of it.