Werewolf XXXVIII: Jack The Ripper (GAME OVER! GOOD WINS ON DAY SEVEN)

[Barkeep49]

He made no mention of time in the PM, or about Barkeep actions or intentions. Only that he was there.

He did say the WW entered the district, implying somebody left another district to go to commercial and kill tyrith. He never said barkeep came or left, or that he was there the whole time. Only that barkeep was the only other person in commercial.
Wouldn't this clear me then? If the WW entered the district and I was there the whole time how could I have been the bad guy?

[Blade6119]

Its taking me alot of time to respond to stuff, so sorry if I'm really delayed. I start writing a post, then get sidetracked with work stuff for 10-30 min then come back to finish it. Was going to say your story makes alot of sense to me.. to follow up on what I said earlier.. path hinted at a day ability, and I said in response that I tried mine.. then later find out it failed. Just to go a little further without giving too much away, the day ability I have also involves using urchins.. however if they are preoccupied by someone who gives them alot of money (more than I give), then they can't carry through with my task. It sounds like you were the one that trumped my day time order and thus didn't allow mine to go through.

I already said im sorry lol...your action wont be blocked by me again until day 6. So have fun until then. But yes, im glad you can add credibility to my claims, even if not the facts i present.

[Blade6119]

Wouldn't this clear me then? If the WW entered the district and I was there the whole time how could I have been the bad guy?

It didnt say you were there the whole time, just that you were there. It didnt say if you came and went or stayed the night...it only said that you were the only other player in commerical last night, which can mean you came in for the murder, came in for other reasons, or was there all along.

[Alan T]

Sorry, i had to place an offer of 10 shillings for my action to be successful. Tomorrow you may feel free to offer again, as i wont be able to

No complaints as your information seemed to turn up something better than I could ever have done. I guess my main question is probably something I didn't fully grasp since I just skimmed through fast as I got chances here..

You are saying your urchin knew 100% that the only people in commercial district was Tyrith and Barkeep (and the urchin)? THe urchin didn't necessarily see the kill, but saw only those two in the district?

[Blade6119]

Blade -- I think you have bad info. I can tell you, with 100% certainty, that there was someone else in commercial district last night.

I am not a werewolf or any other kind of bad man.

My PM said there was only one other player in the area, you. So either area implies just the death scene and not the whole district(if so, makes you look worse) or your lying.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, who do you think was in the district yesterday along with you?

[Blade6119]

No complaints as your information seemed to turn up something better than I could ever have done. I guess my main question is probably something I didn't fully grasp since I just skimmed through fast as I got chances here..

You are saying your urchin knew 100% that the only people in commercial district was Tyrith and Barkeep (and the urchin)? THe urchin didn't necessarily see the kill, but saw only those two in the district?
He did not see the kill, but saw the WW break into tyriths home...he was too afriad to go in and watch the WW feed, but he heared it and it was gruesome. He then told me(all in a note) that the only other player he saw was barkeep. He made no mention of seeing the wolf leave, so i assumed barkeep was the WW and turned back into his normal self before leaving.

[SnDvls]

Barkeep, who do you think was in the district yesterday along with you?


yesterday being night 1 correct?

[Blade6119]

To clarify, it said there was only one other person in the area, and that was my BK himself. It was faily clear on that last point.

[SnDvls]

He did not see the kill, but saw the WW break into tyriths home...he was too afriad to go in and watch the WW feed, but he heared it and it was gruesome. He then told me(all in a note) that the only other player he saw was barkeep. He made no mention of seeing the wolf leave, so i assumed barkeep was the WW and turned back into his normal self before leaving.


bolded part mine

if he was the only other person in the area then wouldn't that clear BK as it was the urchin, BK and the WW as the "other" person.

[Blade6119]

bolded part mine

if he was the only other person in the area then wouldn't that clear BK as it was the urchin, BK and the WW as the "other" person.

I take other to mean besides tyrith since he never named the WW. Besides, the WW would revert back to normal form after making the kill as to not be seen.

He named two player, tyrith and barkeep...so other to me means barkeep was the only player other then the now mauled to death tyrith in Commercial.

[Blade6119]

VOTE BARKEEp

[ntndeacon]

He did not see the kill, but saw the WW break into tyriths home...he was too afriad to go in and watch the WW feed, but he heared it and it was gruesome. He then told me(all in a note) that the only other player he saw was barkeep. He made no mention of seeing the wolf leave, so i assumed barkeep was the WW and turned back into his normal self before leaving.

That seems plausible, Blade. However if the urchin was scared by the werewolf (Legitamitely :) ), it seems possible that he was afraid to stay. and reported who was there at the time of the attack.. If this is the case, it does the opposite of implicating Barkeep....it actually exonerates him.

[Blade6119]

damnit

VOTE BARKEEP

[hoopsguy]

Yes, yesterday being Night 1.

Blade, I'm interested in hearing what kind of defense Barkeep can mount and if others are willing to vouch for him. This is not to dispute your version of events - just trying to get as complete a version of last night as possible.

I think bad guys are going to have to be pretty cautious with their lies this game, especially early on, with the amount of night information being collected.

[SnDvls]

I take other to mean besides tyrith since he never named the WW. Besides, the WW would revert back to normal form after making the kill as to not be seen.

He named two player, tyrith and barkeep...so other to me means barkeep was the only player other then the now mauled to death tyrith in Commercial.

could the urchin also be the WW? I need to recheck the rules on this

[Blade6119]

could the urchin also be the WW? I need to recheck the rules on this

The urchin i paid was not a player in this game i didnt believe. Its possible he is, but i dont think so. Maybe alan can share his thoughts, but my initial PM made it sound like it was just a way for the ability to work

[Blade6119]

Yes, yesterday being Night 1.

Blade, I'm interested in hearing what kind of defense Barkeep can mount and if others are willing to vouch for him. This is not to dispute your version of events - just trying to get as complete a version of last night as possible.

I think bad guys are going to have to be pretty cautious with their lies this game, especially early on, with the amount of night information being collected.

I wasnt sure about barkeep being bad from my PM, but then he made a comment about the WW killing tyrith and now is claiming there was another person in commercial, when my PM says the only person in the area was barkeep.

If he can mount a plausible defense, ok...im not 100% sure on him, but its the best ive got so far

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, who do you think was in the district yesterday along with you?
My john. I am a prostitute and learned last night that my john is an innocent. I believe my john on the first night learned the same, though I did not learn that from him.

I'm unsure if I will be in again the rest of the day in a few minutes. I'm guessing I will find myself dead by the end of the day.

[Blade6119]

My john. I am a prostitute and learned last night that my john is an innocent. I believe my john on the first night learned the same, though I did not learn that from him.

I'm unsure if I will be in again the rest of the day in a few minutes. I'm guessing I will find myself dead by the end of the day.

So you didnt see or hear anything outside of your john last night? Thats all you did?

[Alan T]

The urchin i paid was not a player in this game i didnt believe. Its possible he is, but i dont think so. Maybe alan can share his thoughts, but my initial PM made it sound like it was just a way for the ability to work

My initial take was the urchins were out of game resources to facilitate a story. However Jonathan ended up an urchin, and Schmidty hinted to being an urchin (at least seemed like that to me) last night.

Right now I find Blade's story credible as best he understands it. I guess the question in my mind is how credible the urchins themselves are. I dont feel that Blade is lying as he would have to make alot of guesses and be hitting them pretty directly here.

I think the best thing at this point is Barkeep needs to say why he was there, and name who else was there that he knew 100% was there, and if that person can or can not vouch either for barkeep or for also being in the district at least.

[Alan T]

My john. I am a prostitute and learned last night that my john is an innocent. I believe my john on the first night learned the same, though I did not learn that from him.

I'm unsure if I will be in again the rest of the day in a few minutes. I'm guessing I will find myself dead by the end of the day.

Well if you have had 2 different people that are good guys visit you this game (one night 0, one last night), then thats 2 people who should be able to vouch for you, including one vouching for your wherabouts last night. So your story is just fine with me as long as you get others who will vouch for you.

If no one vouches for you, then it seems like a logical lynch vote today.

[hoopsguy]

I strongly believe that Barkeep is telling the truth about being a prostitute - but if he "scored" last night and that prevents other actions (night kill) for both parties that would imply there were three people in the district.

I'm also not 100% certain that someone cannot be both prostitute and werewolf. I'll send that question to Chief Rum in an e-mail.

This is why I was curious about Barkeep's defense. If someone was his "john" I don't really see a downside for them coming out at this point.

Barkeep, did you learn anything about Tyrith's death while you were in that district last night?

[Barkeep49]

I'm going to vote for the only other person with votes

Vote Daddy Torrango

Gotta save myself.

[Blade6119]

Why dont you tell us who you were with both nights, so they can either clear you or damn you. I dont see much of a downside in clearing you, and possibly 2 others

[Barkeep49]

I hid in mortal fear over the commotion. I hope my john is around today to verify me then.

[Barkeep49]

Why dont you tell us who you were with both nights, so they can either clear you or damn you. I dont see much of a downside in clearing you, and possibly 2 others
Seems to me there's more credibility if I don't say.

[ntndeacon]

Well if you have had 2 different people that are good guys visit you this game (one night 0, one last night), then thats 2 people who should be able to vouch for you, including one vouching for your wherabouts last night. So your story is just fine with me as long as you get others who will vouch for you.

If no one vouches for you, then it seems like a logical lynch vote today.

actually Barkeep did not know there were 2 good guys as his johns. remember he did not say his first night's customer was innocent. He couldn't tell

[Blade6119]

Seems to me there's more credibility if I don't say.

Id actually like you to...this way, two bad guys can say oh, i was with barkeep last night..if you name two names, its cut and dry. If you dont, any two players in the game can step up. Maybe im wrong, but i doubt with all the kills their is a bad guy side of 3 or more people. So you naming two would be a solid option to me

[Blade6119]

Ive given yall all the information i have..i will try to get better results on night 6 when i get to have him follow one person. Have a good morning yall, im head off to classes

[Alan T]

I agree with Blade. I went back and looked through all of Barkeep's posts to try to get a feel for a validity of his statement. I found some negatives and positives.

One weird thing for me was that Blade was after barkeep yesterday too before there was this urchin proof, and I hate it when "evidence" lines up convienantly. Sometimes its not as convienant as it seems. I however do not have any reason to doubt Blade's story.. someone did pay the Urchin a whole lot of money last night, 10 shillings would be a believable amount to me. What Blade says the urchin did also is believable to me. So I am not putting much weight to yesterday's coeincidences.

Now on to what Barkeep has talked about.. He has asked many many times this game why would people go to visit the prostitutes. This to me either means he is indeed a prostitute and doesn't understand from his perspective why others would spend money on him. He also wouldn't know what type of person is visiting him (are they good people, are they bad people, can both sides visit?) Or the other possibility in my mind is that he has been setting up a prosititute defense the entire time in case he got snagged and wanted to understand the role as well as possible.

I guess the big thing for me is Barkeep preached on day 1 that more information is better for the village. Its time to live up to your words Barkeep. I think you should tell us what you know, who visitied you, where did they visit you. You said someone visited you night 0 and last night. that is two independant factors that can be vefiried and possibly leave an additional trail of secondary verification of people who witnessed those in this line of thinking.

I guess I don't have a feel one way or another if one can be a prostitute + a bad guy. I'm assuming JtR isnt a prostitute, but I don't know about the other roles.

Would it help us any to also put together a list of people who wern't in Tyrith's area last night who we know couldn't have killed him? Mr.W had a good list to start with. I'm sure others might be able to have confirmation of not being in the area.

[bulletsponge]

My PM said there was only one other player in the area, you. So either area implies just the death scene and not the whole district(if so, makes you look worse) or your lying.


i find it hard to believe there were only 2 people in a district last night.
there are what 20+ peeps and 4 or 5 districts (i cant remeber). i doubt your urchin is 100% accurate.

[path12]

I will vouch for Barkeep but do not want to give any details other than that.

[Alan T]

I will vouch for Barkeep but do not want to give any details other than that.

Without giving more information on your actions, can you at least verify which part you are vouching to? That you also were in Commercial Rd. District last night and the urchin wasn't correct, or that barkeep is a prostitute and you found that out night 0 (not last night). Its important to know which part.

[Alan T]

My last post for a while (maybe 2-3 hours). I find it very disapointing that Barkeep chose to leave without presenting a viable defense.

I've tried to start a map of last night to have an idea of who was where, so we can at least rule out who might not have been who's murderers.

We have the following vouches so far:
Bulletsponge + 2 others he says, but does not state what area
Mr.W states he saw Blade, ntn, St.cronin - whitechapel Rd
Hoops + 4 who he saw leaving cavell but we do not know if they can vouch for him. (as it could be night 0 info he is using based on people's living locations)
Alan - Whitechapel Rd.
Barkeep + 1 other he says who visited him last night. - Commercial Rd.

So this makes my map so far like this:

Bishopsgate:


Whitechapel Rd: (Fouts & BrianD dead)
15. MrWednesday (unverified)
18. AlanT (unverified)
4. Blade6119
13. st. cronin
23. ntndeacon


Commercial Rd: (Tyrith dead)
1. Barkeep49

Cavell:
19. hoopsguy (unverified)


Unknown area:
5. bulletsponge (unverified)


No info:
2. DaddyTorgo
3. Schmidty
7. saldana
8. Lathum
12. path12
14. LoneStarGirl
16. SnDvls
17. dubb93
20. Dodgerchick
21. Raiders Army
22. Swaggs
24. Izulde

[path12]

Without giving more information on your actions, can you at least verify which part you are vouching to? That you also were in Commercial Rd. District last night and the urchin wasn't correct, or that barkeep is a prostitute and you found that out night 0 (not last night). Its important to know which part.

Barkeep is a prostitute.

[Izulde]

I know who at least one of the prostitutes are and Barkeep isn't it. Also, if we lynch Barkeep, then we have a strong indication as to if Barkeep is bad or good. Blade's evidence suggests there's a possibility that Barkeep's bad, so I'm willing to go that route to clear path or damn path, depending on the Barkeep lynch result.

VOTE BARKEEP

[Mr. Wednesday]

I live in Cavell St., so hoops may have seen me.

[Lorena]

So people go to the opium den in the hopes of gaining information. Why do people go to prostitutes? Are there any other vices lurking around? Gambling perhaps?

holy crap 3 dead!



so you can find out who, a prostitute is. for a circle of trust to form

You do not visit an opium den to find prostitutes.

[hoopsguy]

The information I'm looking for is someone to vouch that they were with BK last night. That would give more credence to him not being able to commit a murder as a werewolf - I think it is less likely (not impossible) that he could complete multiple actions.

Of course, Chief coming in to say that it is not possible to be both a prostitute and werewolf would clear this up as well.

Alan, if we are able to establish a good reason to reveal where people live I'm happy to reveal the information I know about people leaving Cavell last night.

For what it is worth, Tyrith was from Commercial. So he was killed in his home area - don't know if that helps in terms of learning the order actions are processed as he potentially could have stayed in his district last night.

[bulletsponge]

ok i guess its time to save Barkeep. i was the John who visited Barkeep last night for some "matress rodeo". i learned he is good. i also learned who his john from the previous night was and that he too is good

[Lorena]

I was a little disappointed with my night action; I was hoping on a bigger circle of trust but the person I visited in Bishopsgate has already been cleared. Bummer.

I was also robbed... bastages. One thing I found out was that Mr. W was passing through Bishopsgate last night.

[bulletsponge]

dola

i met Barkeep in the commercial district

[bulletsponge]

so the fact that i too was in comercial dist means Blades urchin didnt see everything or that Blade is full of it. im pretty sure you never get 100% of the info, but i also dont trust blade

[Lorena]

I do trust Blade because some of the stuff he said corresponds with what I know to be true. Right now, bullet defending Barkeep seems really odd... 2 people whom I don't trust fully right now.

[saldana]

for the record, I didnt leave my house last night...i was trying to save my shillings to bribe an urchin with last night....the night before, i was in the bishopgate area looking for hookers, but didnt find any.

if bullet is to be believed (no reason not too), Blade's info is incomplete at best, and a fabrication at worse, and since both path and bullet are vouching for Barkeep's being a lady of the night, i am going to hold off on voting for anyone right now

[Lorena]

Oh yeah and dang Blade, you spend 10 schilling to hire an urchin? I was thinking of offering a lot less than that.

[saldana]

dola, i stayed home yesterday because my attempt from day 1 to get an urchin was turned down, i assume by blade's use of the action.

[SnDvls]

I know who at least one of the prostitutes are and Barkeep isn't it. Also, if we lynch Barkeep, then we have a strong indication as to if Barkeep is bad or good. Blade's evidence suggests there's a possibility that Barkeep's bad, so I'm willing to go that route to clear path or damn path, depending on the Barkeep lynch result.

VOTE BARKEEP


barking up the wrong tree here Izulde ;)

[saldana]

Oh yeah and dang Blade, you spend 10 schilling to hire an urchin? I was thinking of offering a lot less than that.


i did offer less...damn little capitalist bastards....

[path12]

I know who at least one of the prostitutes are and Barkeep isn't it. Also, if we lynch Barkeep, then we have a strong indication as to if Barkeep is bad or good. Blade's evidence suggests there's a possibility that Barkeep's bad, so I'm willing to go that route to clear path or damn path, depending on the Barkeep lynch result.


I don't get your reasoning. We don't want the prostitutes to die and there are obviously multiple of them around. For you to place that vote after I came out and vouched for him raises you on my suspicion list.

It's not a matter of clearing or damning me, it's a matter of not lynching someone who is good when the bad guys obviously have the potential to thin our numbers rather quickly. I strongly suspect we have very little margin this game to waste on lynching good people to learn info. We have plenty of ways to gather info in this game. It's a matter of finding a way to coordinate our seperate pieces of info without putting too many targets out there to get killed at night.

[SnDvls]

there are 5 players that I have little to no info on in my notes anyone have are read on the following?

DaddyTorgo
Schmidty
Lathum
LoneStarGirl
Raiders Army

[path12]

there are 5 players that I have little to no info on in my notes anyone have are read on the following?

DaddyTorgo
Schmidty
Lathum
LoneStarGirl
Raiders Army

No read on Torgo or RA. Schmidty is playing his regular confounding game, LSG said she'd be a lot more talkative today but I haven't noticed anything from her. Lathum said a couple of things that I noticed but my notes are at home so I forget what they were offhand. I don't recall them being anything major though.

[saldana]

I don't get your reasoning. We don't want the prostitutes to die and there are obviously multiple of them around. For you to place that vote after I came out and vouched for him raises you on my suspicion list.

It's not a matter of clearing or damning me, it's a matter of not lynching someone who is good when the bad guys obviously have the potential to thin our numbers rather quickly. I strongly suspect we have very little margin this game to waste on lynching good people to learn info. We have plenty of ways to gather info in this game. It's a matter of finding a way to coordinate our seperate pieces of info without putting too many targets out there to get killed at night.

i would be very suprised if we have as many kills tonight as we had last night...that type of mechanic could make a very short game. i think it is more likely that some of the kills were one time or at least every third night type actions, and that all the baddies used them last night to make sure they got them in before they had a chance to get lynched. blade brought this up earlier (expecting alot of deaths), but i didnt see anyone elaborate on why.

[Alan T]

there are 5 players that I have little to no info on in my notes anyone have are read on the following?

DaddyTorgo
Schmidty
Lathum
LoneStarGirl
Raiders Army

Meeting time for me, before I go for a while, to respond to this..

My vote is on DaddyTorgo right now. I don't know what role or side he is on, but I have a good guess what role he isn't. Plus he hasn't been verified by anyone, trusted by anyone and we don't know his whereabouts last night.

Schmidty hinted he was an urchin, but other than that has been rather his normal play (good or bad)

Lathum has kinda been weird this game and Im not sure what to make of it. Might just be busy RL.. dunno.

LSG also hasn't been too involved evidentally due to RL stuff.

I feel ok about RaidersArmy due to stuff he said on day 1. He was one of the early people who I think backed Fouts and I find it likely he is a common londoner.

[Alan T]

oh one other question I had...

can someone tell me how you go from cavell st (to the east), to Whitechapel rd (center of town) by going through bishopgate district (to the west)?

[saldana]

My last post for a while (maybe 2-3 hours). I find it very disapointing that Barkeep chose to leave without presenting a viable defense.

I've tried to start a map of last night to have an idea of who was where, so we can at least rule out who might not have been who's murderers.

We have the following vouches so far:
Bulletsponge + 2 others he says, but does not state what area
Mr.W states he saw Blade, ntn, St.cronin - whitechapel Rd
Hoops + 4 who he saw leaving cavell but we do not know if they can vouch for him. (as it could be night 0 info he is using based on people's living locations)
Alan - Whitechapel Rd.
Barkeep + 1 other he says who visited him last night. - Commercial Rd.

So this makes my map so far like this:

Bishopsgate:


Whitechapel Rd: (Fouts & BrianD dead)
15. MrWednesday (unverified)
18. AlanT (unverified)
4. Blade6119
13. st. cronin
23. ntndeacon


Commercial Rd: (Tyrith dead)
1. Barkeep49

Cavell:
19. hoopsguy (unverified)


Unknown area:
5. bulletsponge (unverified)


No info:
2. DaddyTorgo
3. Schmidty
7. saldana
8. Lathum
12. path12
14. LoneStarGirl
16. SnDvls
17. dubb93
20. Dodgerchick
21. Raiders Army
22. Swaggs
24. Izulde


Although he does list himself as unverified,. the fact that Alan is claming to have been in whitechapel rd last night is bothering me....there were 4 other people there that have been verified, but not a single one of them has said they saw alan.

i was suspicious of him yesterday, and this type of listing is something he has done in the past when he is a bad guy....he makes a list with a ton of people listed as suspects because they are unvouched for, but doesnt include himself.

[SnDvls]

Mr. W you seemed to have gotten around a lot last night.

wondering what you were doing? you stated you live in Cavell (hoops is hinting at seeing you there) and we know you were in Whitechapel (per post #484)

any of you three on right now (alan, DC, Sal) see him last night?

[saldana]

lunch break is over for me, see you all tonight.

[Mr. Wednesday]

oh one other question I had...

can someone tell me how you go from cavell st (to the east), to Whitechapel rd (center of town) by going through bishopgate district (to the west)?
I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I would recommend against lynching Barkeep, at this point. We've got several suggestions why we shouldn't, plus, if he is in fact a prostitute, we can expect Jack to take care of him sooner rather than later.

[path12]

i would be very suprised if we have as many kills tonight as we had last night...that type of mechanic could make a very short game. i think it is more likely that some of the kills were one time or at least every third night type actions, and that all the baddies used them last night to make sure they got them in before they had a chance to get lynched. blade brought this up earlier (expecting alot of deaths), but i didnt see anyone elaborate on why.

I didn't mean to suggest that they could kill three every night, but it sure looks like there is at least a chance of multiple kills in the evenings. We'll know more tonight I guess.

I do think that the key will be processing all the pieces of information that we have without revealing our good roles. I think it might have been pretty smart for the bad guys to target regular Londoners last night -- they're out and about and the more they see the bigger the chance of someone getting caught.

[Lorena]

I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.

Umm... NO!!! The lady of the night I visited told me you passed through Bishopsgate, sorry man, this doesn't jive with me.

[hoopsguy]

I live in Cavell St., so hoops may have seen me.

Actually, I did not see you among the four people I did witness. This is not to dispute you living there, just that you were not one of the people I saw there last night.

[SnDvls]

too many fingers are starting to point now

[SnDvls]

vote Mr. Wednesday

his story isn't jiving with me right now

[hoopsguy]

I got a response to my question to Chief Rum on whether someone could be both prostitute and werewolf. Not a direct answer, but here is the part I think was very intersting:

"at the beginning prostitutes are good and count towards good"

This implies that there might be a conversion mechanism out there, but I would be very surprised if it could have been activated on Night 0 or Day 1 to have Barkeep as a killer werewolf on Night 1. So I'm not going down the Barkeep path today.

[dubb93]

Just read and got caught up. I think it's a bad idea to vote Barkeep today. Right, now, it is down to DT, RA and Wednesday for me. I think I'm gonna put some pressure on Torgo and see if we can't get something out of him. This vote is subject to change.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[DaddyTorgo]

wow. so i get a vote from alan because there's a ton of information being thrown out and I'm having trouble processing it with the killer headache I had the other day? that's pretty harsh.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.
In case it's not clear, I'm not denying being in Bishopsgate, it's just that my reason for being there wasn't because it was on the way to Whitechapel Rd.

[DaddyTorgo]

thanks dubb. i was sleeping till 1 (lazy retail worker me). you all want info from me?

[LoneStarGirl]

I don't get an off period till 12:45

No read on Torgo or RA. Schmidty is playing his regular confounding game, LSG said she'd be a lot more talkative today but I haven't noticed anything from her. Lathum said a couple of things that I noticed but my notes are at home so I forget what they were offhand. I don't recall them being anything major though.

[DaddyTorgo]

as for what I did last night, I was in Whitechapel Road, where I am staying at the Inn during the events of this terrible time in London. I thought about visiting a prostitute or going to the opium den but figured that there'd be a lot of evil about on night 1 and I didn't want to have my shillings robbed away or possibly worse (turns out it was a good night NOT to go out in Whitechapel). For every night I stay in I gain 4 shillings too, so there was a positive to my not going out, it's $$ I can use later.

[hoopsguy]

Does anyone else accumulate money in the manner DT is suggesting?

[LoneStarGirl]

Okay guys, again, sorry for having so much real life junk going on, its not like me, i know. Second, after we had a couple of people vouch for Barkeep, Izulde voted for him. That is way suspicious. I stayed at home last night because I thought there would be too much going on and i didn't want to get killed early. I get 3 shillings a night so i thought what the hell. Other than that, nothing exciting happened

[LoneStarGirl]

Well i guess i answered your question hoops.

[LoneStarGirl]

The fact that Daddy gets money the same way i do makes me think he is good, but i dont know for certain. So i wont vote for him today. Barkeep was cleared so ill stick off of him. so the only other choice right now seems like

vote mr wednesday

[DaddyTorgo]

Does anyone else accumulate money in the manner DT is suggesting?

it's what happens when you're a trader passing through town. selling your wares. and no i'm not talking about being horizontal refreshment, although I may check that out tonight...

[path12]

Is it just me, or does there appear to be way too many people who can visit prostitutes/opium dens/earn money/hire urchins to all be plain villagers?

[hoopsguy]

Also, here is the sum total of my question to Chief Rum and the full answer - I verified with him that it is acceptable to do this and figure that since it is allowed it is the best way to allow everyone access to the same info.

Question (Hoops): Can someone be both a prostitute and a bad guy role (werewolf in this
case)?

If both are "roles" I would think this is unlikely. But if "prostitute"
is an occupation that might allow for someone to hold both the role and
occupation.

Looking for any clarification that you think is fair to give.


Answer (Rum): Sorry, but I don't think I can respond to that within the rules of the game. You will have to go with what information you can surmise from start up information in Post #3, and from any information you
uncover through the course of the game.

I will say that at the beginning, prostitutes are good and count toward
good. I can't say whether I have designed the game to change this or not
as it progresses.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[Schmidty]

Can someone explain to me what the point of money is in the game? I'm reading through things, but I'm not understanding.

[Alan T]

It was these two quotes that had me thinking down a tangent earlier..

I was a little disappointed with my night action; I was hoping on a bigger circle of trust but the person I visited in Bishopsgate has already been cleared. Bummer.

I was also robbed... bastages. One thing I found out was that Mr. W was passing through Bishopsgate last night.


I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.

Which led me to ask this:

oh one other question I had...

can someone tell me how you go from cavell st (to the east), to Whitechapel rd (center of town) by going through bishopgate district (to the west)?


It seems Sndvls had the same line of thinking as he later asked this:

Mr. W you seemed to have gotten around a lot last night.

wondering what you were doing? you stated you live in Cavell (hoops is hinting at seeing you there) and we know you were in Whitechapel (per post #484)

any of you three on right now (alan, DC, Sal) see him last night?


I phrased mine a little different just because I wasn't sure if moving between alot of areas on purpose or accidental was a sign of someone being bad or being good. It either implies multiple night actions or something else to me... I don't necessarily find that correlation to mean he is bad.. and alot of my thoughts might be leaning to him being good. It would be helpful if some of the people who he stated came to him in whitegate when he called them backed his story. I am just assuming since Blade didn't deny it while he was here that its true though. I doubt I'll vote for Mr.W on this alone.

Although he does list himself as unverified,. the fact that Alan is claming to have been in whitechapel rd last night is bothering me....there were 4 other people there that have been verified, but not a single one of them has said they saw alan.

i was suspicious of him yesterday, and this type of listing is something he has done in the past when he is a bad guy....he makes a list with a ton of people listed as suspects because they are unvouched for, but doesnt include himself.

This is pretty interesting to me for a few reasons. Saldana (like ntndeacon) has been one that appears to be clinging to a particular role yet not really offering any fresh or new points of interest about the role. Many people have dropped hints or made references to things in regards to the normal generic villager role this game that I have noticed, but Saldana hasn't even though he is piggybacking on the role from my understanding last night of his comments to Dubbs.

I would think if you are truly the role I assume you are claiming based on last night comments, you wouldn't be finding me too suspicious after the hints I dropped yesterday and today (some of which have later been supported by others). Dunno if there is alot to it, but just something interesting that I have been finding.

I got a response to my question to Chief Rum on whether someone could be both prostitute and werewolf. Not a direct answer, but here is the part I think was very intersting:

"at the beginning prostitutes are good and count towards good"

This implies that there might be a conversion mechanism out there, but I would be very surprised if it could have been activated on Night 0 or Day 1 to have Barkeep as a killer werewolf on Night 1. So I'm not going down the Barkeep path today.

My comment in regards to this... If we are to assume Barkeep started out as a prostitute (as vouched for by Path and Bullet), then we assume he started good. So two options are: Either converted night 1 somehow without path knowing about it (unless path was involved), or he is still good.

as for what I did last night, I was in Whitechapel Road, where I am staying at the Inn during the events of this terrible time in London. I thought about visiting a prostitute or going to the opium den but figured that there'd be a lot of evil about on night 1 and I didn't want to have my shillings robbed away or possibly worse (turns out it was a good night NOT to go out in Whitechapel). For every night I stay in I gain 4 shillings too, so there was a positive to my not going out, it's $$ I can use later.

Does anyone else accumulate money in the manner DT is suggesting?

Okay guys, again, sorry for having so much real life junk going on, its not like me, i know. Second, after we had a couple of people vouch for Barkeep, Izulde voted for him. That is way suspicious. I stayed at home last night because I thought there would be too much going on and i didn't want to get killed early. I get 3 shillings a night so i thought what the hell. Other than that, nothing exciting happened

Well i guess i answered your question hoops.

The fact that Daddy gets money the same way i do makes me think he is good, but i dont know for certain. So i wont vote for him today. Barkeep was cleared so ill stick off of him. so the only other choice right now seems like

vote mr wednesday

it's what happens when you're a trader passing through town. selling your wares. and no i'm not talking about being horizontal refreshment, although I may check that out tonight...


The last few quotes were in regards to DaddyTorgo's comments. He seemed to be very confused about the stuff we talked about yesterday and said so in the thread, yet today is claiming to have those abilities (visit prostitutes, opium den, etc). He stated he gains money if he stays in (4 shillings a night), and LSG said that she can vouch for that.. but I think you might look closer LSG... mine too is only 3 shillings a night like you.. but the thing is I don't have to stay in to gain those. If you double check yours I am guessing you get your 3 shillings a day regardless if you stay in or not.. So while it seems that DT's is like yours.. I think his might be a bit more different than first glance shows.

[Alan T]

Can someone explain to me what the point of money is in the game? I'm reading through things, but I'm not understanding.

Last night you said something like "urchins rule" or something like that. My assumption was you were hinting to your role. If this is the case, do you have methods of gaining money or spending money? Or was this not a hint and just a random statement that you find young boys attractive? :)

[Lorena]

Can someone explain to me what the point of money is in the game? I'm reading through things, but I'm not understanding.

Money allows us to either visit a prostitute or the opium den.

[Lorena]

Is it just me, or does there appear to be way too many people who can visit prostitutes/opium dens/earn money/hire urchins to all be plain villagers?

My guess is that this would be considered an "ordinary villager role".

[DaddyTorgo]

Okay Alan...for the last time let me explain my timeline:

Night Zero: MASSIVE headache. I won't go so far as to call it a migrane, but it was constant throbbing pain all along the back of my head, from one side to the other. It literally hurt to stand up. So I saw my role-PM from CR and said "okay" but then was unable to be in-thread and following along for the first bunch of stuff. So I had a ton to catch up on, which is where things started to get jumbled.

I do understand the mechanics of the opium den and the prostitutes in the game. That's not what confuses me. What confuses me is reading through the whole thread at breakneck speed trying to catch up and either missing the little "hints" that people drop down, or coming too late to them and being unable to give a little *wink-wink* without looking suspicious.

It's not because I'm evil. It's because I had a huge headache and then had to catch up on a bunch of stuff really quickly. Not to mention the fact that I just switched locations at work and am now under the Adolf Hitler of Starbucks managers for the next several months.

As for my money-earning ability, it's the fact that I have to stay in at night to earn it that makes it worth 4 shillings I would assume. And yes, I'm not your *typical* trader who you might expect to make day-calls. It's because what I'm dealing in isn't cloth or food, but lovely flowers.

[Izulde]

Hmmm. I'll unvote for now and look at the info again later.

UNVOTE BARKEEP

[hoopsguy]

DC, I think the point is that there are a lot of people who are aligning themselves in the "ordinary villager role" when it seems that there are quite a few special roles out there.

- 3+ bad guys, based on three kills
- I know of three prostitutes and there is at least one more out there
- We have already seen three ordinary villagers killed during Night 1

Just seems likely that some of the "bad guys" are hiding in plain site by acting like ordinary villagers.

[Lorena]

The last few quotes were in regards to DaddyTorgo's comments. He seemed to be very confused about the stuff we talked about yesterday and said so in the thread, yet today is claiming to have those abilities (visit prostitutes, opium den, etc). He stated he gains money if he stays in (4 shillings a night), and LSG said that she can vouch for that.. but I think you might look closer LSG... mine too is only 3 shillings a night like you.. but the thing is I don't have to stay in to gain those. If you double check yours I am guessing you get your 3 shillings a day regardless if you stay in or not.. So while it seems that DT's is like yours.. I think his might be a bit more different than first glance shows.

After expenses and all, I end up with 3 shillings a day, but I don't remember earning money if I stay home, that would be nice as 3 shillings doesn't do much... especially with all the hoodlums around town.

[Alan T]

My guess is that this would be considered an "ordinary villager role".

Thats what I have been saying all along and why I said what I did about my thoughts on St.Cronin yesterday. Without getting into unfair play and quoting parts of my initial PM, it basically says in there that its the normal role. I am not suprised at all to see many people with it. The fact so many people have that ordinary role, it leads me to think the information we get from it might not be entirely helpful or complete (ie: my questions to Blade this morning about his urchin he hired). Part of me wonders if the best benefit we can have is by making a complete picture, as parts of this game is like my tombstone game, knowing who was where over serveral days would have really helped the good guys in that game. THats why I started trying to put that together here as well.

[Alan T]

After expenses and all, I end up with 3 shillings a day, but I don't remember earning money if I stay home, that would be nice as 3 shillings doesn't do much... especially with all the hoodlums around town.

Yeah that was my point.. Daddy's statement makes it clear that he is not an ordinary villager. I am pretty sure ordinary villagers will earn money the way you stated.

So with that said, assuming Daddy is not an ordinary villager, why then would he have other ordinary villager abilities.

Maybe its my normal case of finding suspicion in someone and then every statement that they make that doesn't add up just fueling my suspicion here.. but the more DT talks, the less likely I feel i want to move my vote away from him.

Since DT is not an ordinary villager role as its clear, its a much higher percentage chance he is bad than an average random vote. At least in my mind right now.

[Raiders Army]

There's a lot of process here. I'm still undecided where to put my vote tonight. Just a gut feeling, but I'm tending to trust:

hoops
Blade
Barkeep

I have a strange feeling about Alan and Mr. Wednesday. I can't put my finger on what it is, but maybe I can figure it out later.

Everyone else I don't have a good read on at all. It's also hard to concentrate while you're reading 100+ posts and your wife is having a conversation with you about Christmas gifts. ;)

Anyhow, none of my gut feelings are strong at all. So don't take too much stock in what I'm saying. I need to mull this over and get back to you guys later.

[Lorena]

Yeah that was my point.. Daddy's statement makes it clear that he is not an ordinary villager. I am pretty sure ordinary villagers will earn money the way you stated.

So with that said, assuming Daddy is not an ordinary villager, why then would he have other ordinary villager abilities.

Maybe its my normal case of finding suspicion in someone and then every statement that they make that doesn't add up just fueling my suspicion here.. but the more DT talks, the less likely I feel i want to move my vote away from him.

Since DT is not an ordinary villager role as its clear, its a much higher percentage chance he is bad than an average random vote. At least in my mind right now.

So what of LSG then? She seems to have aligned herself with Daddy.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, here is where I worry about releasing location information - we don't know the order that actions are processed.

Example:
1. Local activities - bad guys act before good guys
2. Move to new area
3. Remote activities - bad guys act before good guys

So if I was to give out information on where someone started last night, I could make them a sitting duck for a bad guy kill.

I have no idea about the order of actions, just using the above as an example where the full disclosure of information provides a lot of value for the opposition.

If the group feels that the rewards outweigh the risks I'll reveal all the location information that I possess.

On the topic of location information, I do find it interesting that I saw four people leave a region where MrW lives and he was not one of them. If you figure an even distribution of people across a region, then there are probably six per region. It is possible I would not see people who stay home, but it has been indicated that MrW was on the move yesterday.

Random dice roll or something more sinister?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I don't have absolute trust in the three people I saw at the opium den, but I don't think they're good votes because I think they're not Mr. Hyde.

[Lorena]

Well, I really don't wanna spend too much time here than I need to:

Vote Mr. Wednesday

I think he's trying to backpedal after I outed him.

[path12]

My guess is that this would be considered an "ordinary villager role".

I agree. But there just seems to be more of them than there should be. So either some of the special roles have the same ability as Londoners, or we've got some folks grasping for credibility. I'm trying to figure out which.

[Mr. Wednesday]

hoops, putting a few things together, I'd guess that nobody is going to have the full picture of the comings and goings in a given area, which makes sense to me. Obviously, this will be worse in bad weather.

[Tyrith]

*is a mess all over the carpet*

[Mr. Wednesday]

Well, I really don't wanna spend too much time here than I need to:

Vote Mr. Wednesday

I think he's trying to backpedal after I outed him.
No. I didn't think my complete movements were relevant. As is usually the case, it's not in the collective best interest for everyone to reveal everything about who they are, what they know, and what they were doing last night.

[Alan T]

So what of LSG then? She seems to have aligned herself with Daddy.

If you look at what LSG said, her story matches what I know at least.. 3 shillings a night. I personally just think she didn't look close enough at what DT said and if she re-checks she gains those 3 regardless if she goes out or not. I don't really see her alligning herself with DT right now and wouldn't hold it against her if DT is bad.

[path12]

I don't have absolute trust in the three people I saw at the opium den, but I don't think they're good votes because I think they're not Mr. Hyde.


You saw people at the den? I didn't see anyone. Well, except for the group of women dancing around me singing "Deck the Halls". But I suspect that was the opium talkin'.

[path12]

*is a mess all over the carpet*

A little soda water should take that right out. Or is that wine stains? I can never remember.

[Lorena]

If you look at what LSG said, her story matches what I know at least.. 3 shillings a night. I personally just think she didn't look close enough at what DT said and if she re-checks she gains those 3 regardless if she goes out or not. I don't really see her alligning herself with DT right now and wouldn't hold it against her if DT is bad.

I just re-read her post, you are correct.

Gotta do some stuff around here, so I shall return later.

[Alan T]

Alan, here is where I worry about releasing location information - we don't know the order that actions are processed.

Example:
1. Local activities - bad guys act before good guys
2. Move to new area
3. Remote activities - bad guys act before good guys

So if I was to give out information on where someone started last night, I could make them a sitting duck for a bad guy kill.

I have no idea about the order of actions, just using the above as an example where the full disclosure of information provides a lot of value for the opposition.

If the group feels that the rewards outweigh the risks I'll reveal all the location information that I possess.

On the topic of location information, I do find it interesting that I saw four people leave a region where MrW lives and he was not one of them. If you figure an even distribution of people across a region, then there are probably six per region. It is possible I would not see people who stay home, but it has been indicated that MrW was on the move yesterday.

Random dice roll or something more sinister?

I think if there was some bad activity in your district last night I would be more pressing on who was there. Since it appears most of the activity that happened there was not involved with the night kills, I dont mind leaving it to those people if they want to state they were there or not. Its probably good information for you to collect for later however in case its needed.

I for one know you didn't see me as I went no where near there last night :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah that was my point.. Daddy's statement makes it clear that he is not an ordinary villager. I am pretty sure ordinary villagers will earn money the way you stated.

So with that said, assuming Daddy is not an ordinary villager, why then would he have other ordinary villager abilities.

Maybe its my normal case of finding suspicion in someone and then every statement that they make that doesn't add up just fueling my suspicion here.. but the more DT talks, the less likely I feel i want to move my vote away from him.

Since DT is not an ordinary villager role as its clear, its a much higher percentage chance he is bad than an average random vote. At least in my mind right now.

or maybe you're just upset i burned you last game? why wouldn't someone have a "visit opium den" or "visit prostitute" role even if they were good but not an ordinary villager? nowhere does it say that those are restricted to "ordinary villagers" alan. you're reading into things that shouldn't be read into.

[Alan T]

You saw people at the den? I didn't see anyone. Well, except for the group of women dancing around me singing "Deck the Halls". But I suspect that was the opium talkin'.

I don't think Mr.W was visiting the opium den. I think he was in the area when Fouts was killed outside of the Opium den. The people who came when he shouted for help (Blade, St.cronin, ntndeacon) I am guessing were not partaking in the opium den either.

[Alan T]

or maybe you're just upset i burned you last game? why wouldn't someone have a "visit opium den" or "visit prostitute" role even if they were good but not an ordinary villager? nowhere does it say that those are restricted to "ordinary villagers" alan. you're reading into things that shouldn't be read into.

I'm not really sure how you "burned" me last game as any of the others on my team could verify I was thinking you were probably bad from day 2 on and pushed for you to be our scan target on night 1. :) However thats neither here nor there, its pretty silly to argue my points in this game with things from last game that are irrelevant.

Like I said, I have no idea if you have the ability to visit prostitutes or whatever, but you sure didn't seem to know much about it yesterday. You had a headache, fair enough so today you still have a different role than the rest of us with your story. No matter how you cut it, you don't have the same normal villager role that others have.

Whether that makes you bad or good I don't know and will leave it up to others to make their own judgements, but I just know you aren't the same role as me.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I wouldn't care to guess whether Blade, st.cronin, or ntndeacon were customers, staff, or otherwise at the den, or merely passing nearby. I just know that they came when I called for help.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, what is your gut on people that actually have the same role as you? I'm probably not going to be able to really dig into this question until I get home tonight and I may have deadline challenges going through a few hundred posts in that shortened timetable.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm not really sure how you "burned" me last game as any of the others on my team could verify I was thinking you were probably bad from day 2 on and pushed for you to be our scan target on night 1. :) However thats neither here nor there, its pretty silly to argue my points in this game with things from last game that are irrelevant.

Like I said, I have no idea if you have the ability to visit prostitutes or whatever, but you sure didn't seem to know much about it yesterday. You had a headache, fair enough so today you still have a different role than the rest of us with your story. No matter how you cut it, you don't have the same normal villager role that others have.

Whether that makes you bad or good I don't know and will leave it up to others to make their own judgements, but I just know you aren't the same role as me.

fair enough. that was a cheap-shot and irrelevant. i do have the ability to visit prostitutes or the opium den if i choose. It does seem likely that I don't have the same normal villager role of course. But in a game like this I don't find that that surprising, that I have an advantage here and a disadvantage somewhere else. I earn an extra shilling if I stay in at night to earn money, but if I go out at night I assume additional risk. i don't see why that tweaks you so much. There's a lot of strange roles going on in London here.

I see your point about how the fact that i'm not a "normal" villager makes me more suspicious. But if we lynch everyone who isn't a "normal" villager then we lose all of our special abilities.

[hoopsguy]

Daddy, can I safely assume that your special ability is not simply gaining an extra shilling when you stay in?

[DaddyTorgo]

Daddy, can I safely assume that your special ability is not simply gaining an extra shilling when you stay in?

right. but it's also not guarenteed. i'm not a powerful role, i think i'm more of just a "add a little flavor" kinda role, since I wasn't mentioned as a specific like "powerful type" in the roles+rules. i would reveal more, except it might put me at risk and a clever person might pick up the hints I've dropped (including the big one) and put them together anyways. I'm not sure if my survival matters as far as game mechanics go, but I don't want to die, for purely selfish reasons.

[bulletsponge]

for now
Vote Mr Wednesday

[Swaggs]

I can vouch for Barkeep, as well. I saw him and bulletsponge in my opium-induced dream.

[bulletsponge]

I can vouch for Barkeep, as well. I saw him and bulletsponge in my opium-induced dream.

wow, i feel so much better now that a junkie saw me in a dope induced vision.

[path12]

I can vouch for Barkeep, as well. I saw him and bulletsponge in my opium-induced dream.

Can you vouch for bullet then, also?

[SnDvls]

right. but it's also not guarenteed. i'm not a powerful role, i think i'm more of just a "add a little flavor" kinda role, since I wasn't mentioned as a specific like "powerful type" in the roles+rules. i would reveal more, except it might put me at risk and a clever person might pick up the hints I've dropped (including the big one) and put them together anyways. I'm not sure if my survival matters as far as game mechanics go, but I don't want to die, for purely selfish reasons.


I miss a lot of hints, but I caught yours

you are clear in my book

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm leaning towards Mr. Weds. but I don't want to post "just a vote" so i'll summarize my thoughts later and make my vote official.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Can somebody give a justification for voting for me besides the fact that I happened to be in the Bishopsgate area for reasons I'd rather not go into?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, and please note, NOBODY WAS KILLED THERE!!!

[Tyrith]

wow, i feel so much better now that a junkie saw me in a dope induced vision.

You crack me up sometimes.

[Schmidty]

I have a bit of a problem.

I'm not sure if I should continue in this game. I am having a bit of financial trouble, and recieved a call from Comcast that because I'm 60 days past due, my internet service will be disconnected as soon as today, or as late as 1 week. It really sucks because I wanted to be in this game, and might be able continue for up to a weekm but at the same time, I'm wondering if it might just be better to have Chief Rum find a new player right away.

I'll PM him, and see what he says. :(

[Blade6119]

I wouldn't care to guess whether Blade, st.cronin, or ntndeacon were customers, staff, or otherwise at the den, or merely passing nearby. I just know that they came when I called for help.

I came in response to a cry out, and i can say that i saw cronin and ntndeacon come as well. I dont know who called though, but i can confirm the three of us all seeminly responded to the same cry out.

So in this regard i can confirm your story as correct, though i cannot confirm it was you who cried out. I did see the other two in the crowd though.

[Blade6119]

Blade, what is your gut on people that actually have the same role as you? I'm probably not going to be able to really dig into this question until I get home tonight and I may have deadline challenges going through a few hundred posts in that shortened timetable.
I knew from my initial PM i would have competition with the urchins, so i expected a few similar roles, but how many people claim it astounds me.

I tend to trust Alan since he has been right with almost all of his comments in regards to minor details. LSG and DT worried me, though DT has tried to explain it, in saying they werent sure if they made money if they went out at night and DT claiming 4 gold. These 2 facts deviate from my role, as it was made relatively clear(in my mind) i got my income regardless of what i did.

Since then, i have seen saldana claim the role, swaggs and DC hint at it, and quite frankly i find it likely that its the later players that are bluffing. Bad guys, in a game like this with so much info(and evil) have to be very careful about what they say. Minor details could get them lynched, so they tend to speak in common terms and make agreements to things already posted by others.

Im not sure who is evil, but i really only trust alan in that group right now.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, what are your feelings on Path in that common role?
- he identified himself as a Londoner on his sign-on post #87
- he did not dispute Fouts' claim on the 5 shilling fee for a prostitute (he and BrianD commented on this at the time)
- he has struck me as a player who is pretty frustrated with the number of vanilla villagers

[hoopsguy]

Also, going from memory Dubb was the first person to come forward with the info on opium.

I know I do not have this role - are the urchin/opium/prostitute all functions for the common villager role or am I blending two different roles in my interpretation of actions available to the (unwashed) masses?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Since then, i have seen saldana claim the role, swaggs and DC hint at it, and quite frankly i find it likely that its the later players that are bluffing.
In DC's favor, she spotted me passing through Bishopsgate, where no murders occurred last night. That's not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a point in favor. There are several other people whose movements last night are completely unknown.

[Alan T]

Also, going from memory Dubb was the first person to come forward with the info on opium.

I know I do not have this role - are the urchin/opium/prostitute all functions for the common villager role or am I blending two different roles in my interpretation of actions available to the (unwashed) masses?

Its all one role, you just have finite resources to decide which you want to spend money on. There is no way to be able to fund all of it. Also as people probably realize we are in competition with one another for the services of the orphans.

I think Dubbs is fine in my book, he came out and explained in detail to St.Cronin what I was hinting at last night. I also think path is ok as he hinted to the orphan role before I expanded on it with more hints before Blade's reveal. Path also had other interaction with Fouts yesterday that I liked. I also found Raiders Army ok yesterday but it was rather minorly feeling ok and he hasnt done much that I have caught since to help solidify that or wreck it.

Today I found comments both LSG and Dodgerchick as seemingly ok and believable and don't have huge issues with them.

Right now I'm feeling ok with the group of

Blade
Path
LSG
Dodgerchick
myself
Dubbs

with slightly ok about Raiders.

You know my reasons why I pushed on DaddyTorgo and he has admitted as much as not being ordinary since. Whether that makes him good or bad, heck if I know. I also have weird vibes from Saldana who either entirely missed huge hints about the same role he claims to have or is up to something.

The only big concern i have is the possibility of conversion in this group or the possibility that some bad guys might start off with a similar type role to prevent "PM Sharing" from happening.

I know you asked Blade, but I figured I would provide my 2 cents too.

[Blade6119]

Its all one role, you just have finite resources to decide which you want to spend money on. There is no way to be able to fund all of it. Also as people probably realize we are in competition with one another for the services of the orphans.

I think Dubbs is fine in my book, he came out and explained in detail to St.Cronin what I was hinting at last night. I also think path is ok as he hinted to the orphan role before I expanded on it with more hints before Blade's reveal. Path also had other interaction with Fouts yesterday that I liked. I also found Raiders Army ok yesterday but it was rather minorly feeling ok and he hasnt done much that I have caught since to help solidify that or wreck it.

Today I found comments both LSG and Dodgerchick as seemingly ok and believable and don't have huge issues with them.

Right now I'm feeling ok with the group of

Blade
Path
LSG
Dodgerchick
myself
Dubbs

with slightly ok about Raiders.

You know my reasons why I pushed on DaddyTorgo and he has admitted as much as not being ordinary since. Whether that makes him good or bad, heck if I know. I also have weird vibes from Saldana who either entirely missed huge hints about the same role he claims to have or is up to something.

The only big concern i have is the possibility of conversion in this group or the possibility that some bad guys might start off with a similar type role to prevent "PM Sharing" from happening.

I know you asked Blade, but I figured I would provide my 2 cents too.
Someone is trying hard to clear themselves lol

I was actually going to suggest we ask someone like saldana or DT to tell us this as a way to clear them, but that idea is now useless.

I do believe there could be conversions, but i dont think its happened yet

[Blade6119]

Blade, what are your feelings on Path in that common role?
- he identified himself as a Londoner on his sign-on post #87
- he did not dispute Fouts' claim on the 5 shilling fee for a prostitute (he and BrianD commented on this at the time)
- he has struck me as a player who is pretty frustrated with the number of vanilla villagers

Alan trusts him, i dont yet...or brian...its comments like theirs where they agreed with dubb that throw up red flags to me, as they didnt really add anything to the conversation.

Path was the first to bring up the possibilty of a day action though, so he is higher then brian

[Lorena]

Blade, Brian is dead

[ntndeacon]

DC, I think the point is that there are a lot of people who are aligning themselves in the "ordinary villager role" when it seems that there are quite a few special roles out there.

- 3+ bad guys, based on three kills
- I know of three prostitutes and there is at least one more out there
- We have already seen three ordinary villagers killed during Night 1

Just seems likely that some of the "bad guys" are hiding in plain site by acting like ordinary villagers.

My guess is there is at least 4 bad guys... no prostitutes were killed. I am reading into his role that he can't kill other folks. It may be a bad assumption , but it makes sence to me.

[Blade6119]

VOTE DADDY TORGO

Mr. W wasnt lying about his story in whitechapel, so ill trust him over DT whos role seems to conflict with mine in a few areas

[path12]

I know I do not have this role - are the urchin/opium/prostitute all functions for the common villager role or am I blending two different roles in my interpretation of actions available to the (unwashed) masses?

It is all available to the Londoner role.

[Blade6119]

Blade, Brian is dead

Have you never seen a zombie flick? Those bastards are even more dangerous dead then alive!!

Ok, i admit i screwed up...i guess i should trust brian now that he is dead, though ive got my chainsaw ready in case he tries anything

[hoopsguy]

OK, so I'm going to start pulling some people off my "potential vote" list for today - doesn't mean they are innocent, but it is tough to construct scenarios around 18 people.

DT - role not pinned down, although SnDvls seems to trust him

Schmidty - "head hurts" was initial reaction to receivign role, I initially believed that implied a special role but less sure with complexity of "common" role

Saldana - making a push for common role, suggested he was outbid for urchin by Blade

Lathum - very little feel, although he made a comment about Hoops/Barkeep dispute yesterday that was pretty off-base

Cronin - topic of discussion Day 1, hard to fathom what kind of role he had based on his early comments in game but likely not the "common" role

LSG - very little feel

MrW - another person who is unlikely to have "common" role. Want to look harder at him in near future in terms of his location for last night - both his claims and assertions of others

SnDvls - very little feel

Dodgerchick - making a play for "common" role?

Raiders - very little feel

Swaggs - co-leader in clubhouse right now with Lathum for my suspicions

NTN - do people think he is trying to adopt "common" role?

[Blade6119]

Id be willing to vote for swaggs, raiders, DC, Lathum, or schmidty right now...not counting DT and sndvls since i didnt realize sn was trying to clear DT

[path12]

The only big concern i have is the possibility of conversion in this group or the possibility that some bad guys might start off with a similar type role to prevent "PM Sharing" from happening.

This is where I'm at right now. (well, not necessarily the conversion aspect but the rest of it) I think it is a real possibility that at least some of the bad guys have the same abilities as the Londoners. I don't doubt that there's been some piling on in the claims for villagers, but it just seems to me that if just the Londoners have those abilities that it might be a little too easy to form trust circles.

[Blade6119]

This is where I'm at right now. (well, not necessarily the conversion aspect but the rest of it) I think it is a real possibility that at least some of the bad guys have the same abilities as the Londoners. I don't doubt that there's been some piling on in the claims for villagers, but it just seems to me that if just the Londoners have those abilities that it might be a little too easy to form trust circles.

Well, tonight will be telling...if we continue to have 3 kills a night i can see us having all of these powers

[SnDvls]

Id be willing to vote for swaggs, raiders, DC, Lathum, or schmidty right now...not counting DT and sndvls since i didnt realize sn was trying to clear DT

of those on yours and hoops list I'd be willing to go
Raiders, Lathum or Schmidty

[SnDvls]

dola - not really clearing him, just that I'm pretty sure I have his role pegged from his hints.

[SnDvls]

double dola - I have no confirmation on DT being good or bad, just I feel from his hints he is good and what his role is being good...hope that clears it up some

[Lorena]

Id be willing to vote for swaggs, raiders, DC, Lathum, or schmidty right now...not counting DT and sndvls since i didnt realize sn was trying to clear DT

Okay, so why me?

[ntndeacon]

I don't think Mr.W was visiting the opium den. I think he was in the area when Fouts was killed outside of the Opium den. The people who came when he shouted for help (Blade, St.cronin, ntndeacon) I am guessing were not partaking in the opium den either.

I wasn't at the opium den. I only came over there with the shouts. (Just confirming what you are suspecting Alan. :) ) Prior to that I was in Cavell Street.

[hoopsguy]

I can confirm seeing NTN at Cavell Street.

However, that seems a little weird to me - were you visiting Cavell Street? I recognize that answering this may end up tying you to your home district, but if you were visiting then I can not draw conclusive information on any of the four people on my list. Or I need to start drawing other conclusions from it ...

[Lorena]

So I have:

DaddyTorgo (4)- AlanT, Barkeep49, Blade6119, Dubb93
Mr. W (4)- Bulletsponge, Dodgerchick, LoneStarGirl, SnDvls

20 of us left so we need 7 votes to lynch right?

[Izulde]

Lynching DC would be a mistake.

[Izulde]

eine meenie minie mo.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[Blade6119]

Lathum, any good reason i shouldnt vote for you?

[Lathum]

Hoops, I'm not really sure why you suspect me, I said I skimmed through the thread yesterday and was exausted after the 10 hour drive from PA to Ohio then worked all day yesterday. I worked all day today as well, that is why I am under the radar this game.

There is someone who I believe can confirm my whereabouts last night but I would rather not say who. I think to many potential roles are getting outed which usually equates into helping the bad guys.

For now I am going to trust DC, she usually plays straightforward. Plus Mr. Wed suggested we all say what section we live in at the start of the game then backed off really quick.

VOTE MR WEDNESDAY

[ntndeacon]

I can confirm seeing NTN at Cavell Street.

However, that seems a little weird to me - were you visiting Cavell Street? I recognize that answering this may end up tying you to your home district, but if you were visiting then I can not draw conclusive information on any of the four people on my list. Or I need to start drawing other conclusions from it ...

I was visiting Cavell Street.

[Lathum]

Lathum, any good reason i shouldnt vote for you?

any good reason you should?

[Blade6119]

any good reason you should?

Your one of the few people who arent claiming to be a normal villager...that prob. makes you special on some manner, for better or worse i dont know.

[hoopsguy]

OK, can one of the other players who responded to Tyrith's murder (Blade?) indicate if you were visiting another district before checking out the murder scene? If I get a 2nd confirmation on this I'll release the names of all four people I saw in Cavell last night.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, any insight you would care to provide about your night activities last night?

[Blade6119]

OK, can one of the other players who responded to Tyrith's murder (Blade?) indicate if you were visiting another district before checking out the murder scene?
I was in another district as well before i heared the cry out

[Lathum]

Lathum, any insight you would care to provide about your night activities last night?

Not really, I know there is a certain lady of the night that peddels her wares in my district but in the spirt of protecting her I would rather keep quiet.

[ntndeacon]

Well I am about to be gone til after Lynch. (dress rehearsal for an opera.) So I will go ahead and throw out my vote. I think that Mr. Wed Story makes more sense to me. So I will go with the other.
Vote Daddy Torgo

[hoopsguy]

OK, the people I saw in Cavell last night were:

NTN
Cronin
Blade
Lathum

My PM indicates that they soon leave. Reviewing it in light of the news that both NTN and Blade started in other districts does seem to validate the idea that this was not their point of origin (trying hard not to directly quote here).

Now, time to go double-check this list against MrW's list from earlier about who responded. I believe it was three of the four people above ...

[Blade6119]

OK, the people I saw in Cavell last night were:

NTN
Cronin
Blade
Lathum

My PM indicates that they soon leave. Reviewing it in light of the news that both NTN and Blade started in other districts does seem to validate the idea that this was not their point of origin (trying hard not to directly quote here).

Now, time to go double-check this list against MrW's list from earlier about who responded. I believe it was three of the four people above ...

So the question we must now ask is why did NTN, Cronin, and myself all hear and react to the cry out from mr. w, but lathum did not...thats a pretty interesting question knowing all 3 of us who ended up in the crowd in white-chapel all came from cavell

[hoopsguy]

I came upon the end of the attack on Fouts. Unfortunately, I did not recognize his killer, but I'm quite certain it was not Blade, st.cronin, nor ntndeacon as they responded to my call for help.

The only thing I think that this definitively determines is that none of the three is Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde.

I saw four people leave Cavell. Three of those people answered MrW's call. Lathum is the other person.

[hoopsguy]

VOTE LATHUM

[Mr. Wednesday]

For now I am going to trust DC, she usually plays straightforward. Plus Mr. Wed suggested we all say what section we live in at the start of the game then backed off really quick.

As you will note, I don't distrust her, but I don't understand her (or others) reasoning for voting me.

I backed off because I thought a little about what you said and decided there was some merit to it.

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE DADDY TORGO

VOTE LATHUM

[LoneStarGirl]

Okay guys, sorry I am dumb. Alant, I HATE when you are right. I don't have to stay in to get my 3 shillings. But I did anyway. Daddy seems suspicious to me, but I dont think my suspicions are solid enough to vote for him. However, as you all know I am very PRO lynch, so if we need one more vote I will bounce off Wednesday and jump on Daddy. I just think we need to be looking in different directions.

[LoneStarGirl]

Blade? are you Hoops' follower now? You give no reason to vote for lathum, you just do it. Lathum has been playing a little under the radar for him, but nothing has jumped out at me about him.

And hoops, you are a hell of a player my friend, but something with you isnt jiving with me. But i am not going to push it just yet.... Maybe you will come clean sooner than later

[Lorena]

Well, I'm a little torn here. Some people in my CoT are voting for DaddyTorgo; I don't really see a case against him so it doesn't seem right to vote for him.

Although I was told that Mr. W was seen passing through Bishopsgate, I wasn't told he committed any crime; he may have, I don't know, but I did notice that one person whom I don't trust is voting for Mr. W as well.

[Alan T]

I have to head out for a dinner appointment with a vendor. I don't honestly know when I'll be back. It might very well be after the lynch unfortunatly. I'll keep my vote where it seems to count the most right now on DT. With the conversation hoops and blade are having it seems to be interesting and I would consider Lathum, but I dont want to move my vote if there isn't a great reason to yet.

I'll try to get back but not sure I can. Good luck all.

[Lathum]

I was searching for a prostitute when I realized I had been pick pocketed, I went off to look for the person who stole my money since obtaining a ladies services were out of the question.

I find it odd that I wasn't at the scene of the murder yet I am being suspected?

[hoopsguy]

LSG, I think I'm being pretty forthcoming with the information I learn - when it does not jeopardize other players - although less so about my role.

I tried to protect Barkeep earlier today because I had very good reasons to believe he was a prostitute. Absolutely no reason for me to do that as a bad guy.

I tried to protect the information about the four people I saw last night in Cavell because I was worried about indicating where they lived - I felt like that was their information to reveal, not mine. But once I learned that at least two of them were coming from another location first I provided that information.

LoneStarGirl - let me know what actions I've taken that concern you and I'll try to address them.

[Blade6119]

Blade? are you Hoops' follower now? You give no reason to vote for lathum, you just do it. Lathum has been playing a little under the radar for him, but nothing has jumped out at me about him.

And hoops, you are a hell of a player my friend, but something with you isnt jiving with me. But i am not going to push it just yet.... Maybe you will come clean sooner than later

Did you read? There were 4 of us hoops confirms that were in cavell. A cry came out from white-chapel from mr. w for help after finding a dead body...NTN, Cronin, and I all left cavell and went to the death scene(in a crowd, which mr. w never mentioned). Lathum, for some reason, did not come at the sound of the cry for help. Thats a pretty big reason

[Blade6119]

But once I learned that at least two of them were coming from another location first I provided that information.

Hoops, i went to white-chapel from cavell at the sound of the cries. I think you have my movements a little reversed there.

[path12]

And hoops, you are a hell of a player my friend, but something with you isnt jiving with me. But i am not going to push it just yet.... Maybe you will come clean sooner than later

Is that a hunch or actual knowledge?

[Lathum]

The clouds were but a false read yesterday as the night wore on. It would be largely clear, with the moon shining bright.

When the sun rises a few hours later, it will reveal a deadly night in Whitechapel.

On Whitechapel Road, BrianD lies dead in an alley, apparently beaten to death. He has no money, so it appears he was robbed. He is but a common Londoner.

Just a block away along Whitechapel Road is a gruesome sight even worse than the one the townsfolk saw the night before. Not far from the back exit of the Opium Den, bloodied body parts are strewn about and the walls are splashed red. It takes some time to find the head--or what's his left of it. Fouts was killed last night, as well, in a most brutal fashion. Another Londoner bought it here.

The horror was just truly sinking in when a cry came out from the Commercial Road section. A crowd is gathered at the entrance to a flat with a door that appears to have been torn down. The worst sight is yet to come. It appears that Tyrith has met his end in his own home! His body is ripped and torn, covered with scratches, and there is blood everywhere. It is clear he was sleeping when he was attacked.

Tyrith was a Londoner, too.

The mob is off to a hot start now. They have lost three good townsfolk, and they're looking for blood!

DAY TWO BEGINS. THE DEADLINE IS 10 P.M. EST/7 P.M. PDT, WHICH WILL BE THE REGULAR TIME MOST NIGHTS IN THIS GAME GOING FORWARD.

so hoops or blade, explain to me how I could be guilty if I was in a district where there were no murders?

As usual Blade's first suspect doesn't catch so he latch's onto another one...

[path12]

I find it odd that I wasn't at the scene of the murder yet I am being suspected?

If I understand correctly, the murder had already happened when the cry was made. You wouldn't really be expected to be there after the fact if you did in fact make the kill.

[LoneStarGirl]

More of a hunch right now. I might be digging too deep path, so i am going to ignore it for a couple more days :)

[Blade6119]

so hoops or blade, explain to me how I could be guilty if I was in a district where there were no murders?

As usual Blade's first suspect doesn't catch so he latch's onto another one...

NTN, Cronin, and myself were all in cavell just like you...yet we easily wound up in white-chapel. Note, we went at the first murder. There were 2 other murders, oh which you were very capable of moving just like we did to go complete.

As usual, you defend yourself by trying to slander me

[LoneStarGirl]

This is the type of game that needs a spreadsheet. I am getting a tad mixed up on who did what where

[Mr. Wednesday]

I find it odd that I wasn't at the scene of the murder yet I am being suspected?

Under the circumstances, not being spotted at the scene makes you a member of the suspect list. I didn't recognize the killer, and the circumstances of the people that I did see leads me to believe that they weren't him.

[Lathum]

I'm not trying to slander you, I'm mearly saying it's a stretch to assume I was in whitechapel, ran to cavell, then to commercial then back to cavell, it makes no sense. If I was guilty the obvious move would be try and blend in with the pack, instead I went to find my money so I could get some tail...

[Blade6119]

I'm not trying to slander you, I'm mearly saying it's a stretch to assume I was in whitechapel, ran to cavell, then to commercial then back to cavell, it makes no sense. If I was guilty the obvious move would be try and blend in with the pack, instead I went to find my money so I could get some tail...
Two things, im not saying you were in white-chapel and commerical..if your a killer, only one would be needed. Second, you go to find your money at night?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I should elaborate on my comment in #680, that list is not a short one, I'm just pointing out that the idea that not being seen somehow makes you less of a suspect is a faulty one. So far, only one or two avowed customers of the opium den have been placed in the Whitechapel Rd area aside from myself and the folks who came to help after Fouts was slain.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'm not trying to slander you, I'm mearly saying it's a stretch to assume I was in whitechapel, ran to cavell, then to commercial then back to cavell, it makes no sense. If I was guilty the obvious move would be try and blend in with the pack, instead I went to find my money so I could get some tail...

Now I'm confused... when were you placed in Commercial?

[path12]

More of a hunch right now. I might be digging too deep path, so i am going to ignore it for a couple more days :)

Cool. I was just curious because I hadn't gotten any vibes from hoops thus far.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Did you read? There were 4 of us hoops confirms that were in cavell. A cry came out from white-chapel from mr. w for help after finding a dead body...NTN, Cronin, and I all left cavell and went to the death scene(in a crowd, which mr. w never mentioned). Lathum, for some reason, did not come at the sound of the cry for help. Thats a pretty big reason

There were others present, but none that I recognized. The way that it was described, I wouldn't have said that "crowd" was the feel that I got, but I'm sure that's just a matter of details.

[Lathum]

Now I'm confused... when were you placed in Commercial?

I wasn't. I was stressing the point that I was in a district where there was no murder and It would be a stretch to assume I would be running from district to district and be able to kill anyone.

[Blade6119]

I wasn't. I was stressing the point that I was in a district where there was no murder and It would be a stretch to assume I would be running from district to district and be able to kill anyone.

I think everyone can agree people have gone from one district to another, and Mr. W claims to have been in 3 last night. Why is it so much of a stretch to think you left cavell for white chapel or commerical, killed someone, and returned home. Im sure you not implying people can go visit hookers in other districts, do their thing, and then return home, but you couldnt do a similar action path. If you are claiming that, thats just blatantly wrong

[Lathum]

you go to find your money at night?

As soon as I realized it was stolen from me. Without quoting my PM I briskly walked into an alley to persue the thief, perhaps hoops can confirm this is somewhat accurate, If I didn't run to white chappel where did I go?

[Blade6119]

If I didn't run to white chappel where did I go?

Thats the million dollar question, now isnt it?

[Lathum]

dola- I have to go out to dinner with someone from out of town and will be gone past the deadline. People can vote how they want but it is a pretty flimsy reason that I have explained the best I can. IMO the killer would have rushed to the scene of the crime to try and blend in with the others.

Just a theory then I have to go, Mr. Wed, maybe none of the people who showed up when you called were people you would assume commited the crime because one of them already turned back into Dr. Jeckyl?

[path12]

I was searching for a prostitute when I realized I had been pick pocketed, I went off to look for the person who stole my money since obtaining a ladies services were out of the question.

So, BrianD was robbed. Lathum says he was robbed. Didn't DC or someone also say they were robbed?

Do we just assume that the urchin night move is to steal? Can Fagin send them all out? Three kills and three robberies seems like overkill.

All in all, I'm having problems with Lathum's story. He first says that a prostitute can vouch for him, but then says that he was robbed on the way there and then went to look for the person who stole the money. Now I haven't been robbed, so I can't say what Chief's mechanic is there, but I know that I don't have any actions that would involve being able to try and track my money down if I was robbed.

I'm still gonna wait to vote because I want to go back and check a couple more things when I get some time, but I'm strongly leaning that direction right now.

[Lathum]

path, I knew hoops could vouch I was in that district since it was him (her?) I was going to see.

[Blade6119]

Alan claimed to be robbed i believe..and brian being robbed was just to let us know fagin killed him i believe, not a seperate mugging then kill

[Blade6119]

path, I knew hoops could vouch I was in that district since it was him (her?) I was going to see.

You were going to hoops because he is a prostitue your saying?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Just a theory then I have to go, Mr. Wed, maybe none of the people who showed up when you called were people you would assume commited the crime because one of them already turned back into Dr. Jeckyl?

I can't rule that possibility out. My sense is that it's not the case, but given the sequence of events it's not impossible.

[Lathum]

ok, now i am leaving. I don't believe there is a mechanic for getting my money back, I believe that was in my PM to account for my where abouts last night, like I said, I assume hoops can confirm where I went.

[DaddyTorgo]

i don't understand what i've done that seems suspicious, so i guess I'll just try to stop doing whatever it is. there is really a lot going on with all the different districts AND the tons of players. It's a lot of information to try to process for someone still relatively new, that's all.

At this point, although the suspiscion of Lathum has raised my eyebrows and made me think we might have something there, in the spirit of self-preservation I have to

VOTE MR. WEDNESDAY

although this will of course change if I should be out of the woods, likely to Lathum from what I recall so far. I'll be here on-and-off till lynch

[Mr. Wednesday]

I am again going to challenge anybody aside from DT that's voting for me to provide a justification for the vote.

[Blade6119]

ok, now i am leaving. I don't believe there is a mechanic for getting my money back, I believe that was in my PM to account for my where abouts last night, like I said, I assume hoops can confirm where I went.

Hoops is the guy who started the voting for you and presented reasons why you might be bad...to expect him to now defend you is rather odd.

[Lorena]

So, BrianD was robbed. Lathum says he was robbed. Didn't DC or someone also say they were robbed?

Yes, I was robbed. I had to use some of the money I had replace what was stolen.

[LoneStarGirl]

anybody with a vote count?

[Lorena]

I am again going to challenge anybody aside from DT that's voting for me to provide a justification for the vote.

Funny you should ask because I was just looking over the quotes that made me suspect you:

I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.

In case it's not clear, I'm not denying being in Bishopsgate, it's just that my reason for being there wasn't because it was on the way to Whitechapel Rd.

Kinda seems like you were retracting your statement after I mentioned that I was told you were passing by there.

[Mr. Wednesday]

What we keep coming back to is, I admitted to being in Bishopsgate, have refused to discuss my business there, attempted to clarify to Alan that it wasn't a case of passing through on the way to somewhere else, AND NONE OF THE THREE CRIMES WAS COMMITTED THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

This is insane.

[Lorena]

I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.

anybody with a vote count?

Mr. Wednesday (6)- Bulletsponge, DaddyTorgo, Dodgerchick, Lathum, LoneStarGirl, SnDvls
DaddyTorgo (5)- AlanT, Barkeep49, Dubb93, Izulde, Ntndeacon
Lathum (2) - blade, hoopsguy
barkeep (1) - st.cronin

[Lorena]

dammit, that stupid quote keep appearing

[Mr. Wednesday]

I mean, I'd understand if this involved me being spotted in Commercial or Whitechapel Rd, but to accuse me because of a misunderstanding over being spotted in Bishopsgate, even though nothing at all happened there last night?

[Lorena]

I mean, I'd understand if this involved me being spotted in Commercial or Whitechapel Rd, but to accuse me because of a misunderstanding over being spotted in Bishopsgate, even though nothing at all happened there last night?

I know nothing happened in Bishopsgate, I just felt you were trying to backtrack your statement of not being there when you were seen passing by.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Well, Lathum's already voting for me, so it won't hurt me any to put a vote on him.

VOTE Lathum

[Mr. Wednesday]

I know nothing happened in Bishopsgate, I just felt you were trying to backtrack your statement of not being there when you were seen passing by.

Show me the post where I said I wasn't there.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Hint, you can't, because I didn't.

I clarified that I was in Bishopsgate on private business, rather than in transit to someplace else.

[dubb93]

I have a start to a circle of trust. Thus far it would include:

Hoops--I think I know what role he is playing

Blade--From the information he has presented, IE bribing the urchin, and the overal vibe I have gotten from him

Barkeep--I think I know his role as well

AlanT--I'm very confident he is playing with the same cards I was delt.

I may still be a little rusty, and there may be something that I missed that I usually wouldn't, but for right now this is what I'm working with in my COT.

Of the three suspects, I suspect Mr. Wednesday the least. There is just nothing there. The whole reason for voting him revolved around Blade, and Blade has since moved his vote. This means either Blade re-read his PM and realized he was wrong, or he was just never really convinced.

I have nothing on DT at all. This is a bad thing for him. I have a little bit of a read on almost everyone in the game, DT is not one of them.

Lathum is interesting. Hoops is nearly convinced he is bad, and Lathum was the only one in the district who did not answer Wednesday's call. With actual evidence against Lathum, I think I may change my vote.

Of these four, they have voted for:

Blade and Hoops both on Lathum

Alan and Barkeep are on DaddyTorgo

Again, Alan is playing with the same cards I am, so I'm pretty sure he has no inside information, as for Barkeep, he would only know about the johns that have contacted him and possibly the other ladys of the night. So I think there is more hard evidence against Lathum than DT so I will...

UNVOTE DADDYTORGO

VOTE LATHUM

[dubb93]

I hope that long ramble made sense to someone out there.

[Lorena]

Hint, you can't, because I didn't.

I clarified that I was in Bishopsgate on private business, rather than in transit to someplace else.

Jesus Christ, give me a minute will ya?

This was Alan's inquiry:

oh one other question I had...

can someone tell me how you go from cavell st (to the east), to Whitechapel rd (center of town) by going through bishopgate district (to the west)?

And your response:

I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.
I think DC is dropping the "to get to Whitechapel" part and only reading "I wasn't going through Bishopsgate"

The correct way to read this is, I wasn't going through Bishopsgate to get to Whitechapel.

I was in Bishopsgate on personal business, rather than in transit to Whitechapel.

[dubb93]

I think DC is dropping the "to get to Whitechapel" part and only reading "I wasn't going through Bishopsgate"

The correct way to read this is, I wasn't going through Bishopsgate to get to Whitechapel.

I was in Bishopsgate on personal business, rather than in transit to Whitechapel.

I want to know what this private business was.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, particularly, pay attention to the post to which I was replying. Alan expressed confusion about why I would be in Bishopsgate if I were traveling from Cavell to Whitechapel.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I want to know what this private business was.
I don't think it's appropriate to discuss at this time.

[dubb93]

I don't think it's appropriate to discuss at this time.

Well, OK, but you are on your deathbed. Right now I believe you have a two vote lead in the lynching race.

[saldana]

I have a day action as well..i can bribe an urchin to spy on a sector one tiem a game. It cost me all of my gold, but i figured night 1 was a good time to expect quite a few kills. I did, and sent him to commerical. He told me about the WW who killed tyrith in his sleep, and told me the only other player in the area was barkeep. So i think you can imagine who my suspect is today. From the urchin i know he was in commercial last night, i know the WW killed tyrith in commerical last night, and the PM said barkeep was the only other player there. So i take that to mean he killed tyrith.

I should have sent him to white-chapel with the 2 kills since it was a one time gig, but i figured the bad guys would avoid the most populous street. I got lucky with one though. Now i have no gold, and i make it back at only 2 gold a day so it will be 5 days until i can hire another spy. But i figured it better i say this now then die with this knowledge

ok, i was rereading things from yesterday looking for things alan said i missed, and noticed this post from Blade.

if blade spent all his money on an urchin for last night, what was he doing out at the same time?

hookers and opium cost 5 shillings a piece, and Alan and I have both stated that we tried to buy the urchin....i bid 6 and didnt get it, so if blade started with the same 10 shillings I had, why was he out at all last night, since he spent didnt have the cash to do anything. (We know he was out since he went to the alarm raised by mr W.)

hopefully he will be back to answer this for me.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Well, OK, but you are on your deathbed. Right now I believe you have a two vote lead in the lynching race.

I think we both have enough experience to appreciate the reasons why I'm trying to avoid going into more detail.

(I should say the possible reasons... not all of them are good... but under the circumstances, putting me up as a suspect is incredibly bad judgement.)

[Mr. Wednesday]

Well, OK, but you are on your deathbed.
It's 6-4-4, which isn't enough to lynch. Still plenty of time to swing things without going into unnecessary detail.

[Lorena]

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother, I thought this game would be different because of the tiny nugget of knowledge I might get; but it proves that I'm completely clueless once again and I guess I'm grasping for whatever. Every single freaking game, someone comes out with the same thing, "I know something but can't disclose it" and time and time again, I fall for it... why? Why? That's WW for ya, yes, I know.

Unvote Mr. Wednesday
Vote Bulletsponge

I'll be out for a while.

[Raiders Army]

After reading through what was posted this afternoon, I don't think Mr. Wednesday or Daddy Torgo is the person we should go for. Hoops has good instincts so I'll go with

VOTE LATHUM

[saldana]

another point on blades post that i quoted above....first he says he can pay an urchin to spy on a sector once per game....then he says he can do it again in 5 days, after earning 2 shillings per day

for those of you that are saying that i am just latching onto the normal londoner information other people are providing, i have a question..........is you ability to hire an urchin only a one time action...i know mine isnt...i can try to hire one each day if i have the money for it (how would i know that if it wasnt really my role)....i also earn 3 shillings a day, as i think everyone else has said they do (i dont expect any one to give me any slack for this statement, since numerous other people have already made it)

[dubb93]

It's 6-4-4, which isn't enough to lynch. Still plenty of time to swing things without going into unnecessary detail.

I respect that and I think I'm starting to place your role. However I think you are mistaken on the lynch number. We have 20 players left. We need 1/3 of that, 20 divided by 3 is 6.67 repeating of course.

This vote is subject to only one rule--the lynch candidate must have at least one-third of the available voters, rounded down to the next whole number.

So unless I am mistaken that rounds the lynch number down to 6. Someone double check that please.

[saldana]

I respect that and I think I'm starting to place your role. However I think you are mistaken on the lynch number. We have 20 players left. We need 1/3 of that, 20 divided by 3 is 6.67 repeating of course.



So unless I am mistaken that rounds the lynch number down to 6. Someone double check that please.

we started at 24, sent JE to an orphanage, then we lost 3 last night, which makes 20....your math works out to me.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Er, right. Anyway, I still think it's tight enough right now.

[SnDvls]

unvote Mr. W
vote Lathum

in light of the more detailed info from Hoops

[DaddyTorgo]

FWIW Weds. I don't believe that you are bad, and there are several roles that would lead to him being out and about at night in this game people. So I don't see him being "out and about" as something sinister.

I still have a couple hours to change my vote and I can feel my caffeine denial headache coming on. But I think that this point by dubb is interesting:

Lathum was the only one in the district who did not answer Wednesday's call.

Seems like there might be something there. Back in a bit (hour tops)

[dubb93]

But I think that this point by dubb is interesting:

Lathum was the only one in the district who did not answer Wednesday's call.

Seems like there might be something there. Back in a bit (hour tops)

I would add that that information came directly from Hoops.

[st.cronin]

My father has had a heart attack. I am not officially dropping out of the game, yet, but my participation will be limited for a bit.

[saldana]

wow cronin, that's a lot more important that WW, I hope everything turns out ok

[saldana]

can i ask all the people that are currently in the thread why none of you have commented on the discrpancies i pointed out regarding blade


the only reason i havent voted for him is because i would like to hear from him first.

[bulletsponge]

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother, I thought this game would be different because of the tiny nugget of knowledge I might get; but it proves that I'm completely clueless once again and I guess I'm grasping for whatever. Every single freaking game, someone comes out with the same thing, "I know something but can't disclose it" and time and time again, I fall for it... why? Why? That's WW for ya, yes, I know.

Unvote Mr. Wednesday
Vote Bulletsponge

I'll be out for a while.


Grr why me?

Unvote me of the fluffy bunny gets it! http://www.smileyhut.com/weapons/jason2.gifhttp://www.smileyhut.com/animals/animals_bunny1.gif

[bulletsponge]

My father has had a heart attack. I am not officially dropping out of the game, yet, but my participation will be limited for a bit.

aww thats bad news. god i hope hes going to be ok

[dubb93]

My father has had a heart attack. I am not officially dropping out of the game, yet, but my participation will be limited for a bit.

Thats horrible news, I hope he is ok and everything turns out well.

[SnDvls]

take care St. C

[saldana]

i was hoping for some additonal input on my blade observations, but since no one seems to care, i will go with the other story that has holes in it

vote lathum

[Swaggs]

Back and catching up....

[DaddyTorgo]

god Cronin. I think the prayers of London good and (i would assume) bad are with you! hope everything is alright

oh yeah and i'm just leaving for coffee now. damm my madden Texans for that 27-24 squeaker over LJ and the Chiefs keeping me home.

[Swaggs]

Can you vouch for bullet then, also?

In my dream, I saw them exchange money and Barkeep lead him away, into a room.

[Raiders Army]

I'm sorry st. cronin. I hope that he's okay.

[Izulde]

Sorry to hear that, cronin. :(

The Lathum argument makes sense to me.

UNVOTE DADDYTORGO

VOTE LATHUM

[hoopsguy]

As soon as I realized it was stolen from me. Without quoting my PM I briskly walked into an alley to persue the thief, perhaps hoops can confirm this is somewhat accurate, If I didn't run to white chappel where did I go?

Lathum, I know you were in Cavell and that you left Cavell. I don't have any other information on the matter, but I do find it curious that the other people I saw in Cavell who left were all seen by Mr. Wednesday. That is an awfully big part of my motivation in voting for you.

path, I knew hoops could vouch I was in that district since it was him (her?) I was going to see.

Hmmm, I'm not sure what to make of this. I know that I do not have the ability to declare that I'm going to find a specific person - instead I can declare what district to visit. Do other people have the ability to specify a person instead of a zone with their actions? Or is this just an attempt to get me to admit to a role that I may or may not have?

[Mr. Wednesday]

saldana, I noted your observation.

As I recall, Blade isn't going to be back until later.

[Blade6119]

saldana, I noted your observation.

As I recall, Blade isn't going to be back until later.

Im here for the next hour, but i have to write a paper in that time span and really need to focus on it...anyone have a question that cant wait until late tonight?

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, I agree there are some inconsistencies to be found in Blade's versions of how his mechanic works. But he was the first person to come out with the urchin ability that has been widely commented upon since that time. That carried a decent amount of weight for me. Enough that I, for now, will treat incongruent statements from Blade as in keeping with his sometimes wild/erratic play as a good guy.

I think it is a point worth scrutinizing further if there is sufficient push-back from people claiming the same role. Dubb, Alan, Path, others ... your thoughts?

[Swaggs]

My father has had a heart attack. I am not officially dropping out of the game, yet, but my participation will be limited for a bit.

Sorry to hear that. :(

I hope he will be alright.

[Swaggs]

Hmmm, I'm not sure what to make of this. I know that I do not have the ability to declare that I'm going to find a specific person - instead I can declare what district to visit. Do other people have the ability to specify a person instead of a zone with their actions? Or is this just an attempt to get me to admit to a role that I may or may not have?

I can only decide which area of the district to visit.